Where does DLAW fit?

[Jake]

Fit what? This team has a plan?

The Cowboys are the Jones family living out a fantasy. If they knew what they were doing we wouldn't have had the meaningless 25 years we've had since Jimmy's leftovers got us SB ring five,

The Cowboys are a rudderless ship. Stop expecting things and you'll be a lot happier. Savor the memories, because these morons aren't winning anything.

 

[Jarntt]

Quinn won’t be running a 34… it’ll be a 43 under, which looks like a 34 to the average fan.

The DE’s in the 43 under don’t need to be as big as a 34 DE. One DE is a LEO, which doesn’t even have to be as big as a normal 43 DE, mainly because of his alignment (9). The other DE, called a Big End much of the time in the 43 under, needs to be somewhat bigger than a regular 43 strong side DE… but not as big as a 34 end. They must be strong against the run, which Lawrence is.

Having said all of that, it is a good question where exactly Lawrence will be used. They could use him as a LEO some but he is at the upper end of the size scale for that position. Gregory is pretty much a textbook example of a LEO and should spend his time there. Lawrence could be used to spell Gregory at times there though.

.

Here is where I'm not following. I'm not saying you are wrong just that I think it plays out a little differently. What I remembered of the 4-3 Under is a little different than you seem to be explaining from a role perspective. I agree the "big end" is in between a 4-3 DE and 3-4 DE (in role and size) and that's because he generally needs to hold up two blocks (as does the NT) on that side which means Tank is too small to play this position. It would also waste our best player IMO and get him beaten up on run downs. On the other side your 3 tech and Leo are going to be in more one on one battles and in more disruptive roles. The Leo puts his hand in the dirt and that is Tank's spot IMO in this defense. The SAM will be standing up. Tank isn't going to be standing up IMO.

 

[JBond]

Quinn won’t be running a 34… it’ll be a 43 under, which looks like a 34 to the average fan.

The DE’s in the 43 under don’t need to be as big as a 34 DE. One DE is a LEO, which doesn’t even have to be as big as a normal 43 DE, mainly because of his alignment (9). The other DE, called a Big End much of the time in the 43 under, needs to be somewhat bigger than a regular 43 strong side DE… but not as big as a 34 end. They must be strong against the run, which Lawrence is.

Having said all of that, it is a good question where exactly Lawrence will be used. They could use him as a LEO some but he is at the upper end of the size scale for that position. Gregory is pretty much a textbook example of a LEO and should spend his time there. Lawrence could be used to spell Gregory at times there though.

He will probably be used at Big End a good portion of the time (when in the 43 under) because he provides a good pass rush while also being solid against the run. but that is speculation.

The big end will and can line up anywhere from the 5, down to the 4 and even the 4i, which is inside the OT. I would imagine if they are in the 43 under and they think it could be a pass, then Lawrence would play Big End as a 5. In running situations, they’ll probably use a guy like Urban or Watkins in the 4 or 4i to better shut down the OT/OG bubble. It’ll depend on the situation.

Of course, in the nickel, which will be an estimated 60-70% of the time according to Quinn… they will really be in a 4 man line and Lawrence will be playing the SDE that he’s been playing for years, so he’ll just be playing like normal for him.

Perhaps in some heavy defensive sets they’ll put Lawrence at LEO and Urban at Big End to better stop the run. That may or may not happen. But again the base 43 under will only be 30-40% of the time.

DeMarcus might even go inside and rush from the 3 as a DT. Quinn will use two 3’s in some pass rush sets.

Ultimately, we will just have to wait and see what Quinn does with Lawrence, but I’d expect something along the lines of what I just described. There’s a lot of ways to use him.

I was going to say almost the exact same thing, nearly word for word, but you beat me to it.

Great post and very informative. Thanks!

 

[CouchCoach]

Lawrence is the best and most consistent D player, he will be fine. He is one player no one can accuse of quitting and coasting during the season.

I used to take the easy way out with him because of his contract and expected more from him. Then I watched him, only him, in two back to back games and I changed my opinion. He was relentless in his attack and the most doubled player in the front 7. He just didn't have much help. It's like having a WR that draws doubles all the time but they can't make the D pay for that.

I didn't like Lawrence for that Hot Boyz nonsense but he could be a great player with some help. He is, by far, the best player on this defense and Quinn is going to try and exploit his talent. Quinn just needs to get the OC's worrying about more players than just Lawrence. Any one player can be erased.

 

[AsthmaField]

Here is where I'm not following. I'm not saying you are wrong just that I think it plays out a little differently. What I remembered of the 4-3 Under is a little different than you seem to be explaining from a role perspective. I agree the "big end" is in between a 4-3 DE and 3-4 DE (in role and size) and that's because he generally needs to hold up two blocks (as does the NT) on that side which means Tank is too small to play this position. It would also waste our best player IMO and get him beaten up on run downs. On the other side your 3 tech and Leo are going to be in more one on one battles and in more disruptive roles. The Leo puts his hand in the dirt and that is Tank's spot IMO in this defense. The SAM will be standing up. Tank isn't going to be standing up IMO.

