Why doesn't Roy play LB in the nickel?

[Zman5]

Roy maybe be our best cover saftey(really sad), but he is also probably our best blitzer not named Ware. He probably can cover the flats better than the our current LBs as well.

So why not have him closer to the LOS on obvious passing downs.

 

[khiladi]

I'm sorry, but when Reggie Bush just runs for a 60 plus yard TD on a screen pass, after NO was consistently getting significant yardage from short dump-offs, your first focus is going to be the line, and not a long pass...

The play Roy got burned on was zone coverage. Henry left the WR to the zone pretty early, meaning they were FOCUSING on the run. This gave plenty of space, i.e. the whole left field, for the WR to get to the outside. Roy IN NO WAY IN HELL is going to cover that WR. I don't care who the safety is. It also neglects the fact that Roy was most likely focusing up front on a dump off pass considering how easy NO's was tracking up yardage...

We were outcoached on that play... We get beat on the long all, because we are being outcoached...

The problem is, with the damn cover 2, he is being taken out of plays by the scheming. We play way too much zone, considering our corners...

Why should we change Roy to a LB... We need to play more man, and cut the zone crap, and be aggressive.. We are playing to stop the long pass, and we end up getting killed by the long pass... It is the whole bend-don't-break philosophy that is killing us...

 

[SmashFactorGolf]

Wow. This isnt getting old.

People. RW is NOT a LB. I repeat. RW is not a LB.

He would get killed by OL that block down to the 2nd level, period.

He has been a safety and will ALWAYS be a safety. This topis is getting really old.

Blame our defensive system for putting him in 1 on 1 situations against guys who run 4.2 40s.

He is a great safety but our coaching staff is putting him in situations that is unfair to 99% of any safety in the league.

Not many, if any SS can cover Devry Henderson 1 on 1. The guy runs a 4.0 40.

So once again. Stop suggesting RW turns into a LB. It WONT happen.

My memory is good, its just short.......but didnt T.Landry "get away" with haveing Bill Bates play LB in the nickel...........opps, my bad.....Roy W isnt near as physical as Bates.................

 

[smarta5150]

Like anyone can watch a guy run 4 flat and 4.36 and tell the difference?

The point I was making is that he is much faster than RW virtually every other SS in the league.

I lov how everyone is so quick to jump on people with technicallities and look right past the obvious facts, that is, Devry is quicker than every SS in the league... So why do we match RW 1 on 1 with this guy.

Like most people said, its sad that RW is our best coverage safety but it is true. So why consider moving him up in the box on nickel?

SO WE CAN HAVE SOMEONE ELSE TO DEBATE ABOUT ON THIS FORUM FOR BEING THE WORST COVERAGE SAFETY ON OUR TEAM?

The problem isNT how our safeties cover... the problem is how our coaching and system contuinue to put our safeties in 1 on 1 matchups. They obviously cant cover and we continue to let them cover 1 on 1.


PS. I love the Madden comment. I am sure people who play their season/franchise modes have already converted RW to LB and he is now a 99 rating. Hello people... this is the real world. RW would get handled by OL in the 3-4 scheme. He hits WRs, TEs, and RBs hard... and sometimes a punter but we are talking about 340+ lb interior OL.

Wanna say he wont get hit by OL covering the flats? That doesnt work because RW cant cover 99% of the TEs in the league let alone RBs like Reggie Bush out of the backfield. RW has been beat by Clark and Shockey (off the top of my head) and the last time I checked RBs are a lot more agile than these 2 guys.

We need to utilize RW ability to blitz and stop the run. On passing downs if he isnt blitzing he needs to HELP out and only that in coverage. He cant be responsible for 1 on 1 because he simply cant do a good job at that.

 

[Gordon]

Like anyone can watch a guy run 4 flat and 4.36 and tell the difference?

First of all, yes you can tell the difference. Go watch Raghib Ismail tapes when he was at ND and then watch him when he was with the Cowboys. Much different. Second of all, even if you couldn't tell the difference, it still does make a difference of a step or two which is the difference of a batted down ball and 6 points.

PS. I love the Madden comment. I am sure people who play their season/franchise modes have already converted RW to LB and he is now a 99 rating. Hello people... this is the real world. RW would get handled by OL in the 3-4 scheme. He hits WRs, TEs, and RBs hard... and sometimes a punter but we are talking about 340+ lb interior OL.

