Will The Costa-Haters still hate If he shows improvement?

[Idgit]

No... That's not true.

Gurode definitely was not drafted as a center.

Him playing center was an afterthought because he had not played well at guard.

IIRC, he was drafted as OC and started there as a rookie. It was Parcels who moved him to OG and then later concluded that was a mistake and returned him to OC.

Either way, the point is well taken that Gurode needed time to develop. Most young OL do, which is why it's foolish for people to write off Costa so quickly.

Dallas' mistake wasn't in trying to develop Costa, it's in leaving us thin at the position if Costa doesn't continue to improve. We don't have sufficient options at OC.

The fact is last year he sucked. If he improves and can be a decent center obviously the hate will go away. All he has to beat out this year is another UDFA, whcih shouldn't be hard. He was not ready last year.

This isn't a fact. The fact is there were times last year where he sucked. But early on, Jerry has said publicly that he had games where he was our highest-scored OL player. After there was enough tape on him, teams started to figure out how to attack him b/c he was slow getting out of his stance. He adjusted to this later in the year and his play improved again. Maybe not sufficiently, but he improved.

The mistake people are making is in thinking players are finished products by the time they become starters. Clearly, they don't. People actually do learn from experience and the question becomes can they learn enough, quickly enough to not be a liability to the rest of the team by the end of the season. We've seen this with Romo. We're seeing it now with Dez. We're going to see it with Claiborne, and with Matt Johnson if he gets any snaps. Costa's not any different from these other players other than the fact that he's an UDFA acquisiton with short arms and people have no faith in him as a result.

But the team had options at OC this off season. A lot of them. They chose to do nothing, and we're going to have to wait to see if that was a mistake or not. Personally, I think it was. Just like not bringing in another NFL-quality DB was a mistake last year. But I also know that, with a very few exceptions, posters on CZ aren't actually qualified to judge the quality of any OC's play over the course of a season.

Instead, people rely on a few very public snaps and on the rankings of sites that purport to do the research for them. So getting too worked up because of your faith in somebody else's analysis is foolish. When it comes to play in the trenches, most of us are going to have to be patient and see what happens.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

IIRC, he was drafted as OC and started there as a rookie. It was Parcels who moved him to OG and then later concluded that was a mistake and returned him to OC.

Either way, the point is well taken that Gurode needed time to develop. Most young OL do, which is why it's foolish for people to write off Costa so quickly.

Dallas' mistake wasn't in trying to develop Costa, it's in leaving us thin at the position if Costa doesn't continue to improve. We don't have sufficient options at OC.

Well with two folks saying that the Cowboys drafted Gurode as a center and not a guard, then I'll have to accept my "medicine" and stand corrected.

 

[jnday]

Well with two folks saying that the Cowboys drafted Gurode as a center and not a guard, then I'll have to accept my "medicine" and stand corrected.

You just got caught talking out of your rear end like the rest of us. It happens. LOL

 

[burmafrd]

Gurode actually played decently as a center while a rookie. Much better then costa was in every way.

But BP thought he would be a better Guard and drafted Johnson as a center since he liked quick centers and big guards. But Johnson could not keep the weight on and got pushed around especially late in the season. Eventually he got so desperate he started on steroids and got caught in the end after he left the boys.

 

[Langonelives]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1052850-br-nfl-1000-top-32-centers/page/4

He is ranked 30 of 32 starting centers. He may have played well in a few games, but he played bad a lot. I stand by my statement.

 

[Idgit]

Gurode actually played decently as a center while a rookie. Much better then costa was in every way.

But BP thought he would be a better Guard and drafted Johnson as a center since he liked quick centers and big guards. But Johnson could not keep the weight on and got pushed around especially late in the season. Eventually he got so desperate he started on steroids and got caught in the end after he left the boys.

I'm not sure how you're measuring Gurode's rookie performance at OC against Costa's, because, frankly, I don't believe anyone here remembers OC play from 2002 all that clearly. But he got moved to OG during his rookie year because of injury-juggling on the OL. Parcels came in the next year and kept him at OG where he was eventually benched before getting moved back to OC. The point is, Gurode was a very, very good OC for a number of years for us, but there was a time when he was sitting on the bench as a developing young player. It didn't happen for him overnight.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

You just got caught talking out of your rear end like the rest of us. It happens. LOL

:laugh1:

I knew Gurode played center early on in college, but I also knew that he was a guard during his senior season.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Why is "hating" on a bad player cast in such a negative light on this site?

Costa sucks at the job he is paid to do, why should he be free from criticism?

 

[jnday]

Why is "hating" on a bad player cast in such a negative light on this site?

Costa sucks at the job he is paid to do, why should he be free from criticism?

Because Dallas decided not to upgrade the position, the homers rushed to agree with the team's decision and they started defending him and making excuses for his poor play. If you disagree, you are a negative realist that should not be a fan of this team. I feel like a quick glance back to the Costa threads from last season would tell a different story. Costa was a much hated man by the time the season ended. How soon they forget.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Because Dallas decided not to upgrade the position, the homers rushed to agree with the team's decision and they started defending him and making excuses for his poor play. If you disagree, you are a negative realist that should not be a fan of this team. I feel like a quick glance back to the Costa threads from last season would tell a different story. Costa was a much hated man by the time the season ended. How soon they forget.

You make some good points.

I would be more comforable heading into the season with a more established answer at center. Heck give me a guy who's started 48 games in the NFL and has played to at least an average level.

At this point we don't know if any of the drafted centers are going to be decent performers for their teams. Time will tell.

We do have some facts as they apply to Costa...

- He was hurt the beginning of last season.
- Starting Nagy along side of him wasn't a good thing. The Cowboy's braintrust has admitted that.
- Kyle Kosier was awful last season.
- Costa did play better over the last 10 games of the season.

Does that mean that he's going to be even an average center if named the starter this season? Nope.

But I do not think he plays to the low level of the first 6 games of 2011? Nope.

 

[jnday]

You make some good points.

I would be more comforable heading into the season with a more established answer at center. Heck give me a guy who's started 48 games in the NFL and has played to at least an average level.

At this point we don't know if any of the drafted centers are going to be decent performers for their teams. Time will tell.

We do have some facts as they apply to Costa...

- He was hurt the beginning of last season.
- Starting Nagy along side of him wasn't a good thing. The Cowboy's braintrust has admitted that.
- Kyle Kosier was awful last season.
- Costa did play better over the last 10 games of the season.

Does that mean that he's going to be even an average center if named the starter this season? Nope.

But I do not think he plays to the low level of the first 6 games of 2011? Nope.

After Jerry came out and said that last year's line was a mistake, the position was still ignored. Center rated right with CB as a position that needed upgrades. Let's face it, Costa is the Alan Ball of the oline. Risen has a good point that he makes. I would feel better with Jenkins and Carr at CB than I feel about Costa and any jag on the line. Jenkin and Carr is a good pair of corners. Costa and anybody still stinks.

 

[Idgit]

Why is "hating" on a bad player cast in such a negative light on this site?

Costa sucks at the job he is paid to do, why should he be free from criticism?

You're confusing 'hating' with 'criticism.' Hating on Cowboys players to some--myself included--is very rarely ever warranted (hey there, Pacman Jones and Rafael Septien). Criticism is always ok.

But saying somebody sucks and can't get better isn't only hating. It's hating, and it's also obviously not true. Is it too much to ask that the criticism at least be good criticism?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

After Jerry came out and said that last year's line was a mistake, the position was still ignored. Center rated right with CB as a position that needed upgrades. Let's face it, Costa is the Alan Ball of the oline. Risen has a good point that he makes. I would feel better with Jenkins and Carr at CB than I feel about Costa and any jag on the line. Jenkin and Carr is a good pair of corners. Costa and anybody still stinks.

I would have to dig up Jerry's quote but I think he was referring to the interior of the line... And I think it had to do more with Nagy than with Costa.

I don't think Garrett's an idiot. I think that if he believed Costa was that bad last year and was the favored candidate to be the starting center this year, then an alternate choice would have been drafted or signed through free agency. I simply think his view of Garrett is a notch or two higher.

 

[Idgit]

After Jerry came out and said that last year's line was a mistake, the position was still ignored. Center rated right with CB as a position that needed upgrades. Let's face it, Costa is the Alan Ball of the oline. Risen has a good point that he makes. I would feel better with Jenkins and Carr at CB than I feel about Costa and any jag on the line. Jenkin and Carr is a good pair of corners. Costa and anybody still stinks.

We didn't ignore OG. People can't keep saying we did just because they don't like the players and instead wanted us to sell the farm for a premium OG. Our own recent history has up picking up value OL in FA (Kosier, Colombo) and having it work just fine for several years. There's zero reason to think we blew it with Livings and Mack.

Now, at OC, I agree with you. OC wasn't as bad off as CB, and it's not as important, but it was definitely our weakest position on offense. It's puzzling that we just stayed put. They really must have thought the problem was with the Guards. But I'm dubious.

 

[Boys122]

No... That's not true.

Gurode definitely was not drafted as a center.

Him playing center was an afterthought because he had not played well at guard.

Read this entire article, Mike, it's in there where they say he was drafted as a center then Bill moved him to guard.

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sports/...s-andre-gurode-a-solid-player-at-key-spot.ece

 

[Boys122]

I will say this though about Costa, he played well in his rookie season, that's why Gurode was pretty much shown the door, but what I don't understand about Costa now is why he regressed a year later.

Why did play so poorly after his rookie season? He sailed snaps over Tony's head and was beat quite often last year. I think he played well against Solai but overall his play last year was poor. I think that's why I have no faith in Costa.

I mean Gurode struggled in his rookie season then improved which is normal. Costa had a good rookie season then regressed. You're suppose improve at the position not
go the other way.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Read this entire article, Mike, it's in there where they say he was drafted as a center then Bill moved him to guard.

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sports/...s-andre-gurode-a-solid-player-at-key-spot.ece

Nah, I don't have to read it. Someone else said the same (Gurode being drafted as a center) about the Gurode choice. That's good enough for me.

 

[Boys122]

Nah, I don't have to read it. Someone else said the same (Gurode being drafted as a center) about the Gurode choice. That's good enough for me.

Very well then.

 

[Hoofbite]

I will say this though about Costa, he played well in his rookie season, that's why Gurode was pretty much shown the door, but what I don't understand about Costa now is why he regressed a year later.

Why did play so poorly after his rookie season? He sailed snaps over Tony's head and was beat quite often last year. I think he played well against Solai but overall his play last year was poor. I think that's why I have no faith in Costa.

I mean Gurode struggled in his rookie season then improved which is normal. Costa had a good rookie season then regressed. You're suppose improve at the position not
go the other way.

Played well? He barely played at all.

Gurode was kicked out because his contract was high and Dallas felt the need to purge older guys who aren't in the picture anymore.

 

[Boys122]

Played well? He barely played at all.

Gurode was kicked out because his contract was high and Dallas felt the need to purge older guys who aren't in the picture anymore.

Okay, I stand corrected, he played well in the 5 games he played in Gurode's absence his rookie season.

And yeah, you're right he was cut for salary and age reasons. They thought Costa was his sucessor. Man how wrong were they.