Lord knows I’ve been wrong before.

The main thing to remember is that the defense will be in nickel/dime almost three-quarters of the time, putting Lawrence in his normal 43 SDE spot. That’ll be where he is used most of the time, and what he is specifically suited for.

In the OP, he was speculating where Lawrence will be used in the “34 look” front and I was just kind of guessing where he might play in that. I absolutely could be wrong about some of that. Like you mentioned, the big end and the 1-tech/NT will be two gapping while the 3-tech and LEO won’t be.

It’s all a guess at this point, really. In running situations, Urban/Watkins is much more likely to play the big end than Lawrence, you’re right about that. And it would be wasteful to play Lawrence there to just stuff the run.

Playing him at LEO would be rare if it did happen at all because Gregory is a much better fit… but Lawrence might get some snaps in goal line situations or something like that where size might be more beneficial. It certainly wouldn’t be done much though, if at all. The only time that I can see Tank standing up is in this situation. But it is likely that he won’t stand at all, I agree.

Like I said, it’s just kind of fun speculation on where he might fit when the team isn’t in the regular nickel. The truth is, they will probably just give Lawrence a breather most of the time when the team isn’t in the nickel. In those run stopping situations, it would probably be smart. Just save him for the pass rush, where we know he fits.

 

[doomsday9084]

Quinn won’t be running a 34… it’ll be a 43 under, which looks like a 34 to the average fan.

The DE’s in the 43 under don’t need to be as big as a 34 DE. One DE is a LEO, which doesn’t even have to be as big as a normal 43 DE, mainly because of his alignment (9). The other DE, called a Big End much of the time in the 43 under, needs to be somewhat bigger than a regular 43 strong side DE… but not as big as a 34 end. They must be strong against the run, which Lawrence is.

Having said all of that, it is a good question where exactly Lawrence will be used. They could use him as a LEO some but he is at the upper end of the size scale for that position. Gregory is pretty much a textbook example of a LEO and should spend his time there. Lawrence could be used to spell Gregory at times there though.

He will probably be used at Big End a good portion of the time (when in the 43 under) because he provides a good pass rush while also being solid against the run. but that is speculation.

The big end will and can line up anywhere from the 5, down to the 4 and even the 4i, which is inside the OT. I would imagine if they are in the 43 under and they think it could be a pass, then Lawrence would play Big End as a 5. In running situations, they’ll probably use a guy like Urban or Watkins in the 4 or 4i to better shut down the OT/OG bubble. It’ll depend on the situation.

Of course, in the nickel, which will be an estimated 60-70% of the time according to Quinn… they will really be in a 4 man line and Lawrence will be playing the SDE that he’s been playing for years, so he’ll just be playing like normal for him.

Perhaps in some heavy defensive sets they’ll put Lawrence at LEO and Urban at Big End to better stop the run. That may or may not happen. But again the base 43 under will only be 30-40% of the time.

DeMarcus might even go inside and rush from the 3 as a DT. Quinn will use two 3’s in some pass rush sets.

Ultimately, we will just have to wait and see what Quinn does with Lawrence, but I’d expect something along the lines of what I just described. There’s a lot of ways to use him.

You have been completely owning these defense discussions and are great to read. Kudos and thank you for your contributions.

Overall, if DLaw plays most of the nickel snaps and half of the "base defense" snaps, he will be on the field a ton. IMO, people are way too worried about fit in the expected defense and not worried enough about Quinn's ability to actually teach it to a bunch of rookies and low IQ vets.

 

[quickccc]

I think for 3-4 accounting purposes he will. In actuality, he'll be a DL.

If Quinn calls the base a 3-4, it will be something like:

DE Odighizuwa
NT Bohanna
DE Urban

OLB LVE
ILB Parsons
ILB Smith
DPR Lawrence

Again, to be clear, that doesn't mean that Lawrence will play like a linebacker. It's likely that he'll shift from side to side as a pass rusher, with the linebackers sliding and the other OLB changing, so that you might have Smith rushing off the other edge or LVE or Parsons.

Gregory is gonna be in that mix, in fact he fits the edge 3-4 far more so than LVE

 

[gimmesix]

Gregory is gonna be in that mix, in fact he fits the edge 3-4 far more so than LVE

I think he'll be in the mix, but will primarily play when we're in nickel. Lawrence isn't going to be on the field for every play in either the base or the nickel, so I think we'll see a three-man rotation with Gregory and Basham, maybe four if Anae steps up or we use Golston some in the base.

