CFZ Why the “Run it Back” Philosophy Usually Doesn’t Work

[Bobhaze]

In my opinion, one of the mistakes the Cowboys organization makes over and over is what I will call the “Run it back” philosophy. Which means you decide the core of your team cannot be broken up, (even if it potentially means your team could get better), and decides to “Run it Back” with that same core of players. The same core btw who hasn’t really accomplished much at all in the playoffs.

I am assuming our FO considers these guys the core based on current or future contracts: Dak (good but needs help), Zeke (over the hill), Tyron Smith, (always hurt), Zack Martin (HOFer), Pollard (good but RBs don’t stay good very long), Micah (stud), Diggs (good, not great), Lamb (good, not great), Donovan Wilson (good, not great), perhaps LVE (decent, often hurt, won’t be getting better). I may have left someone out.

Of all those guys, my untouchables are Zack Martin and Micah Parsons. That’s it- that’s the core. I also understand that Dak is here for years to come so he’s going to be part of the core regardless. (Btw, I’m not anti-Dak. I just think he’s a good starting QB who needs lots of support to win playoff games)

The problems with the “Run it back” kind of thinking starts with these questions:

• 1. What have we accomplished WITH those guys? Answer: We have won a couple of wild card games the last 5 years WITH most of those guys. In other words they haven’t accomplished much.
• 2. Can we realistically expect a 4-5 year veteran who has thus far been good, but not great, will somehow in years 6-8 become even better? We know Zeke will continue to slide, Dak needs lots of help, Tyron S may play a couple of games before getting hurt, LVE is one more neck stinger away from retirement. Is that really a core?
• 3. Who on this roster is completely untouchable? Micah and Zack Martin. That’s it. And I would probably listen to a trade option for Martin if it was big enough.

For the record, I’m not saying cut or trade everyone or blowing up the team. I am simply asking:

• Why not re-consider who the core players are or could be? (If the current core is so indepensible, why haven’t we won more playoff games with them?)
• Why not consider adding some guys aren’t here yet to the core? (Isn’t it possible we could get better than what we’ve been?)
• Why keep so many good but not great players at all costs? Maybe we should consider how to get BETTER.
• Why is the “Run it Back” the centerpiece of the future?

What are your thoughts about “Run it back”?

 

[conner01]

I think the whole we like our own guys is over played. We lose players and sign players every year. There are many factors in why you keep a guy. Guys like Tyron has been here a long time and had a HOF career, Martin too
Dlaw was kept because he is an impactful player at a position hard to fill. We’ve over kept a few like most teams have but overall we’ve changed out our core as much as most teams. You can’t really blow it up and change a roster each year
I think they’d like to add but there are cap considerations you have to consider. They want to build through the draft but you can’t draft them all. But through a combination of draft and FA we’ve really upgraded the safety position and that’s the way you have to do it. And they did it without reaching for big names or over paying aging vets

 

[links18]

"We like our guys."

 

[Bobhaze]

I think the whole we like our own guys is over played. We lose players and sign players every year. There are many factors in why you keep a guy. Guys like Tyron has been here a long time and had a HOF career, Martin too
Dlaw was kept because he is an impactful player at a position hard to fill. We’ve over kept a few like most teams have but overall we’ve changed out our core as much as most teams. You can’t really blow it up and change a roster each year

I agree on some of this. But as I stated in the OP, (exact quote- “For the record, I’m not saying cut or trade everyone or blowing up the team”) I’m just saying if we keep the same core players over and over, why should we expect that they will be better? And could we let go of a couple and add some new? That’s what I’m asking.

 

[beware_d-ware]

The core of this team isn't the problem IMO. We could and will be here arguing for months about Dak, but him aside, we've gone 48-34 over the last five years. That is a consistent winner.

The problem especially in the last two years is that we can't get over the top. We've played like a top ten team, but we get dropped in the playoffs by top-five teams. CeeDee is a huge building block for this team, but in the playoffs, we had Noah Brown running across from him. Diggs was complemented by a bunch of street free agents. Etc.

IMO, the root cause is bad second contract decisions that we don't get value for. We tie our hands in free agency because we already wasted that money on Zeke, Jaylon, Gallup, etc. Meanwhile, a dude like Cooper who would've easily returned $20M in value this season got let go.

 

[Bobhaze]

The core of this team isn't the problem IMO. We could and will be here arguing for months about Dak, but we've gone 48-34 over the last five years. That is a consistent winner.

The problem especially in the last two years is that we can't get over the top. We've played like a top ten team, but we get dropped in the playoffs by top-five teams. CeeDee is a huge building block for this team, but in the playoffs, we had Noah Brown running across from him. Diggs was complemented by a bunch of street free agents. Etc.

