Why you don't need to tank

[CowboyinMD]

So convince me how a meaningless win (or wins) in December has/have any bearing on 2021 season..

At least compared to the difference in draft position, assuming you're not going to the postseason anyway.

If Dallas would ends with 5 wins vs. 4, or get a 6th win instead of 5, are you convinced that "momentum' rolls over to 2021?

Similarly, had they lost out and stayed in the top 5 draft wise, the sheer value of that pick, in the event they opted to trade down, is exponentially better than at 10 or just outside the top 10. And, it's not like come September 2021 you'll even remember these meaningless games. It's not like had Dallas lost out you'd be saying in Sept 2021 "gosh, we'd be so much better now had we been 6-10 instead of 4-12."

Outside of a lottery system (which the NFL will have to impose sooner than later), I just don't see how you don't root for a tank when your playoff hopes are slim at best. If you ain't getting into the postseason, 6-10, 7-9, 8-8 does NOTHING for you going forward. How many meaningless 8-8 seasons did we have under Garrett?

Considering all the players we have coming back next season (potentially), including Dak, 4-12 wouldn't have mattered and we all know it. 6-10 or 7-9 doesn't matter either...except it nets Dallas a lower draft pick in each round.

To the anti-tankers, I don't get it. I don't blame the team for trying to win, that's what you like to see. But I don't get rooting for these meaningless wins.

Come back to me in April and tell me how happy you are with this win. Talk to me in September and tell me how a meaningless win with your backup QB and RB today factors in to next year.

If we'd have a shot at the post season, I'd feel differently. But I don't see the WFT losing out

 

[KB1122]

We need to lose next week, for sure.

 

[Beast_from_East]

We are now picking 9th.

Still in the top 10, so all is not lost.

 

[gjkoeppen]

WE KNOW.

However, trying to claim that it's not better to pick towards the top is simply foolish.

Yes the odds are better the higher a team picks but since more HOFer's were drafted beyond the 10th pick to tank or not to want your team to win just to get a higher pick is just as foolish to then claim to be a fan of that team.
.
.

 

[MoistMayonnaise]

Yes the odds are better the higher a team picks but since more HOFer's were drafted beyond the 10th pick to tank or not to want your team to win just to get a higher pick is just as foolish to then claim to be a fan of that team.
.
.

Another false quivalency. Man you people. Of course there are more HOF players outside the top ten picks. They also out number those top ten picks by 30ish to 1 all time.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You have got to be kidding. I am far from alone.

Evaluating drafting short term can be done by pro bowlers, sure. But, long term, it's about W's. This is just common sense.

Winning is the bottom line. You aren't alone ksk.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But if we don't draft well because we have a losing record then what's the point?

This, to me, is kind of like saying, "But if you don't cook well, because the food does not taste as good as other peoples, then we should just stop eating and starve."

I don't get that at all.

 

[kskboys]

Yes the odds are better the higher a team picks but since more HOFer's were drafted beyond the 10th pick to tank or not to want your team to win just to get a higher pick is just as foolish to then claim to be a fan of that team.
.
.

No, that's your fandom making stuff up. There is absolutely no need to attempt cheap insults solely because people disagree w/ you.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This team doesn't need a franchise QB because it already has one. This team needs defensive playmakers.. You don't need to be in the top 5 or even the top 10 to find those. Especially in the positions of greatest need for this team. Namely DT, and safety. EVERY NFL team should be "not trying to draft at the top of the draft" because EVERY NFL team should be trying to win every time they kick off on Sunday. TRYING to draft at the top of the draft is not supported, in general. Because it means TRYING to lose which flies in the face of everything most true competitors know and feel about the nature of competition itself. You don't try to lose.. ever.. You don't not give your all.. ever.. I don't want any player or coach associated with my team who doesn't share those two basic beliefs. Ever.

Is he signed? Is Dak signed? If he's not signed, then you don't have one. EOS.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

We are now picking 9th.

Still in the top 10, so all is not lost.

We are gonna end up picking around 12, or so, IMO.

 

[RonnieT24]

Is he signed? Is Dak signed? If he's not signed, then you don't have one. EOS.

He's under contract to the Cowboys until after the Super Bowl.. so yeah.. he's signed..

 

[gjkoeppen]

No, that's your fandom making stuff up. There is absolutely no need to attempt cheap insults solely because people disagree w/ you.

I don't think it's a cheap shot. I honestly believe that anyone that wants their team to lose for whatever reason is really not a fan of that team. At best they are a fair weather fan and fair weather fans are just bought fans with wins and when the wins aren't there neither are the fair weather fans.
.
.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

Winning is the bottom line. You aren't alone ksk.

Winning isn't important to the Dallas Jerry's. I doubt if it is in the top 5 list of things this organization cares about.

 

[kskboys]

I don't think it's a cheap shot. I honestly believe that anyone that wants their team to lose for whatever reason is really not a fan of that team. At best they are a fair weather fan and fair weather fans are just bought fans with wins and when the wins aren't there neither are the fair weather fans.
.
.

I believe you're a terrible fan because you don't want better players to win super bowls.

See? G, there is simply no reason to insult others. It's really stupid. RonnieT and I disagree on this, but we've yet to throw an insult. It's childish.

 

[gjkoeppen]

He's under contract to the Cowboys until after the Super Bowl.. so yeah.. he's signed..

Actually technically if things remain as is right now the Cowboys control Prescott until free agency starts in 2021. Now after this season is over they can try to sign him to a long term contract and if that fails they can tag him again and still have until July 15th to get a long term contract signed.
.
.

 

[RonnieT24]

I believe you're a terrible fan because you don't want better players to win super bowls.

See? G, there is simply no reason to insult others. It's really stupid. RonnieT and I disagree on this, but we've yet to throw an insult. It's childish.

Yeah it's reasonable that some fans will believe that drafting higher is better in the long run for the team.. Then I think of teams that rarely draft high like the Steelers and the Pats and a few others and yet manage to always be good and to me it underscores that coaching and culture are waaaay more important than high draft picks. Ask Cleveland.. they're about to break a 20 year playoff drought after drafting at the bottom for two decades. Why? Not because of their high draft picks.. but because they finally got a coach who can actually coach. One who figures out what his players can do well and asks them to do those things while not asking them to do things they don't do well. I am firmly of the belief that pretty much all the guys who make it to the NFL have talent.. Especially those taken in the first round but even a lot of guys who are taken later have talent but perhaps need to be developed. Maybe they played in a crappy system in college.. maybe they were out of position in college.. whatever. Remember Darren Woodson was a linebacker in college.. So was Randy White if I'm not mistaken. But these guys are almost all ridiculously gifted athletically. Even the biggest fattest sluggest looking lineman would outrun 90% of the people on this board in a 40. The difference is nearly always coaching.. Tom Landry pretty much refused to play Nate Newton because he couldn't get his weight down under 300 pounds.. Jimmy watched him move at 330 and said "Who gives a flip if he is over 300 pounds.. that dude can play!!" Nate was a superb athlete who in high school was once clocked at 4.6 in the 40 at 270 pounds.. Sure it was hand timed by his coach running downhill with the wind but still.. You get the point.. if McCarthy builds a culture that lets us ALWAYS be drafting in the 20's or higher.. none of us will care that he doesn't get any top 10 picks .. Coaching matters.. There are 200 good football players made available in the draft every spring. If you do your homework and get yourself 5-6 of them every year you will always be a good team. Provided you can coach them. There are maybe 10 potentially GREAT players in each draft.. and not all of them will be drafted in the top 10.. History and statistics say more of them won't.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He's under contract to the Cowboys until after the Super Bowl.. so yeah.. he's signed..

Look, if you want to act stupid with somebody else, then fine, go find that person and knock yourself out. We are talking about the draft, which is not now and you know it. When you are drafting, if you don't have a signed QB, then you don't have a QB and you know full well that this is the case.

If you want to discuss something, then try to be adult about the conversation. We are grown people here.

 

[kskboys]

Yeah it's reasonable that some fans will believe that drafting higher is better in the long run for the team.. Then I think of teams that rarely draft high like the Steelers and the Pats and a few others and yet manage to always be good and to me it underscores that coaching and culture are waaaay more important than high draft picks. Ask Cleveland.. they're about to break a 20 year playoff drought after drafting at the bottom for two decades. Why? Not because of their high draft picks.. but because they finally got a coach who can actually coach. One who figures out what his players can do well and asks them to do those things while not asking them to do things they don't do well. I am firmly of the belief that pretty much all the guys who make it to the NFL have talent.. Especially those taken in the first round but even a lot of guys who are taken later have talent but perhaps need to be developed. Maybe they played in a crappy system in college.. maybe they were out of position in college.. whatever. Remember Darren Woodson was a linebacker in college.. So was Randy White if I'm not mistaken. But these guys are almost all ridiculously gifted athletically. Even the biggest fattest sluggest looking lineman would outrun 90% of the people on this board in a 40. The difference is nearly always coaching.. Tom Landry pretty much refused to play Nate Newton because he couldn't get his weight down under 300 pounds.. Jimmy watched him move at 330 and said "Who gives a flip if he is over 300 pounds.. that dude can play!!" Nate was a superb athlete who in high school was once clocked at 4.6 in the 40 at 270 pounds.. Sure it was hand timed by his coach running downhill with the wind but still.. You get the point.. if McCarthy builds a culture that lets us ALWAYS be drafting in the 20's or higher.. none of us will care that he doesn't get any top 10 picks .. Coaching matters.. There are 200 good football players made available in the draft every spring. If you do your homework and get yourself 5-6 of them every year you will always be a good team. Provided you can coach them. There are maybe 10 potentially GREAT players in each draft.. and not all of them will be drafted in the top 10.. History and statistics say more of them won't.

Agree completely.

Only place we disagree is that I'd love to lose out and get a Chase Young type. Now, there's apparently not one in this draft, so losing for picks this year may be irrelevant anyway. Unless you're in the Barbie sweepstakes, of course.

Did you know how Jimmy got Nate to get in shape? Challenged him to a foot race and beat him!!!!! Great stuff!!!!!

IMO, Nate should be in the HOF. He was that good.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I believe you're a terrible fan because you don't want better players to win super bowls.

See? G, there is simply no reason to insult others. It's really stupid. RonnieT and I disagree on this, but we've yet to throw an insult. It's childish.

It would be an insult if it was directed at an specific individual but I didn't do that. I said anyone. If saying that is such a terrible insult what to you call those that call all of those who don't like Prescott and want him off the team period as Prescott haters?

At no time did I say I don't want the Cowboys to win Super Bowls, in fact I've said more times than I can count that I wish the Cowboys win the Super Bowl every year. What the difference between what I think and those that want the Cowboys to lose just for a higher draft pick is I know that there are more HOFer's that were drafted outside of the top 5 picks so teams can get really good players without losing and getting a top 5 draft pick There are players that were drafted in other than the 1st round and I can think of one off the top of my head that wasn't drafted by any team.

Those that say that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the Cowboys losing games for a higher draft pick say that just to cover their butts for stop being Cowboys fans and wanting them to lose. So they then question if those that oppose them if they don't want the Cowboys to win Super Bowls but I've already proved that is wrong and picking out of the top 5 picks has produced more HOFer players than those taken in the top 5 picks.. I don't care what legit dictionary you want to use, show me in the definition for the word fan where it says that a fan wants what they are a fan of to lose.
.
.

 

[kskboys]

It would be an insult if it was directed at an specific individual but I didn't do that. I said anyone. If saying that is such a terrible insult what to you call those that call all of those who don't like Prescott and want him off the team period as Prescott haters?

At no time did I say I don't want the Cowboys to win Super Bowls, in fact I've said more times than I can count that I wish the Cowboys win the Super Bowl every year. What the difference between what I think and those that want the Cowboys to lose just for a higher draft pick is I know that there are more HOFer's that were drafted outside of the top 5 picks so teams can get really good players without losing and getting a top 5 draft pick There are players that were drafted in other than the 1st round and I can think of one off the top of my head that wasn't drafted by any team.

Those that say that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the Cowboys losing games for a higher draft pick say that just to cover their butts for stop being Cowboys fans and wanting them to lose. So they then question if those that oppose them if they don't want the Cowboys to win Super Bowls but I've already proved that is wrong and picking out of the top 5 picks has produced more HOFer players than those taken in the top 5 picks.. I don't care what legit dictionary you want to use, show me in the definition for the word fan where it says that a fan wants what they are a fan of to lose.
.
.

Ok, then explain to me why you think it is up to you to determine the fanhood of others.