I don't know if any of them will be out there as a true linebacker, though. Basham played 3-4 OLB, so he could be. Gregory would be more of a LEO rushing the passer, but that essentially would make us a 5-2 when he's out there. I'm sure we'll run that some, but I think our early-down defense will include the three true linebackers (LVE, Parsons, Smith) unless they are either hurt or show they are not worth playing compared to the others. Of course, we may want to mix Neal in with that group, but I think we'll see him more in the nickel and dime packages.

Since we won't be in base that often, I'm not sure how much it really is going to matter who is out there, though. Even if we made the decision to be more true 3-4 on early downs and not put Lawrence out there, he'd still get plenty of snaps. I just don't think it's a good idea to run any defensive scheme that excludes your best defender.

 

[gimmesix]

Gregory is gonna be in that mix, in fact he fits the edge 3-4 far more so than LVE

Also, I just listed who I think will end up being the primary players in the rotation in that scheme. I'm not sure at this point how much will rely on Osa and Bohanna early on. We could see Urban at NT and Watkins at DE if Bohanna isn't the immovable object we want him to be. Or if Odighizuwa takes a little time, we'd shift it around. I just think both are going to be better run defenders right off the bat than Watkins, Hill and Gallimore, who all fall more into the pass rusher category and are mediocre run defenders (although Hill has been pretty mediocre at all of it).

 

[xwalker]

Quinn won’t be running a 34… it’ll be a 43 under, which looks like a 34 to the average fan.

The DE’s in the 43 under don’t need to be as big as a 34 DE. One DE is a LEO, which doesn’t even have to be as big as a normal 43 DE, mainly because of his alignment (9). The other DE, called a Big End much of the time in the 43 under, needs to be somewhat bigger than a regular 43 strong side DE… but not as big as a 34 end. They must be strong against the run, which Lawrence is.

Having said all of that, it is a good question where exactly Lawrence will be used. They could use him as a LEO some but he is at the upper end of the size scale for that position. Gregory is pretty much a textbook example of a LEO and should spend his time there. Lawrence could be used to spell Gregory at times there though.

He will probably be used at Big End a good portion of the time (when in the 43 under) because he provides a good pass rush while also being solid against the run. but that is speculation.

The big end will and can line up anywhere from the 5, down to the 4 and even the 4i, which is inside the OT. I would imagine if they are in the 43 under and they think it could be a pass, then Lawrence would play Big End as a 5. In running situations, they’ll probably use a guy like Urban or Watkins in the 4 or 4i to better shut down the OT/OG bubble. It’ll depend on the situation.

Of course, in the nickel, which will be an estimated 60-70% of the time according to Quinn… they will really be in a 4 man line and Lawrence will be playing the SDE that he’s been playing for years, so he’ll just be playing like normal for him.

Perhaps in some heavy defensive sets they’ll put Lawrence at LEO and Urban at Big End to better stop the run. That may or may not happen. But again the base 43 under will only be 30-40% of the time.

DeMarcus might even go inside and rush from the 3 as a DT. Quinn will use two 3’s in some pass rush sets.

Ultimately, we will just have to wait and see what Quinn does with Lawrence, but I’d expect something along the lines of what I just described. There’s a lot of ways to use him.

Thank you for your usual well thought out reply.

Even if it was a 3-4, that would actually be good for DLaw.

The 3-4 is a run downs defense. Playing run defense as an OLB in a 3-4 is easier than playing run defense as a 4-3 DE.

In Marinelli's defense, DLaw was the LDE which Marinelli called the Strong Side DE even when when there was not a TE on that side.
- The LDE in Marinelli's defense generally played as a 5tech or 6i on run downs.
- The RDE generally played more of a 7tech.
- i.e. DLaw was the power DE in Marinelli's defense.
- The difference between LDE and RDE in Marinelli's defense is why Robert Quinn could play DE but is a 3-4 OLB in Chicago.

 

[BAT]

DLaw fits best as a trade asset.

 

[jnday]

Lawrence is the best and most consistent D player, he will be fine. He is one player no one can accuse of quitting and coasting during the season.

I used to take the easy way out with him because of his contract and expected more from him. Then I watched him, only him, in two back to back games and I changed my opinion. He was relentless in his attack and the most doubled player in the front 7. He just didn't have much help. It's like having a WR that draws doubles all the time but they can't make the D pay for that.

I didn't like Lawrence for that Hot Boyz nonsense but he could be a great player with some help. He is, by far, the best player on this defense and Quinn is going to try and exploit his talent. Quinn just needs to get the OC's worrying about more players than just Lawrence. Any one player can be erased.

I see him as a lesser version of Anthony Spencer, except he gets less sacks with four times the pay.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

For $20M a place will be made for him.