IMO, the root cause is bad second contract decisions that we don't get value for. We tie our hands in free agency because we already wasted that money on Zeke, Jaylon, Gallup, etc, and dudes like Cooper get let go.

I agree that we can win playoff games with Dak. But it seems pretty clear he needs a lot more help than he’s been given. My question is if all we’ve accomplished to this point with Dak is two WC wins in 7 years, why would we expect in year 8 with the same basic core that we’re going to get better results?

 

[75boyz]

Whatever being just a click away means is the ultimate problem. If you can't acknowledge or more importantly KNOW that you're more than a play away from true contention, than arguing over sticking with the same team is moot regardless.

 

[Diehardblues]

In my opinion, one of the mistakes the Cowboys organization makes over and over is what I will call the “Run it back” philosophy. Which means you decide the core of your team cannot be broken up, (even if it potentially means your team could get better), and decides to “Run it Back” with that same core of players. The same core btw who hasn’t really accomplished much at all in the playoffs.

I am assuming our FO considers these guys the core based on current or future contracts: Dak (good but needs help), Zeke (over the hill), Tyron Smith, (always hurt), Zack Martin (HOFer), Pollard (good but RBs don’t stay good very long), Micah (stud), Diggs (good, not great), Lamb (good, not great), Donovan Wilson (good, not great), perhaps LVE (decent, often hurt, won’t be getting better). I may have left someone out.

Of all those guys, my untouchables are Zack Martin and Micah Parsons. That’s it- that’s the core. I also understand that Dak is here for years to come so he’s going to be part of the core regardless. (Btw, I’m not anti-Dak. I just think he’s a good starting QB who needs lots of support to win playoff games)

The problems with the “Run it back” kind of thinking starts with these questions:

• 1. What have we accomplished WITH those guys? Answer: We have won a couple of wild card games the last 5 years WITH most of those guys. In other words they haven’t accomplished much.
• 2. Can we realistically expect a 4-5 year veteran who has thus far been good, but not great, will somehow in years 6-8 become even better? We know Zeke will continue to slide, Dak needs lots of help, Tyron S may play a couple of games before getting hurt, LVE is one more neck stinger away from retirement. Is that really a core?
• 3. Who on this roster is completely untouchable? Micah and Zack Martin. That’s it. And I would probably listen to a trade option for Martin if it was big enough.

For the record, I’m not saying cut or trade everyone or blowing up the team. I am simply asking:

• Why not re-consider who the core players are or could be? (If the current core is so indepensible, why haven’t we won more playoff games with them?)
• Why not consider adding some guys aren’t here yet to the core? (Isn’t it possible we could get better than what we’ve been?)
• Why keep so many good but not great players at all costs? Maybe we should consider how to get BETTER.
• Why is the “Run it Back” the centerpiece of the future?

What are your thoughts about “Run it back”?

I love the term . And it fits these idiots perfectly.

And I think it’s fairly obvious why we do what we do. It’s working. It delivers for them. Not us but them.

 

[Diehardblues]

I agree that we can win playoff games with Dak. But it seems pretty clear he needs a lot more help than he’s been given. My question is if all we’ve accomplished to this point with Dak is two WC wins in 7 years, why would we expect in year 8 with the same basic core that we’re going to get better results?

We shouldn’t expect more. And it doesn’t really matter if they believe we should or not . They aren’t making better decisions to enhance it.

 

[HungryLion]

In my opinion, one of the mistakes the Cowboys organization makes over and over is what I will call the “Run it back” philosophy. Which means you decide the core of your team cannot be broken up, (even if it potentially means your team could get better), and decides to “Run it Back” with that same core of players. The same core btw who hasn’t really accomplished much at all in the playoffs.

I am assuming our FO considers these guys the core based on current or future contracts: Dak (good but needs help), Zeke (over the hill), Tyron Smith, (always hurt), Zack Martin (HOFer), Pollard (good but RBs don’t stay good very long), Micah (stud), Diggs (good, not great), Lamb (good, not great), Donovan Wilson (good, not great), perhaps LVE (decent, often hurt, won’t be getting better). I may have left someone out.

Of all those guys, my untouchables are Zack Martin and Micah Parsons. That’s it- that’s the core. I also understand that Dak is here for years to come so he’s going to be part of the core regardless. (Btw, I’m not anti-Dak. I just think he’s a good starting QB who needs lots of support to win playoff games)

The problems with the “Run it back” kind of thinking starts with these questions:

• 1. What have we accomplished WITH those guys? Answer: We have won a couple of wild card games the last 5 years WITH most of those guys. In other words they haven’t accomplished much.
• 2. Can we realistically expect a 4-5 year veteran who has thus far been good, but not great, will somehow in years 6-8 become even better? We know Zeke will continue to slide, Dak needs lots of help, Tyron S may play a couple of games before getting hurt, LVE is one more neck stinger away from retirement. Is that really a core?
• 3. Who on this roster is completely untouchable? Micah and Zack Martin. That’s it. And I would probably listen to a trade option for Martin if it was big enough.

