Who doesn't have Oline issues?

[jnday]

I disagree. The O-Linemen are getting bigger and bigger. Teams have always tried to use faster (and smaller) pass rushers. More teams are going to the 3-4 because with the college spread offense, they can only defend against it with smaller, but faster personnel...opting for 3-3-5 and other type of nickel packages. In the NFL the spread just doesn't work as well. So if you want to go with smaller and faster defenses, the opposing team can counter it by being far more physical. I have yet to see anything show me that O-Lines are going to get smaller and more athletic. I don't think you'll see big stiffs out there, but I think sub-300 lb linemen, even at center...are a thing of the past.

I agree with you. Fans seem to think that big linemen has to be slow. This is not always the case. The Cowboy lines of the 90`s were big and athletic. The current line is big , slow and ,at times, dumb . The key to having a big effective line is proper scouting and a willingness to use draft picks to obtain these big athletic linemen. The Cowboy`s have failed on the scouting and drafting these last few years. This line has been on a decline for at least 2 years and it it going to take a big investment in draft picks or trades to fix it. At the present, the line can not enforce their will on any decent defense. A good big man will beat a good small man on the line every time. As much as I like the fact that Dez is a Cowboy, I wouldn`t have been heart-broken if Mike Iupati had a star on his helment.

 

[DallasDomination]

I've mentioned this before, but the idea that you need a dominating O-Line to win a Super Bowl is a silly one. I think part of the issue is that for Dallas, the dynasty was built on dominating O-Line. Even still, I think Emmitt, Troy, Irvin and Moose had more to do with those dominating O-Lines because they made the O-Line's job easier.

Let's look at the last 5 Super Bowl games:

Saints vs. Colts
Steelers vs. Cardinals
NYG vs. Patriots
Bears vs. Colts
Steelers vs. Seahawks

Out of those 10 teams, I'd say that the '06 Colts had the best O-Line of the bunch, but hardly anything to write home about with 'stars' like Tarik Glenn. The '05 Seahawks had 2 great OT's in Walter Jones and Sean Locklear, but the interior was nothing to brag about. The rest of the teams had very average O-Lines.

And out of all of those teams, only 2 of them had good blocking TE's (Pittsburgh with Heath Miller and NYG with Boss).







YR

There are many factors that play into winning a sb I will not argue that. But there is no way the Oline isnt the most important facet of a successful offense.

 

[NextGenBoys]

The game is changing. With defensive linemen and the transition to OLBs than run like safeties, the offensive line needs to evolve.

Instead of bigger, fatbodies, I wouldn't be surprised to see more offensive linemen begin look more similar to today's defensive linemen - more athletic guys that are more agile and not just a gap-plug.

But that's just my opinion.

Oh absolutely, no questions asked.

It's why Gurode, Davis, and Columbo are the three linemen who give our offense fits. They are not athletic enough to go against these athletic defensive linemen.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

In other words, the NFL will start to look more like the CFL. Real great......

See sig.

And great post, theebs. You're dead on.

 

[burmafrd]

I think Hutchinson was with the Seahawks in 05 so their middle was not exactly chopped liver. The Steelers needed help to win 2 years ago because Raper had to run for his life and if he was not so big and strong would have been knocked out of several games-their O line stank.

The Saint's O line was not great but it played good enough and they lucked out that Freeny was injured.

An exception or two only proves a rule. You need at least a good O line to win it all.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

There are many factors that play into winning a sb I will not argue that. But there is no way the Oline isnt the most important facet of a successful offense.

Not even close, IMO.

It's the QB. Always has been and likely always will be.




YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I think Hutchinson was with the Seahawks in 05 so their middle was not exactly chopped liver. The Steelers needed help to win 2 years ago because Raper had to run for his life and if he was not so big and strong would have been knocked out of several games-their O line stank.

The Saint's O line was not great but it played good enough and they lucked out that Freeny was injured.

An exception or two only proves a rule. You need at least a good O line to win it all.

I did forget about Hutchinson.

Although Chris Gray and Robbie Tobeck were not exactly good at that point in their careers.

The Steelers O-Line in '08 in particular got chided for poor play. The Cardinals almost beat them and couldn't run the ball and had to use shotgun. The Pats O-Line couldn't run the ball and used shotgun more than 50% of the time. The G-Men could run the ball, but didn't protect Eli all that well.

I refuse to believe that the Colts O-Lines are great. I think it's clear to see that Peyton makes them great as he's not only a great QB, but basically calls the play for them based upon what he sees the defense doing....that's a huge advantage. The Bears '06 O-Line had nothing to brag about. They got there thru defense and special teams.

I think it's easy to see that a team can have a very average O-Line with some very glaring weaknesses and still make the Super Bowl and possibly win it. I think it's more of a case where if you're QB, receivers and defense is pretty good, as long as the O-Line doesn't hold your offense hostage, you can win the Lombardi.