Again, this is nickle we're talking about, not 3-4. There are 4 down lineman in nickle.

Like I said, I'm not in favor of the move. We don't have the luxury of doing it until we get the right personell to fill in at safety. If we did have the personell, it's not as far fetched of an idea as you're trying to make it seem.

 

[smarta5150]

First of all, yes you can tell the difference. Go watch Raghib Ismail tapes when he was at ND and then watch him when he was with the Cowboys. Much different. Second of all, even if you couldn't tell the difference, it still does make a difference of a step or two which is the difference of a batted down ball and 6 points.



Again, this is nickle we're talking about, not 3-4. There are 4 down lineman in nickle.

Like I said, I'm not in favor of the move. We don't have the luxury of doing it until we get the right personell to fill in at safety. If we did have the personell, it's not as far fetched of an idea as you're trying to make it seem.

Great cut and paste job. I love how you leave out my points.

The 1st quote... I then said Devry is much faster than RW. So throw out the 40 times... who cares.

The 2nd quote... I said RW has been beat by TEs such as Shochey and Clark (at least those 2) for TDs. How can we expect him to cover RBs like Bush in the flats if he is a nickel LB?


Dont try to twist peoples points with a fancy cut and paste job.

 

[Jarv]

My memory is good, its just short.......but didnt T.Landry "get away" with haveing Bill Bates play LB in the nickel...........opps, my bad.....Roy W isnt near as physical as Bates.................

Right on, thought I posted the same but I either missed a button or it was deleted.

 

[Gordon]

I cut out the other stuff because I had no comment on them, because that's not what I'm trying to argue. I think you're arguing with yourself because you're simply missing the point.

Besides, wasn't it KD that got burnt by Henderson?

EDIT - As for covering Bush in the flat. Well, he's kind of a tough example to use since there aren't many safeties or LB's for that matter than can cover him. That's what's so special about him. Roy Williams would certainly have a better chance than someone like BRadie James though. Fortunately, we don't have to face Reggie Bush every week.

 

[smarta5150]

I cut out the other stuff because I had no comment on them, because that's not what I'm trying to argue. I think you're arguing with yourself because you're simply missing the point.

Besides, wasn't it KD that got burnt by Henderson?

EDIT - As for covering Bush in the flat. Well, he's kind of a tough example to use since there aren't many safeties or LB's for that matter than can cover him. That's what's so special about him. Roy Williams would certainly have a better chance than someone like BRadie James though. Fortunately, we don't have to face Reggie Bush every week.

Well I simply think we need to position our safeties better by putting them in more favorable matchups.

Not leaving them on islands with quick WRs week in and week out.

There is no reason to just sit in this weak zone and let guys like Newman, Glenn, and Henry to cover 15 yards of the field.

Teams stretch the field because we are getting way to predictable with this zone defense.

CBs are arguably the best athletes on the field so why not let them cover their guys 1 on 1 aggressively and let them run down field.

I wish our coaching staff would use a system that fits our players strengths and weaknesses but apparently we like being beat down the field.

 

[Gordon]

Well I simply think we need to position our safeties better by putting them in more favorable matchups.

Not leaving them on islands with quick WRs week in and week out.

There is no reason to just sit in this weak zone and let guys like Newman, Glenn, and Henry to cover 15 yards of the field.

Teams stretch the field because we are getting way to predictable with this zone defense.

CBs are arguably the best athletes on the field so why not let them cover their guys 1 on 1 aggressively and let them run down field.

I wish our coaching staff would use a system that fits our players strengths and weaknesses but apparently we like being beat down the field.

Well, I pretty much agree with everything you said there. Our safeties can't cover, so stop leaving them out there, and stop lining RW up on Shockey 1 on 1 everytime we play the Gmen. I've been saying that for weeks. When (if?) we actually get our hands on an FS capable of playing centerfield, moving RW to LB in the nickel is a luxury we may be able to atleast try.

 

[smarta5150]

Well, I pretty much agree with everything you said there. Our safeties can't cover, so stop leaving them out there, and stop lining RW up on Shockey 1 on 1 everytime we play the Gmen. I've been saying that for weeks. When (if?) we actually get our hands on an FS capable of playing centerfield, moving RW to LB in the nickel is a luxury we may be able to atleast try.