For the record, I’m not saying cut or trade everyone or blowing up the team. I am simply asking:

• Why not re-consider who the core players are or could be? (If the current core is so indepensible, why haven’t we won more playoff games with them?)
• Why not consider adding some guys aren’t here yet to the core? (Isn’t it possible we could get better than what we’ve been?)
• Why keep so many good but not great players at all costs? Maybe we should consider how to get BETTER.
• Why is the “Run it Back” the centerpiece of the future?

What are your thoughts about “Run it back”?

When the front office faces zero consequences for failure they can choose to run it back as often as they want.

 

[Diehardblues]

I agree on some of this. But as I stated in the OP, (exact quote- “For the record, I’m not saying cut or trade everyone or blowing up the team”) I’m just saying if we keep the same core players over and over, why should we expect that they will be better? And could we let go of a couple and add some new? That’s what I’m asking.

I think they are pleased with the team and results they are having.

They see themselves as very close .

It’s time to begin getting into their minds and how they think, their priorities and agendas . Not what we want or think.

It’s never going to be normal. Not in a dysfunctional organization and toxic atmosphere.

 

[beware_d-ware]

I agree that we can win playoff games with Dak. But it seems pretty clear he needs a lot more help than he’s been given. My question is if all we’ve accomplished to this point with Dak is two WC wins in 7 years, why would we expect in year 8 with the same basic core that we’re going to get better results?

The top ten players on this roster are rock solid. I don't know how you replace them with better. It's the bottom 80% of the team that we need to worry about IMO.

 

[CowboyRoy]

In my opinion, one of the mistakes the Cowboys organization makes over and over is what I will call the “Run it back” philosophy. Which means you decide the core of your team cannot be broken up, (even if it potentially means your team could get better), and decides to “Run it Back” with that same core of players. The same core btw who hasn’t really accomplished much at all in the playoffs.

I am assuming our FO considers these guys the core based on current or future contracts: Dak (good but needs help), Zeke (over the hill), Tyron Smith, (always hurt), Zack Martin (HOFer), Pollard (good but RBs don’t stay good very long), Micah (stud), Diggs (good, not great), Lamb (good, not great), Donovan Wilson (good, not great), perhaps LVE (decent, often hurt, won’t be getting better). I may have left someone out.

Of all those guys, my untouchables are Zack Martin and Micah Parsons. That’s it- that’s the core. I also understand that Dak is here for years to come so he’s going to be part of the core regardless. (Btw, I’m not anti-Dak. I just think he’s a good starting QB who needs lots of support to win playoff games)

The problems with the “Run it back” kind of thinking starts with these questions:

• 1. What have we accomplished WITH those guys? Answer: We have won a couple of wild card games the last 5 years WITH most of those guys. In other words they haven’t accomplished much.
• 2. Can we realistically expect a 4-5 year veteran who has thus far been good, but not great, will somehow in years 6-8 become even better? We know Zeke will continue to slide, Dak needs lots of help, Tyron S may play a couple of games before getting hurt, LVE is one more neck stinger away from retirement. Is that really a core?
• 3. Who on this roster is completely untouchable? Micah and Zack Martin. That’s it. And I would probably listen to a trade option for Martin if it was big enough.

For the record, I’m not saying cut or trade everyone or blowing up the team. I am simply asking:

• Why not re-consider who the core players are or could be? (If the current core is so indepensible, why haven’t we won more playoff games with them?)
• Why not consider adding some guys aren’t here yet to the core? (Isn’t it possible we could get better than what we’ve been?)
• Why keep so many good but not great players at all costs? Maybe we should consider how to get BETTER.
• Why is the “Run it Back” the centerpiece of the future?

What are your thoughts about “Run it back”?

Cowboys would be legitimate contenders if they made a handful of moves:

-Let Zeke and Tyron walk and use that money to sign a stud guard and stud MLB or DT. Two of the 3.

-Use our first round pick on the TE Mayer out of Notre Dame or you could take the stud guard here.
-Use 2nd round pick on a CB or LB
-Use one of the next two picks on a stud RB in the draft to team with Pollard
-Sign a veteran back for cheap that is more of a thumper and go out and get a #3 caliber veteran WR.
-Need swing Tackle. Like a Peters.

