Why 4-3 Defense?

[JohnBoy]

Sorry if this has been bantered to death elsewhere, but I wanted to ask the forum experts: why does Dallas cling to the 4-3 defense? For a while there it seemed as though the 4-3 was falling out of favor, but now it's not so clear as several teams have come back to 4-3 (from 3-4).

What say you?

 

[Vanilla2]

Full circle

 

[Zordon]

Maybe it's easier to find players that fit a 4-3 scheme.

 

[Corso]

Sorry if this has been bantered to death elsewhere, but I wanted to ask the forum experts: why does Dallas cling to the 4-3 defense? For a while there it seemed as though the 4-3 was falling out of favor, but now it's not so clear as several teams have come back to 4-3 (from 3-4).

What say you?

Maybe it's easier to find players that fit a 4-3 scheme.

That's specifically what JG and Jerry said about the switch when they made it.
And that they wanted to move to simpler stuff after Rob Ryan because it helps with injury attrition and picking up the "scheme" quickly.

So... we're lazy morons when it comes to defense because it's easier.

 

[dragon_mikal]

The Cowboys should just have their staff come on here and conduct a poll on what defense or offense they should run because no matter what they do we always end up wanting the opposite, lol.

 

[sean10mm]

The Patriots run a 4-3 a lot of the time, it's hardly obsolete. But good teams aren't strictly 3-4 or 4-3 anymore - they switch between the two and sometimes even go 5-2 or whatever.

 

[xwalker]

Sorry if this has been bantered to death elsewhere, but I wanted to ask the forum experts: why does Dallas cling to the 4-3 defense? For a while there it seemed as though the 4-3 was falling out of favor, but now it's not so clear as several teams have come back to 4-3 (from 3-4).

What say you?

It does not matter. There are plenty of Super Bowls winners for both.

• Belichick ran a 4-3 last year but the Pats defense uses more 3-4 this year.
• Belichick has switched back and forth over the years.
• In 2019 the Pats generally use:
  • 1st down: 3-4
  • 2nd down: Similar to 4-3 if the DEs in a 4-3 were standing up.
  • 3rd down: Varies. Sometimes 1 big NT and 6 LBs make up the front 7.

Modern 3-4 vs 4-3

• The 3-4 is a run defense alignment.
• No team uses a true 3-4 alignment on passing downs now.
• Modern 3-4 defenses are very similar to 4-3 defenses.
• In the Parcells NYG era, the 3-4 was much different than the 4-3.
• Teams often use a 3-man line on passing downs, but that's not a 3-4 defensive alignment.
• The 3-4 has 3 DL with the DE either head-up on the OTs or shaded slightly to one side.
• The 3-man pass rushing alignment most often has the DEs aligned like 4-3 DEs but with 1 DT instead of 2.

Run Defense 3-4

• Against the run, it is basically a 5-man line.
• The the OLBs are similar to 4-3 DEs but slightly smaller on average.
• The 3-4 basically adds 1 extra DL in the space between LT and RT.
• Against the run, the OLBs are in a position not much different than DEs in a 4-3.

The Cowboys have the personnel to easily show a 3-4 look.

• Quinn at ROLB
• Jaylon at LOLB
• DLaw and the DTs shifted slightly to the right.
• Some combination with 2 of Vander Esch, Lee or Thomas at ILB.

 

[Whirlwin]

Sorry if this has been bantered to death elsewhere, but I wanted to ask the forum experts: why does Dallas cling to the 4-3 defense? For a while there it seemed as though the 4-3 was falling out of favor, but now it's not so clear as several teams have come back to 4-3 (from 3-4).

What say you?

do you think we have the linebackers to play a 3 / 4

 

[Whirlwin]

Give me the flex back

 

[Whirlwin]

The Patriots run a 4-3 a lot of the time, it's hardly obsolete. But good teams aren't strictly 3-4 or 4-3 anymore - they switch between the two and sometimes even go 5-2 or whatever.

I got a Super Bowl ring. Madden football. With that Patriot defense. This isn't Madden my cowboy brother

 

[cowboyec]

COACH LANDRY

 

[xwalker]

Maybe it's easier to find players that fit a 4-3 scheme.

Maybe it's easier to find players that fit a 4-3 scheme.

Parcells said it was easier to find players for the 3-4.

In 2013 the Cowboys said it was easier to find players for the 4-3.

There as some truth to each statement:

• Attributes 3-4:
• Positive:
  • College pass rushers that are too small to play as 4-3 DEs can excel as 3-4 OLBs.
• Negative:
  • In most modern 3-4 defenses like the Wade Phillips defense, the Strong Side OLB has to be "3 tool" player to borrow a baseball term.
  • The SOLB must be a good pass rusher, good in coverage and good against the run and know when to rush, cover or play the run.
  • It turns out that finding those 3-tool players is difficult, especially from the mental perspective.
  • Anthony Spencer was value to the Cowboys despite just be an OK pass rusher because he could do all 3 both mentally and physically.
  • Players like Victor Butler had the physical ability but couldn't handle it mentally.
  • Butler functioned better backing up Ware at WOLB because it was not as complicated from a mental aspect.

• Attributes 4-3:
• Positive:
  • No need to find pass rushers than can play coverage
• Negative:
  • Outside pass rushers (DEs) generally need to be bigger than 3-4 OLBs. Bigger means less uber faster players available.
• Positive Offset:
  • A 4-3 Under can accommodate a smallish pass rusher at RDE.
  • Only the LDE needs to be a "big" outside pass rusher.

 

[America's Cowboy]

This bunch of coaches struggle to realize they need a big, hole-plugging Defensive Tackle at the 1-tech for this 4-3 D to truly work. There is no way they would ever figure out that a 3-4 D starts with an even bigger true Nose Tackle to make it work.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Sorry if this has been bantered to death elsewhere, but I wanted to ask the forum experts: why does Dallas cling to the 4-3 defense? For a while there it seemed as though the 4-3 was falling out of favor, but now it's not so clear as several teams have come back to 4-3 (from 3-4).

What say you?

Why not?

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

Give me the flex back

Ernie is this you?

 

[MikeB80]

Maybe it's easier to find players that fit a 4-3 scheme.

Bill Parcells said the opposite when he left, in fact he told Jerry that going to the 4-3 would be a mistake because of how hard it is to find defensive ends and how much they cost when you do.

He left, wade and then garrett takes over and goes to the 4-3 after two years and misses completely at defensive end where they have spent countless resources and only have one player to show for it in D-Law and he was in limbo his first 3 seasons all the time.

It's almost as if Parcells knew what he was talking about. It's cool though the Dorance armstrong's of the world will get it done.

 

[EJK24]

With amount of passing in the league now and the way offenses use their personnel, I would imagine Nickel defense is used more then a base 4-3 or 3-4.

One thing I would say regarding our personnel, if we struggle to stop the run now because we dont put a value on a big run plugging 1T, I believe it would not be any better under a 3-4.

In the 3-4 your asking your big guys to free up your linebackers to make plays in the run game and with our current roster and coaching staff, the lineman are rushing up the field and basically playing the run on the way to the QB.

At the very least, Rod would have to go before anything like this would be considered. Totally different philosophy as far as what he wants his guys doing and what would be required to switch the system.

 

[Zordon]

Parcells said it was easier to find players for the 3-4.

In 2013 the Cowboys said it was easier to find players for the 4-3.

There as some truth to each statement:

• Attributes 3-4:
• Positive:
  • College pass rushers that are too small to play as 4-3 DEs can excel as 3-4 OLBs.
• Negative:
  • In most modern 3-4 defenses like the Wade Phillips defense, the Strong Side OLB has to be "3 tool" player to borrow a baseball term.
  • The SOLB must be a good pass rusher, good in coverage and good against the run and know when to rush, cover or play the run.
  • It turns out that finding those 3-tool players is difficult, especially from the mental perspective.
  • Anthony Spencer was value to the Cowboys despite just be an OK pass rusher because he could do all 3 both mentally and physically.
  • Players like Victor Butler had the physical ability but couldn't handle it mentally.
  • Butler functioned better backing up Ware at WOLB because it was not as complicated from a mental aspect.

• Attributes 4-3:
• Positive:
  • No need to find pass rushers than can play coverage
• Negative:
  • Outside pass rushers (DEs) generally need to be bigger than 3-4 OLBs. Bigger means less uber faster players available.
• Positive Offset:
  • A 4-3 Under can accommodate a smallish pass rusher at RDE.
  • Only the LDE needs to be a "big" outside pass rusher.

Yep, I remember when we made the switch, Jerry was on the radio making the argument that it was easier to find 4-3 players. I do agree with that sentiment even though I think the 3-4 is a superior scheme. I also agree with your point about Spencer. I think he's one of the more underrated Cowboys players in recent memory. I wonder what he's up to.

 

[Zordon]

Bill Parcells said the opposite when he left, in fact he told Jerry that going to the 4-3 would be a mistake because of how hard it is to find defensive ends and how much they cost when you do.

He left, wade and then garrett takes over and goes to the 4-3 after two years and misses completely at defensive end where they have spent countless resources and only have one player to show for it in D-Law and he was in limbo his first 3 seasons all the time.

It's almost as if Parcells knew what he was talking about. It's cool though the Dorance armstrong's of the world will get it done.

Yeah I remember Parcells saying that too. But like I mentioned in the post above, when we switched back to the 4-3, Jerry was on The Ticket selling to the masses that 4-3 players are easier to find and that went into the decision to switch back. If I recall correctly Lacewell pushed for it.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Sorry if this has been bantered to death elsewhere, but I wanted to ask the forum experts: why does Dallas cling to the 4-3 defense? For a while there it seemed as though the 4-3 was falling out of favor, but now it's not so clear as several teams have come back to 4-3 (from 3-4).

What say you?

we actually switched to 3-4 when parcells was head coach, subsequently Jerry hired Wade because he was a 3-4 defensive guru supposedly and then we switched back to 4-3.