Who should have started at LB yesterday?

[parcellsguys]

Dat Nguyen or Ryan Fowler?

 

[dal0789]

Dat Nguyen

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I see Nors and HH haven't voted yet...

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Nors has to log-in twice, be patient

 

[NorTex]

Jeff Boehme, Montrose, Colo.: Why isn't Dat Nguyen starting? What have I missed?

Mickey:Remember when he hurt his neck? Well, he also had a knee problem, and Parcells is trying to get him through the season by not having him play so many downs, especially the physically punishing run downs. If you remember, Dat told Brad Sham for a column here on DallasCowboys.com that he seriously considered retirement there for a moment when he suffered the neck injury. Parcells is trying to accentuate his strengths in pass coverage.

 

[Alexander]

Jeff Boehme, Montrose, Colo.: Why isn't Dat Nguyen starting? What have I missed?

Mickey:Remember when he hurt his neck? Well, he also had a knee problem, and Parcells is trying to get him through the season by not having him play so many downs, especially the physically punishing run downs. If you remember, Dat told Brad Sham for a column here on DallasCowboys.com that he seriously considered retirement there for a moment when he suffered the neck injury. Parcells is trying to accentuate his strengths in pass coverage.

That is nice, but there were several times yesterday where Fowler's misdiagnosis cost us dearly. Nguyen reads most of what Fowler misses in his sleep.

I think Coach Parcells caught the "bigger is better" disease and made a rare personnel mistake.

It was pretty obvious Fowler was not ready for his first starting assignment (or extensive playing time whatsoever) in a game of this magnitude.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Since Fowler played well, I'd say Fowler. Plus, keeping Dat healthy is a good thing.


Rich..........

 

[Alexander]

Since Fowler played well, I'd say Fowler. Plus, keeping Dat healthy is a good thing.


Rich..........

What are we saving Dat for?

Either he wants to play or he doesn't. If he doesn't, he should consider retirement.

If we are not playing the more talented player just because of his size, then I do not understand.

That is like benching Demarcus Ware for Quentin Caver and the reasoning is that he is bigger and can stand up to the run.

As for your comment about Fowler, define "playing well".

Shanle was playing well. What Fowler did was a step below that.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

That is nice, but there were several times yesterday where Fowler's misdiagnosis cost us dearly. Nguyen reads most of what Fowler misses in his sleep.

I think Coach Parcells caught the "bigger is better" disease and made a rare personnel mistake.

It was pretty obvious Fowler was not ready for his first starting assignment (or extensive playing time whatsoever) in a game of this magnitude.

Okay, I don't understand this one.

The defense gave up 240 net yards and 14 points at the end of regulation. Supposedly, there was a blatant hold on Spears and Bradie James on the Dayne run in OT.

I thought Fowler played pretty well. But even if he didn't (I'm watching the game over again tomorrow), I don't see how Fowler's play "cost us dearly." The defense did a great job against an excellent offense and that was without Anthony Henry as well.

Rich........

 

[Alexander]

I thought Fowler played pretty well. But even if he didn't (I'm watching the game over again tomorrow), I don't see how Fowler's play "cost us dearly." The defense did a great job against an excellent offense and that was without Anthony Henry as well.

Fowler missed plays and was slow to react quite often. What should have been a one yard gain became three and what should have been a three yard gain became five and so on.

When you watch the game again, you will see that.

In other words, he was noticed, but in a negative fashion. He did not make any plays.

I was shocked and more than a little nervous when I saw him announced as a starter and his performance looked like a young player who was overwhelmed.

Perhaps he will get better, but his performance was clearly inferior to any that Nguyen or Shanle have had this year.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

What are we saving Dat for?

Um, the rest of the year?

Either he wants to play or he doesn't. If he doesn't, he should consider retirement.

He wants to play, but he's still banged up and can't go full speed. If you can get steady play out of a backup on first and second down and keep Dat in on third down, you're using Dat to the best of his ability for the time being as he should eventually heal up. But, if you put Dat in on almost every down, he's never going to fully recover.

If we are not playing the more talented player just because of his size, then I do not understand.

Has nothing to do with size in this case. It has to do with Dat being banged up and he only has so many plays in him.

That is like benching Demarcus Ware for Quentin Caver and the reasoning is that he is bigger and can stand up to the run.

This is nothing like that. This is an injury issue, not a size issue.

As for your comment about Fowler, define "playing well".

He helped contain the run and the pass while he was in the game. Would you agree that Denver is a very good offense? If so, they held their offense to 233 total net yards and 14 points at the end of regulation. If Fowler was truly costing the defense dearly, I would think Denver would have done much better last night.

Shanle was playing well. What Fowler did was a step below that.

If somebody is playing a step below "well", that's not playing bad.


Rich.........

 

[Bob Sacamano]

remember when Dat 1st was coming off the stinger, that Parcells said he would take his time with him until he, Dat, is 100% ready to play? well...

and this also could be Parcells prepping Fowler, getting a taste of him, as he's wanted to for over a year, and seems he wasn't that bad either

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Fowler missed plays and was slow to react quite often. What should have been a one yard gain became three and what should have been a three yard gain became five and so on.

Not really.

The vaunted Denver running game got 74 running yards out of their RB's at the end of regulation. I don't see how they were getting all of these extra yards you are talking about.

In other words, he was noticed, but in a negative fashion. He did not make any plays.

I'll give you that. But, I don't want to cause further injury to Dat so he can possibly make a play when I can use him sparingly and effectively and let him work his way back to being healthy at the same time.


Rich..........

 

[Alexander]

Um, the rest of the year?

So, we are saving him on nickel duty for what again?

