Who would you rather start on your team? Art Monk or...

[jimmy40]

The zone coverage defense was invented to stop one WR back in the day. That means that player was a game changing player. He changed the way the game is played. That players name was Bob Hayes. Until he gets in, Monk doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Why is Ervin in? What defense was invented to stop him?

 

[big dog cowboy]

I don't know anything about Bob Hayes. I'm too young and never saw him play. How come he isn't in the HOF?

Because he played for the Cowboys. No I am NOT kidding. If he were a Stealer, he would have been in years ago.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Why is Ervin in? What defense was invented to stop him?

 

[Way 'nuff]

Because he played for the Cowboys. No I am NOT kidding. If he were a Stealer, he would have been in years ago.

Well I think we can both say there's a bias here in HOF voting. Only one player from the 80's Skins teams is in. A team that went to 5 NFC championship games, 4 superbowls and won 3. And Riggins wasn't even on all of those teams.

Irvin and Aikman have gotten their due. Emmitt Smith will as well.

So there's a bias against 80's Commanders and 70's Cowboys. Why do you think this is? Is it because the Cowboys played 2nd fiddle to the Steelers of that decade and the Commanders played 2nd fiddle to the 49ers of the 80's?

I agree with the notion of the Steelers. Like I said, I never saw Hayes play, but I looked at his stats and they are quite impressive, especially for an era that leaned more towards the running game.

 

[lurkercowboy]

Well I think we can both say there's a bias here in HOF voting. Only one player from the 80's Skins teams is in. A team that went to 5 NFC championship games, 4 superbowls and won 3. And Riggins wasn't even on all of those teams.

Irvin and Aikman have gotten their due. Emmitt Smith will as well.

So there's a bias against 80's Commanders and 70's Cowboys. Why do you think this is? Is it because the Cowboys played 2nd fiddle to the Steelers of that decade and the Commanders played 2nd fiddle to the 49ers of the 80's?

I agree with the notion of the Steelers. Like I said, I never saw Hayes play, but I looked at his stats and they are quite impressive, especially for an era that leaned more towards the running game.

I watched those 80's Commander teams pretty carefully. Regarding the HOF, I think the following people should be shoo-ins:
Gibbs
Riggins
Jacoby
Green

The following list are the borderline players:
Bostic
Grimm
Monk
Manley

Am I forgetting anyone?

 

[SultanOfSix]

Why is Ervin in? What defense was invented to stop him?

LOL. Are you even a Cowboys' fan? How do you not know how to spell Irvin?

I will now be skeptical of every comment you make.

 

[superpunk]

I think I'd choose Irving Fryar.

 

[Way 'nuff]

I watched those 80's Commander teams pretty carefully. Regarding the HOF, I think the following people should be shoo-ins:
Gibbs
Riggins
Jacoby
Green

The following list are the borderline players:
Bostic
Grimm
Monk
Manley

Am I forgetting anyone?

I'm curious, why are you putting Jacoby in before Grimm when a lot of people think otherwise?

Damn shame about Manley, threw it all away.

 

[lurkercowboy]

I'm curious, why are you putting Jacoby in before Grimm when a lot of people think otherwise?

Damn shame about Manley, threw it all away.

Personally, I thought Jacoby was a dominating player. Although Grimm was also great.

 

[burmafrd]

Grimm seemed to get more ink because he talked more to the press then Jacoby did.

 

[THUMPER]

Grimm seemed to get more ink because he talked more to the press then Jacoby did.

Besides, Jacoby was butt-ugly! I met him a Christian Men's conference in 1996 and shook his hand. I told him that I hated him when he was a player, since I was a Cowboys fan, that got a chuckle out of him. Dude is massive! I'm a big guy at 6'3" and 240 (back then) but he dwarfed me. Big hands and still looked like he could play.

He is a really nice guy and a great player but frankly, he is too ugly to be in the media and I don't think he ever felt comfortable talking with them.

 

[big dog cowboy]

LOL. Are you even a Cowboys' fan? How do you not know how to spell Irvin?

I will now be skeptical of every comment you make.

So will I,

Signed,

Jason Whitten

:laugh2:

 

[big dog cowboy]

He is a really nice guy and a great player but frankly, he is too ugly to be in the media and I don't think he ever felt comfortable talking with them.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

That is exactly right. Monk wasn't even considered among the best WRs when he played, only being named to the Pro-Bowl 3 times in his 16 years in the league. He only has 5 1000+ yard seasons to his credit, and only 6 when he caught more than 70 passes. Compare that with Irvin who had 7 seasons of each in his 12 years. Had Irvin not gotten hurt he would have accumulated better numbers.

Monk played in 65 more games than Irvin and has almost 200 more receptions, yet he has only 3 more TDs than Mike. He was not a big play guy. In fact the best comparison for Monk is Keyshawn Johnson, another guy who makes the tough catches, gets 1st downs, collects a lot of numbers, but isn't a big play guy.

All that said, I do think Monk belongs in the HoF but he's got a lot of guys ahead of him (Bob Hayes for instance).

All the terms I hear to describe Monk sound like a Cowboy fan describing Keyshawn when he was here. Good comparison. I agree with your last sentence. Whether or not you agree Monk does or doesn't belong in the HOF, I hope everyone can agree that there a lot more receivers that deserve to go in before Monk.

 

[kmd24]

But when you retire as the undisputed leader of a statistical category, that should count for something. Maybe it only makes sense in my head. Probably does.

FWIW, Monk did not retire as the undisputed leader in any statistical category. He was two catches behind Jerry Rice. Here's a source and a quote from the article:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n7_v92/ai_19574895

Monk's 940 all-time receptions rank second to San Francisco 49ers Jerry Rice.

Anyway, even being second should count for something, but as time passes, this statistic will get further swept under the rug, as receivers amass huge reception totals. As it is now, there are a number of active players who may push Monk out of the top 10 all time over the next three to four seasons (I. Bruce needs 54, Keenan McCardell 80, Rod Smith 92, Keyshawn Johnson 127, TO 141, Tony Gonzalez 220, Tory Holt 229)

I think a big part of Monk's problem is that his career overlapped into the West Coast Offense era, when receivers started catching huge numbers of passes. The year Monk retired, nine players caught more than 100 passes. This really devalued the only statistical category that Monk really excelled in and overshadowed his remarkable 1984 season.

None of this is justification for keeping Monk out of the HOF, but it certainly colors the perception of the voters, and perception is 90% of reality. I think Monk deserves to be in, but his chances are peaking right now, so it needs to be soon.

 

[BigDFan5]

Ignorance is bliss.

http://www.monk4thehall.com/ Watch the video. Note the commentators/peers who know a bit more about football than you or me.

I'm a Skins fan and I'll be the first to admit that Monk was a pretty boring, quiet guy. However you can't discount what he did on the field.

I'll spin it this way... Other than Pete Rose, you can't find someone who retired from ANY sport as the all time leader in a major category and not get elected to their respective Hall of Fame. You just can't.

Just for future reference, Monk retired #2 all time in receptions not #1

 

[Zaxor]

Ignorance is bliss.

http://www.monk4thehall.com/ Watch the video. Note the commentators/peers who know a bit more about football than you or me.

I'm a Skins fan and I'll be the first to admit that Monk was a pretty boring, quiet guy. However you can't discount what he did on the field.

I'll spin it this way... Other than Pete Rose, you can't find someone who retired from ANY sport as the all time leader in a major category and not get elected to their respective Hall of Fame. You just can't.

I believe Bullet Bob Hayes led all receivers in YPC when he retired..and he is not in...

I believe you will also find that Cliff Harris is the only member from the all pro team of the 70's that is not in...

We Cowboy fans are well aware of the HOF bias... It needs to change.

and yes Monk should be a member

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

That is exactly right. Monk wasn't even considered among the best WRs when he played, only being named to the Pro-Bowl 3 times in his 16 years in the league. He only has 5 1000+ yard seasons to his credit, and only 6 when he caught more than 70 passes. Compare that with Irvin who had 7 seasons of each in his 12 years. Had Irvin not gotten hurt he would have accumulated better numbers.

Monk played in 65 more games than Irvin and has almost 200 more receptions, yet he has only 3 more TDs than Mike. He was not a big play guy. In fact the best comparison for Monk is Keyshawn Johnson, another guy who makes the tough catches, gets 1st downs, collects a lot of numbers, but isn't a big play guy.

All that said, I do think Monk belongs in the HoF but he's got a lot of guys ahead of him (Bob Hayes for instance).

Although I do agree Monk should be in the Hall of Fame, he played in a pass happy offense despite having guys like Riggens running the ball. Michael Irvin was the only real WR the Cowboys truly had and teams still couldn't stop him from catching TD's and slants! I'm trying to tell people what Irvin's career would have been like if he hadn't got hurt in the Philthy Eargirls game.

 

[gbrittain]

Ignorance is bliss.

http://www.monk4thehall.com/ Watch the video. Note the commentators/peers who know a bit more about football than you or me.

I'm a Skins fan and I'll be the first to admit that Monk was a pretty boring, quiet guy. However you can't discount what he did on the field.

I'll spin it this way... Other than Pete Rose, you can't find someone who retired from ANY sport as the all time leader in a major category and not get elected to their respective Hall of Fame. You just can't.

You guys need to quit quoting stats in support of Monk. That is not his strong point.

If you think Monk's stats get him in the HOF you must think Drew Bledsoe is a first ballot HOFer and one of the very best to don a NFL uniform.

 

[speedkilz88]

If the HOF was all about stats. Say hello to Drew Bledsoe, Vinny Testeverde, and Keyshawn Johnson, people.