A FS capable of doing anything would be lovely.

I wouldnt be surprised if the trainers have to tie KD's cleats for him before the games.

I wish we would give Watkins more of a shot still.

Davis should see nothing but the special teams plays this weekend and forever.

 

[TEK2000]

Most all of our secondary problems would be eliminated if we had a consistent pass rush. If the QB doesn't have 5 and 6 seconds to throw on every play, our safeties wouldn't be tested on every play like they were during the Saints game.

If our pass rush could simply pressure the QB to where he's only got a max of 3 to 4 seconds to throw, there would be very few opportunities for teams to have enough time to throw the ball deep.

Its like Jimmy Johnson said: "My secondary is as good as my pass rush" (or something along those lines)

 

[smarta5150]

Most all of our secondary problems would be eliminated if we had a consistent pass rush. If the QB doesn't have 5 and 6 seconds to throw on every play, our safeties wouldn't be tested on every play like they were during the Saints game.

If our pass rush could simply pressure the QB to where he's only got a max of 3 to 4 seconds to throw, there would be very few opportunities for teams to have enough time to throw the ball deep.

Its like Jimmy Johnson said: "My secondary is as good as my pass rush" (or something along those lines)

Well the Giants secondary early in the season was a product of their pass rush.

Then they lose their book end DEs and that weak secondary has been getting exposed all season.

I think you have to be pretty good in both imo and not just dominant in 1.

I would take balance any day of the week.

 

[STSINAZ]

give him a bisquit and put him there!

 

[TEK2000]

A FS capable of doing anything would be lovely.

I wouldnt be surprised if the trainers have to tie KD's cleats for him before the games.

I wish we would give Watkins more of a shot still.

Davis should see nothing but the special teams plays this weekend and forever.

IMO, the Devery Henderson TD LIKELY would not have happened had Watkins been in the game.
Davis was not only out of position on the play, but he was out jumped by Henderson for the ball. Henderson went up and got it at a higher point than Davis.
If Watkins had been there, I'm pretty sure he would have been in better position, AND there's NO WAY that Henderson outjumps him to the ball. If Watkins had played that the same way Davis did, Watkins snags that ball at a higher point than Henderson.

I know its pure speculation, but that's my 2 cents on that play.

 

[smarta5150]

IMO, the Devery Henderson TD LIKELY would not have happened had Watkins been in the game.
Davis was not only out of position on the play, but he was out jumped by Henderson for the ball. Henderson went up and got it at a higher point than Davis.
If Watkins had been there, I'm pretty sure he would have been in better position, AND there's NO WAY that Henderson outjumps him to the ball. If Watkins had played that the same way Davis did, Watkins snags that ball at a higher point than Henderson.

I know its pure speculation, but that's my 2 cents on that play.

I dont know why KD didnt hit the WR.

He loves hitting people but instead makes a terrible play on the ball.

He was 3 yards behind him and has zero vertical leap.

He's a waste on defense.

 

[TEK2000]

Well the Giants secondary early in the season was a product of their pass rush.

Then they lose their book end DEs and that weak secondary has been getting exposed all season.

I think you have to be pretty good in both imo and not just dominant in 1.

I would take balance any day of the week.

Balance is great... but I think the pass rush would have a much bigger impact on the secondary than the secondary would the pass rush. There's a few plays a game where the good secondary would cause some coverage sacks... but a good, consistent pass rush would have an impact on nearly every play (some of those plays would be indirect impacts from the QB expecting the pressure)

 

[smarta5150]

Balance is great... but I think the pass rush would have a much bigger impact on the secondary than the secondary would the pass rush. There's a few plays a game where the good secondary would cause some coverage sacks... but a good, consistent pass rush would have an impact on nearly every play (some of those plays would be indirect impacts from the QB expecting the pressure)

Yeah I would love to see some pressure also.

We need someone besides Ware to step up and create a pass rush.

 

[Iago33]

Why isn't Watkins out there full time. Is he that lost? He gave up some plays, but was he worse than KD?

 

[smarta5150]

Why isn't Watkins out there full time. Is he that lost? He gave up some plays, but was he worse than KD?

Confidence got shook.

He looked like he was crying when he gave the 2nd of 2 big plays.

Cant say why KD is on the field.

uke: