Why the “We like our Guys” mantra is killing this team

[jterrell]

The Cowboys aren't cheap. They had the highest payroll in the NFL in 2021.

The problem is they make bad investment choices when it comes to players.

No offense but that is all meaningless.
Dallas chose what to allow some big contracts hit the cap as.
Having X spend on cap is hardly the same as actually spending to go win a title.
You shouldn't leverage future cap space all the time. I agree with Stephen there.

But you should when you are easily the most talented team in your division.
And when the cap is expected to grow at historic levels as it is over the next 3-4 seasons.

Teams going all in over a 2-3 year stretch have proven you can in fact win that way. See Denver, Philly. TB.

Put another way had Dallas signed a couple more vets last year perhaps they get past SF and make a SB. If so then you cut a couple guys or whatever but have a SB appearance on the books to go so from.
As the cap is elastic you want to stretch it in seasons where you have a contender and contract it when you are going to be poor.
Dallas has been very reluctant to stretch the cap for about 6-7 years now.

 

[jterrell]

We "like our guys" b/c we don't know the other guys. The Jones don't make big changes b/c they don't really follow football beyond that of a casual fantasy football fan who knows the big names but gets lost after round 4.

That is absurd and completely untrue.
Dallas free agency chases are not led by a Jones except the ultra-rare case where Jerry wants a guy to sell jerseys.
Stephen however does define the spend.
Stephen has often pointed to the poor history of free agent signings and rightfully so. But that isn't just Dallas it is across the board in the league.
FA tend to be older which are more injury prone.
Will McClay runs personnel, and he does a good job but he only has as much to spend as Stephen allows.

Our issue is conservative cap mgmt in seasons when that is a limiting factor.

 

[Jake]

No offense but that is all meaningless.
Dallas chose what to allow some big contracts hit the cap as.
Having X spend on cap is hardly the same as actually spending to go win a title.
You shouldn't leverage future cap space all the time. I agree with Stephen there.

But you should when you are easily the most talented team in your division.
And when the cap is expected to grow at historic levels as it is over the next 3-4 seasons.

Teams going all in over a 2-3 year stretch have proven you can in fact win that way. See Denver, Philly. TB.

Put another way had Dallas signed a couple more vets last year perhaps they get past SF and make a SB. If so then you cut a couple guys or whatever but have a SB appearance on the books to go so from.
As the cap is elastic you want to stretch it in seasons where you have a contender and contract it when you are going to be poor.
Dallas has been very reluctant to stretch the cap for about 6-7 years now.

No offense, but nothing you said here refutes what I posted. Your theories on Stephen Jones are irrelevant to that response.

I simply responded to the notion that Cowboys are "cheap" with the fact that they had the highest payroll in the NFL in 2021.

The issue is, and has been, long-term investments in players who aren't good enough to get the Cowboys over the top.

 

[CCBoy]

No offense but that is all meaningless.
Dallas chose what to allow some big contracts hit the cap as.
Having X spend on cap is hardly the same as actually spending to go win a title.
You shouldn't leverage future cap space all the time. I agree with Stephen there.

But you should when you are easily the most talented team in your division.
And when the cap is expected to grow at historic levels as it is over the next 3-4 seasons.

Teams going all in over a 2-3 year stretch have proven you can in fact win that way. See Denver, Philly. TB.

Put another way had Dallas signed a couple more vets last year perhaps they get past SF and make a SB. If so then you cut a couple guys or whatever but have a SB appearance on the books to go so from.
As the cap is elastic you want to stretch it in seasons where you have a contender and contract it when you are going to be poor.
Dallas has been very reluctant to stretch the cap for about 6-7 years now.

Wise words, and Stephen is about ten years behind the concept of building from the financial chaos of the dynasty decline period. He has a business role of earning money and protecting that for the franchise now, for a false term of stability.

Instead of using the competitive venue of gambling for a huge win and gaining the extremes of financial successes that evolve from the 'big game,' Stephen has been the conscience of a simple but non dynamic path of take your own players that are grass roots acquired, and pay them through a second contract.

Until the organization was good enough to sustain itself and make draft successes achieve player quality, Jerry's path of buying flashy athletes and gambling on finding gold at the end of a rainbow, was fool's gold.

This fan, if I were Jerry, would take Stephen to the wood shed, and inform him that this group was going to be extended with multiple contracts that additionally made room, with about a surplus of about $50 Million, to get a pair of very high visibility defensive players. One would be in the secondary, either a top safety or a top cornerback. Me, a cornerback. Then a top notched defensive end, and rotate with who is currently on the defensive side of ball.

I would mortgage the top of the 2023 draft and get the two top linemen, one an offensive lineman and one a defensive lineman, from this year's draft. I would do what it took to walk off with two legitimate studs in the first round. Me, an offensive center and a defensive tackle that would project also into a second contract. I would settle for a top defensive end with an interior offensive lineman, but get both now.