Suddenly in four weeks or so, we decide to re-insert him back into the starting lineup? Is that what you are implying?

Yesterday was a perfect spot for him to play more. He was relegated to nickel duty. That has nothing to do with "saving him". That has to do with either the fact Coach Parcells does not have faith in his to do his job or that Dat himself is not really up to the challenge.

You cannot convince me for one moment that Ryan Fowler is a better football player or a better choice for the job.

If it comes down to the fact that Dat is not practicing in that spot, then I think he should. It is pointless to have a highly paid nickel linebacker, particularly when he is the most instinctual linebacker on the roster.

I am at a loss to explain it. Injuryt be damned.

Coach Parcells has stated that if a player can play, he will use him. Well, it seems to me we used the wrong player. And in a huge game at that.

He helped contain the run and the pass while he was in the game. Would you agree that Denver is a very good offense? If so, they held their offense to 233 total net yards and 14 points at the end of regulation. If Fowler was truly costing the defense dearly, I would think Denver would have done much better last night.

He was on the field. Go find me a specific play he made and refresh my memory if you don't mind.

If somebody is playing a step below "well", that's not playing bad.

It is not good either and when you are in a dogfight with another good team, "not bad" shouldn't be viewed as more than it was. He did not give up big plays. But in a tight game like that was, any little mistake or misdiagnosis added up to yards and every yard was precious.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

So, we are saving him on nickel duty for what again?

Suddenly in four weeks or so, we decide to re-insert him back into the starting lineup? Is that what you are implying?

With Dat banged up, I think it's best to have him alternate. Since he's really banged up right now, I think Fowler is the best option to get 2/3rds of the snaps. Once Shanle comes back (and I liked Shanle better than Dat), Shanle should start and Fowler should be on the bench.

Yesterday was a perfect spot for him to play more. He was relegated to nickel duty. That has nothing to do with "saving him". That has to do with either the fact Coach Parcells does not have faith in his to do his job or that Dat himself is not really up to the challenge.

Dat's hurt. He's got some plays in him, but a limited amount. Parcells has faith in Dat to play a certain amount of plays.

You cannot convince me for one moment that Ryan Fowler is a better football player or a better choice for the job.

When healthy, Dat is a better player. But, you cannot convince me that Ryan Fowler killed the defense yesterday. 233 yards and 14 points is not a lot of production.

If it comes down to the fact that Dat is not practicing in that spot, then I think he should. It is pointless to have a highly paid nickel linebacker, particularly when he is the most instinctual linebacker on the roster.

Coach Parcells has stated that if a player can play, he will use him. Well, it seems to me we used the wrong player. And in a huge game at that.

Dat could play. But, he only has a certain amount of plays in him. Parcells used him for that certain amount of plays.

It is not good either and when you are in a dogfight with another good team, "not bad" shouldn't be viewed as more than it was. He did not give up big plays. But in a tight game like that was, any little mistake or misdiagnosis added up to yards and every yard was precious.

Fowler did not cost the team this game in any shape or form. An INT by Bledsoe, a missed chip shot by Cundiff, and not being able to move the ball at midfield where the reasons this game was lost.

If I could get the defense to allow 233 yards and 14 points to an offense like Denver's every time out (hell, I'd take that against almost any offense), I'd be happy with Fowler playing.

Shanle got hurt and couldn't go. Dat only had a few plays in him at this point in time. Parcells made due with what he had.

Rich...............

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Injuryt be damned.

Coach Parcells has stated that if a player can play, he will use him. Well, it seems to me we used the wrong player. And in a huge game at that.

unfortunately, Parcells doesn't agree with you, he's said numerous times, either that he won't rush Dat until he's 100%, and/or will alternate him to reduce his wear and tear as the season goes along, yesterday he wasn't 100% and was alternating with Fowler, just as Parcells said was his plan for Dat, the rest of the season

 

[dallasblue05]

Since Fowler played well, I'd say Fowler. Plus, keeping Dat healthy is a good thing.


Rich..........

a healthy Dat does us no good if he's not on the field!!

 

[JackMagist]

Since I don't know the exact status of Dat's rehab and his medical condition on both of his injuries it is hard to answer the question. If Dat still has lingering problems that would be aggravated by playing the full game (especially by the more physically demanding running downs) then it was right to hold him out and let him play to his strengths in the less punishing passing downs. Since it is my understanding that this is the case I would say that it was right to start Fowler.

As for Fowler not playing as well as Dat or Shanle it did appear to be true that the 3rd stringer (Fowler) did not play as well as the 1st or 2nd stringers (Dat and Shanle)...Go Figure.

 

[JackMagist]

I am at a loss to explain it. Injuryt be damned.

Coach Parcells has stated that if a player can play, he will use him. Well, it seems to me we used the wrong player. And in a huge game at that.

Try this for an explanation.

Suppose we go with your "Injury be Damned" philosophy and Dat tries to go every down. And because Dat is playing the more physically demanding run downs he aggravates his knee in the second quarter trying to play off a block from a 300 lb OL (something he doesn't have to do in pass coverage). Then you have Fowler not only playing against the run (something that his size allows him to do with some degree of effectiveness) but also against the pass (something his lack of speed and experience makes him Unsuited for) for the rest of the game. Can you imagine how Shannahan and Plummer could have exploited that?

Dat's condition (as I understand it) is such that playing the run makes such a re-injury a very real and probable danger. So the decision to sacrifice a couple of yards here and there in the run game to insure providing competent coverage in the short and intermediate passing game (where we could have been killed) makes a great deal of since.

 

[Nors]

I vote for Shanle

He was dearly missed out there

Notice Dat didn't start.....