YR

 

[Stautner]

If the playoff loss to the Vikings and the playoff loss a couple of years before to the Giants didn't hammer home the point that a QB can't win a game from his back, then some here have to start paying more attention. An O-line doesn't have to be loaded with All-Pros', but they do have to be steady and dependable. "Very glaring weaknesses" will be exposed by talented teams, and in the playoffs, and the deeper a team goes in the playoffs, the teams will be more and more talented.

 

[Chaos6980]

2. Were any of those O-Lines that I mentioned 'great?' Perhaps the Seahawks in '05 becasue their OT's that year were great. But the interior was nothing to write home about. The '07 NYG could run block, but were not great in pass protection. LT David Diehl led the league that year in sacks allowed.

YR

I believe that team also had a very good young Steve Hutchinson

 

[jnday]

Not even close, IMO.

It's the QB. Always has been and likely always will be.




Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams , Jim Plunkett, Brad Johnson etc doesn`t support that the qb position is always going the main factor in a Superbowl win. The qb, rb and wr can only execute with a decent o-line. The line does most of the work while the others get the glory.

 

[baj1dallas]

Are you serious ?

You do not need an all-star OL, but you certainly need a great one. The Colts alone should show you that.

Neither the Colts' nor the Saints' Offensive lines were *great* last year. Both where decent but made a lot better by the pocket presence of their quarterbacks.

 

[baj1dallas]

Not even close, IMO.

It's the QB. Always has been and likely always will be.

Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams , Jim Plunkett, Brad Johnson etc doesn`t support that the qb position is always going the main factor in a Superbowl win. The qb, rb and wr can only execute with a decent o-line. The line does most of the work while the others get the glory.

yeah well that was more true back then, than it is now. Right now this league is all about the QB.

 

[Stautner]

Neither the Colts' nor the Saints' Offensive lines were *great* last year. Both where decent but made a lot better by the pocket presence of their quarterbacks.

Sure it helps to have that kind of QB. Nobody is doubting that. But Manning and Brees are not the normal QB, and even so they both at least had solid O-lines. Romo is very definitely a notch or two below those guys, which is not to say he can't win, just that he needs more help than those guys.

 

[windjc]

Neither the Colts' nor the Saints' Offensive lines were *great* last year. Both where decent but made a lot better by the pocket presence of their quarterbacks.

Peyton was sacked 11 times last year. 11 times. No way he only gets sacked 11 times last year as Dallas QB. No way, no how. (And I'm not even taking into consideration how many sacks Romo avoided with his feet).

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Hostetler won a Super Bowl 20 years ago.

Brad Johnson was hardly a bad QB that year and his O-Line was hardly good either, much less great.

Wanna know why the Bucs won a SB under Johnson?

Their QB rating allowed on defense was a 48 that season.

Tough to beat a team that just absolutely shuts down the QB.






YR

 

[jnday]

Peyton was sacked 11 times last year. 11 times. No way he only gets sacked 11 times last year as Dallas QB. No way, no how. (And I'm not even taking into consideration how many sacks Romo avoided with his feet).

Good point. I think this shows that how easy it is to overlook line play. If he was only sacked 11 times last year, he had a better line than the media and fans gave him credit for. Most of these good qb`s lines are better than than they are given credit for. It`s impossible for a qb to put up big numbers while he is running for his life.

 

[Stautner]

Good point. I think this shows that how easy it is to overlook line play. If he was only sacked 11 times last year, he had a better line than the media and fans gave him credit for. Most of these good qb`s lines are better than than they are given credit for. It`s impossible for a qb to put up big numbers while he is running for his life.

And as a further extension to this thought, not even a great QB like Peyton Manning can consistently get rid of the ball so quickly and so accurately so often that they could keep from getting sacked more than 11 times behind a weak O-line. The only way to do that would be to throw a lot of balls up for grabs and/or get a lot of grounding penalties.

 

[DallasDomination]

Not even close, IMO.

It's the QB. Always has been and likely always will be.




YR

The Qb or better yet the entire offense cannot function without solid play from the Offensive line.


when the Oline is not playing solid football you can toss the entire game plan out the window. Look at the Vikings game last year for a perfect example. You win and lose in the trenches.

 

[huck1974]

I think the Cowboys have a good line. You will also see a pretty good line on Thursday night for a few minutes anyways.

 

[iceberg]

Listening to all the commentators about the Cowboys Oline problems makes me wonder why they don't seem concerned about any other NFC East team's line

NY Giants line has been getting knocked around. Eli's bleeding all over the turf.

Washington is afraid to play McNabb because he may get killed.

And I watched Kolb run for his life for a good part of the game the other night. Philly's got interior line issues, they had their 7th string center in there.

i more hate hearing about it after every game than i hate watching them play.