I would make the move through this off season and in the process, forge a disciplined and committed team, that has little to be desired on either side of the ball.

I would not so much as hesitate a second here, and get all done.

 

[CCBoy]

That is absurd and completely untrue.
Dallas free agency chases are not led by a Jones except the ultra-rare case where Jerry wants a guy to sell jerseys.
Stephen however does define the spend.
Stephen has often pointed to the poor history of free agent signings and rightfully so. But that isn't just Dallas it is across the board in the league.
FA tend to be older which are more injury prone.
Will McClay runs personnel, and he does a good job but he only has as much to spend as Stephen allows.

Our issue is conservative cap mgmt in seasons when that is a limiting factor.

This is just the wrong season to risk this coaching staff and roster upon a 'catch-up' stabilizer when the spirit of the sport is gambled upon and lost with a restricting principal not applicable here and now. Wake up Stephen, while in a Chinese Olympics - troops are being amassed by the Russians...and our Cowboys have to start beating some really good teams now.

 

[doomsday9084]

That would be admitting that he and/or Stephen made mistakes. His ego doesn't allow for it.

Days after the Niners loss he reiterated that he still believes he has a Super Bowl team. In other words, that they fell short (again) wasn't his fault.

I agree. His stance on that was disturbing to the point where he looks delusional. IMO, a lot of the source for the pessimism on this board is Jerry's take on the situation. If you don't think anything is wrong, you aren't going to change anything and you are just doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

 

[G2]

The best way to overcome a disappointing season is to not change anything.

 

[CouchCoach]

The Booger Mantra. I am special. I chose you; therefore, you are special. I am the reason everyone wants to be a Cowboy.

The reason he cannot change is that he refuses to see what others see. He is a delusional egotist that surrounds himself with people that support that. He is truly a legend in his own mind.

 

[CCBoy]

Ah, the life insurance quote conversation again and the obligatory Hillbilly ballad that goes along with it...

 

[willia451]

I disagree. I think their core mission is to remain competitive in the division and to qualify for the playoffs more often than not.

Anything else is optional.

How can the season be called a failure if you won your division and made the playoffs?

What they want to avoid at all costs is 3 5-11 or 3 8-8 seasons back to back to back. Because then people start really laying the wood on them and calling them bad names.

Just remain in a position to keep hope alive and sell the Kool-Aid.

That's all they really care about.

 

[DenCWBY]

How many times have we heard the lazy voice of Stephen Jones answer a softball question on his “radio show” regarding roster changes with the tired phrase, “We like our guys”…?

Why is this such a bad statement from an NFL team’s front office? Because teams winning SBs are usually kings of the “roster churn”- the constant evaluation of its talent to cut free from those that don’t absolutely make your team better and avoid fond connections with players because you like them.

In short, good NFL front office people don’t over-value their own players or they lose their jobs! They have a few years to win playoff games or find a new address. Nothing motivates talent evaluation like job security.

Well, here’s some clear evidence that this Jones front office over-values its own players:

• The NFL average retention of their own drafted players is 23.
• The last 53 man roster of the 2021 Cowboys contained 30 players that had been originally drafted by the Cowboys, including several on their second contracts. That’s a lot more than most teams. And it could have been higher if we hadn’t released Jaylon Smith and his bloated contract this last fall.
• For some comparisons, last year’s SB champs the Buccaneers only had 19 of its 53 man roster retained from its drafts.
• It’s good to have successful draft picks. But you should NOT re-sign marginal players to second contracts that are just ok.

That means that the avg NFL team does not retain as many of its drafted players as the Cowboys do. The Cowboys sign more of their drafted players to second contracts than almost all other NFL teams.

“We like our guys” is a sadly honest statement from the Jones Boys. If your name is Jones and you work in the Cowboys front office, there are no consequences for “liking the wrong guys”.

In Big D- “We like our guys”- Therefore the roster churn is very, very slow. As are the playoff wins.

Great take and this again says it all. Our FO is lazy, arrogant and plain ignorant as to managing what they have and what it takes to win in todays market. Yes they hired a few guys around them to compete however it's ultimately like we have all (but a few) have said. The top of the FO can sleep all night and smile in the mirror as they have no one to answer to.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

26 years of the same and counting.

 

[Bobhaze]

Ah, the life insurance quote conversation again and the obligatory Hillbilly ballad that goes along with it...

Or was it the new pants quote conversation and the obligatory Wall Street ditty that goes along with it? Or was it the green hornet video behind the obligatory ranch music on a 78 record?

 

[CCBoy]

Or was it the new pants quote conversation and the obligatory Wall Street ditty that goes along with it? Or was it the green hornet video behind the obligatory ranch music on a 78 record?

Don't know Hill Billy music, huh....