 

[xwalker]

In my opinion, one of the mistakes the Cowboys organization makes over and over is what I will call the “Run it back” philosophy. Which means you decide the core of your team cannot be broken up, (even if it potentially means your team could get better), and decides to “Run it Back” with that same core of players. The same core btw who hasn’t really accomplished much at all in the playoffs.

I am assuming our FO considers these guys the core based on current or future contracts: Dak (good but needs help), Zeke (over the hill), Tyron Smith, (always hurt), Zack Martin (HOFer), Pollard (good but RBs don’t stay good very long), Micah (stud), Diggs (good, not great), Lamb (good, not great), Donovan Wilson (good, not great), perhaps LVE (decent, often hurt, won’t be getting better). I may have left someone out.

Of all those guys, my untouchables are Zack Martin and Micah Parsons. That’s it- that’s the core. I also understand that Dak is here for years to come so he’s going to be part of the core regardless. (Btw, I’m not anti-Dak. I just think he’s a good starting QB who needs lots of support to win playoff games)

The problems with the “Run it back” kind of thinking starts with these questions:

• 1. What have we accomplished WITH those guys? Answer: We have won a couple of wild card games the last 5 years WITH most of those guys. In other words they haven’t accomplished much.
• 2. Can we realistically expect a 4-5 year veteran who has thus far been good, but not great, will somehow in years 6-8 become even better? We know Zeke will continue to slide, Dak needs lots of help, Tyron S may play a couple of games before getting hurt, LVE is one more neck stinger away from retirement. Is that really a core?
• 3. Who on this roster is completely untouchable? Micah and Zack Martin. That’s it. And I would probably listen to a trade option for Martin if it was big enough.

For the record, I’m not saying cut or trade everyone or blowing up the team. I am simply asking:

• Why not re-consider who the core players are or could be? (If the current core is so indepensible, why haven’t we won more playoff games with them?)
• Why not consider adding some guys aren’t here yet to the core? (Isn’t it possible we could get better than what we’ve been?)
• Why keep so many good but not great players at all costs? Maybe we should consider how to get BETTER.
• Why is the “Run it Back” the centerpiece of the future?

What are your thoughts about “Run it back”?

Mindless drivel.

This thread/post is all just your random opinions without any facts to back it up. You have no idea how other teams operate on a multi-year basis.

 

[JW82]

They are the only team that doesn’t win anything but can’t wait to “run it back”.

 

[doomsday9084]

I think Jerry bases a ton of his decision making on his 90's run. The team obviously re-tooled after the 1-15 season but once they were 7-9, they largely just "ran it back" every year while adding players from the draft (sound familiar?).

The 7-9 Cowboys had on the roster: Aikman, Irvin, Emmitt, Novachek, Tuinei, Stepnoski, Newton, Noonan, Norton Jr, Johnston, Jeffcoat, Tolbert and Washington. Basically, a huge part of the core was there and they got better and better.

The thing I think Jerry misses is:
- That team was super young. Its nothing like the current team with lots of vets. You could expect them to improve.
- The team had a ton of future picks still to work with to improve the team
- There was no salary cap yet

Basically, he is never, ever, ever going to recreate that situation despite him trying every year.

 

[75boyz]

I agree that we can win playoff games with Dak. But it seems pretty clear he needs a lot more help than he’s been given. My question is if all we’ve accomplished to this point with Dak is two WC wins in 7 years, why would we expect in year 8 with the same basic core that we’re going to get better results?

"THIS" is the foundation of the problem. With all due respect, and whether you want to disagree or not with the likes of me, Mountain, Risen, Pappy, Khiladi etc...

Dak ain't winning 3 or 4 consecutive playoff games regardless of coaching, playcalling or personnel support.

Having that many stars to align ain't happening no matter how you may want to compare past playoff runs accomplished by the same or lesser QBs than Dak.

It ain't happening here.

THAT is my reality with THIS QB.

 

[Bobhaze]

Mindless drivel.

This thread/post is all just your random opinions without any facts to back it up. You have no idea how other teams operate on a multi-year basis.

Ok. So enlighten us with your knowledge. Are you content with what we’ve been getting in the playoffs? What do you like, not like? Are we not “running it back” with the same core?

I welcome your disagreement but all you’ve offered is to call this thread “mindless drivel”. That seems like a pretty mindless response. Without any other feedback other than insults, what are you actually offering here? Argue something. Bring it! Otherwise this is just another emotional dive-bomber response which is pretty weak sauce.

 

[Big_D]

Cowboys are last in the league in signing outside free agents. It's a ridiculously stupid philosophy and it hasn't worked yet.

 

[CATCH17]

I think the reality is the Jones’s know that being aggressive means giving up mediocrity and relevance long term which is bad for business.