Knock her down again, Pa...knock her down again. Make her tell us why Pa, she was out late last night...



Or, a Hill Billy Ballad...

There's a hole in the bucket, Dear Eliza, Dear Eliza....there's a hole in the bucket...Dear Eliza my love.

Well, mend it Dear Henry, Dear Henry...well mend it, Dear Henry...Dear Henry my love.

 

[Bobhaze]

Don't know Hill Billy music, huh....

Knock her down again, Pa...knock her down again. Make her tell us why Pa, she was out late last night...



Or, a Hill Billy Ballad...

There's a hole in the bucket, Dear Eliza, Dear Eliza....there's a hole in the bucket...Dear Eliza my love.
Well, mend it Dear Henry, Dear Henry...well mend it, Dear Henry...Dear Henry my love.

”Yes and of course we will and I’m smiling when I say that, and relative to being lower than a cricket’s butt, I’m comfortable with ambiguity, and want to make this off season uncomfortable, and yes we of course had.”

Apologies for the above response. I was temporarily “communicating in Jerry”.

 

[CCBoy]

”Yes and of course we will and I’m smiling when I say that, and relative to being lower than a cricket’s butt, I’m comfortable with ambiguity, and want to make this off season uncomfortable, and yes we of course had.”

Apologies for the above response. I was temporarily “communicating in Jerry”.

This past season was this fan's line in the sand at the Alamo with Jerry and Stephen...they are now accountable - even with Santa Ana and Commanches at the door...they better be proactive more than just the past ten seasons now. That, or I may be more active in their descriptions myself.

Rules are only good when they solve what they were designed to remedy...this team needs to progress yet again, and it stops at the footsteps of both Jerry and Stephen right now. But unlike many on sight, they will be given an opportunity by this fan, to rise to the demands of real opportunities. I am still a fan, first...not another Hill Billy.

 

[Thomas82]

How many times have we heard the lazy voice of Stephen Jones answer a softball question on his “radio show” regarding roster changes with the tired phrase, “We like our guys”…?

Why is this such a bad statement from an NFL team’s front office? Because teams winning SBs are usually kings of the “roster churn”- the constant evaluation of its talent to cut free from those that don’t absolutely make your team better and avoid fond connections with players because you like them.

In short, good NFL front office people don’t over-value their own players or they lose their jobs! They have a few years to win playoff games or find a new address. Nothing motivates talent evaluation like job security.

Well, here’s some clear evidence that this Jones front office over-values its own players:

• The NFL average retention of their own drafted players is 23.
• The last 53 man roster of the 2021 Cowboys contained 30 players that had been originally drafted by the Cowboys, including several on their second contracts. That’s a lot more than most teams. And it could have been higher if we hadn’t released Jaylon Smith and his bloated contract this last fall.
• For some comparisons, last year’s SB champs the Buccaneers only had 19 of its 53 man roster retained from its drafts.
• It’s good to have successful draft picks. But you should NOT re-sign marginal players to second contracts that are just ok.

That means that the avg NFL team does not retain as many of its drafted players as the Cowboys do. The Cowboys sign more of their drafted players to second contracts than almost all other NFL teams.

“We like our guys” is a sadly honest statement from the Jones Boys. If your name is Jones and you work in the Cowboys front office, there are no consequences for “liking the wrong guys”.

In Big D- “We like our guys”- Therefore the roster churn is very, very slow. As are the playoff wins.

 

[IslandCowboy]

You need to be willing to move on from players even though they might have a couple years left in them instead of signing them to mega deals i.e. Crawford and several others. This is the "Patriot away". It is also evident from the arms success that you do not have to solely build through the draft. Most of their players they obtained through trades and free agency and the players they did draft are impactful.

Jerry is just too scared of making mistakes and letting someone walk and having them go on to have a HOF career somewhere else so he holds on too long.

This is why we are never going anywhere with the Jones' at the helm.

 

[CCBoy]

You need to be willing to move on from players even though they might have a couple years left in them instead of signing them to mega deals i.e. Crawford and several others. This is the "Patriot away". It is also evident from the arms success that you do not have to solely build through the draft. Most of their players they obtained through trades and free agency and the players they did draft are impactful.

Jerry is just too scared of making mistakes and letting someone walk and having them go on to have a HOF career somewhere else so he holds on too long.

This is why we are never going anywhere with the Jones' at the helm.

Just get rid of an aging player instead of hone solutions with experienced talent? New England based championships on just this kind of dedicated talent. Dallas unable to get the job done? I'm not buying that either...

 

[KJJ]

What else is Stephen going to say but they like their guys? He certainly isn’t going to say they don’t like them. lol It’s all part of saying all the right things. They said they’ve liked players they ended up cutting. Stephen talked about how much he loved Dez and thought the world of him after he was released. The Joneses are broken records.