Wool Skin Goggles - Revised

jday

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Reading through the new threads today and responses to my contributions yesterday, I'm noticing alot of bloggers post comments that would suggest they are a member of the team or the staff; because there are statements being introduced as fact, despite these same statements being originally introduced as speculatory dribble by the media. Now, I realize there are issues within the organization. But, IMHO, I think the biggest issue is the amount of information that's actually being fed to the media. If the media didn't have a spin machine geared towards selling papers and not so much just representing the news as is, perhaps I wouldn't take issue with it.

Of course, in the wake of a losing season, particularly one that started with such high hopes and ended on such an embarrasing note, there will be frustrations vented, there will be players who think they know what went wrong, and, of course, every member of the media and every fan is an expert on how to fix the team. Fire Wade! Fire Jerry Jones! Fire Brian Stewart! Fire Jason Garrett! Cut Owens! Cut Romo! Trade Marion and both of the Roy's. Cut this coach, this player, acquire this free agent, trade for this 1st round draft pick, do this, do that, and the Cowboys will be returned to Super Bowl form. I've added my two-cents, I'm not knocking it. It's a great way to kill time until the season starts again.

My issue is with those who contribute to this site as if they know how things are in the locker room, on the field, on the sideline, and make such claims like: "Until T.O. is gone, this team will never win," "Until Romo steps up and is a leader...," "Until Wade grows a pair....," "Until Jerry fires Jerry as G.M....," etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum. The truth is, winning will never be contigent on the contribution or lack thereof, of just one person or player. With or without the aforemented players and member of this orgination, this team can win the Super Bowl. People can change. And said change can be accepted by their peers. I've seen it happen. I know it can happen.

T.O. can shut up. And, furthermore, provided the team is winning, I think he can be happy with a limited role. Take Santonio Holmes of the Steelers for instance. In the wake of their Super Bowl win, Santonio was praised for his petitioning for the ball to win the game, quoted as saying, "I want to win this game for the team!" The fact that he said this, didn't suprise me. The fact that no one criticized with the same vigor they would criticize T.O. did; though it probably shouldn't have, especially considering his infamous celebration using the ball as prop that he wasn't called out on either. Good receivers want the ball, they want the opportunity to win the game; even Michael Irvin has said that. But when T.O. says that, people are outraged. And I think it's more because of who is saying it, and the history that comes with him, than what is actually being said. I'll admit it; some of the things T.O. says is stupid and should never be brought to the public's attention, but as a general rule, I don't think he's just talking trash to make himself look better. What he says is typically the truth.

Romo does have alot to learn. But he belongs on this team. He was made for this team. And I refuse to forget all the QB's this team has had since Aikman. My only hope for Romo is that he keeps on being Romo, and doesn't try to emulate any other QB's. I want him to enjoy the game again. Romo has orchestrated quite a few comebacks in his time, so to describe him as a choke artist is just not fair. While he may share a little of the blame, ultimately, the team failed. Rest assured, he did all he could to change those unfortunate conclusion. And all you can really ask of a player is that they leave everything they have on the field to win the game. I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Romo does give his best to win and absolutely hates losing. Sure, he might throw out the occasional psycho-babble in an effort to make himself feel better about losing, but knowing the type of competitor he is, losing is not easy for him. Just take a glance at the big picture: Accomplished Golfer, decent basketball player, Jessica, Undrafted Free Agent to Football Star...success is a big part of his mantra. He's a consistent student of getting better at what ever he deems worthy of his efforts and I believe football is at the top of his list. So, honestly, Romo is the least of my worries.

Jerry Jones does concerns me. But I don't think he's stupid. He know's how to be successful in life. And I truly believe he wants to win. So I temper my fears by consistently reminding myself that success is typically gained by those willing to mold themselves to the right formula, fueled by the right motivation. He might not quite get the formula, but he knows how to be successful and he has the motivation. The optimist in me has to believe he'll eventually get it.

Wade. I admit it. His public persona sucks! But the truth is, not every successful coach was a hard ***. Many coaches treat their players like adults who can police themselves. It's not like his approach is revolutionary. If he was winning, no one would criticize. But since it doesn't fit the mold of the Tuna or Jimmy Johnson, we as fans immediately assume that this team can't win without being treated like dirt. I disagree. I do, however, believe that certain policies should be put in place to police those who cannot act like adults backed by fines that encourages players to ammend their child like ways preventing further infractions.

Most of this I've said before, but I'm bored so I don't really mind throwing it out there again. For those of you who are guilty of throwing out these ridiculous claims, more power to you; if that's the way you feel, who I'm I to criticize. But if you introduce these types of claims as facts to argue your side of a debate, I'm not going to introduce a counterpoint on the topic; I'm going to attack your method of argument as speculatory, which I think is just annoying for most people, since despite the use of fallacies they very well may be making a good point.
 

BehindEnemyLinez

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Ban this guy! He's being logical in the Zone...isn't that against the rules?!
:laugh2:

BTW, great post , jday... ;)
 

jackrussell

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In the wake of their Super Bowl win, Santonio was praised for his petitioning for the ball to win the game, quoted as saying, "I want to win this game for the team!" The fact that he said this, didn't suprise me. The fact that no one criticized with the same vigor they would criticize T.O. did; though it probably shouldn't have, especially considering his infamous celebration using the ball as prop that he wasn't called out on either. Good receivers want the ball, they want the opportunity to win the game; even Michael Irvin has said that. But when T.O. says that, people are outraged. And I think it's more because of who is saying it, and the history that comes with him, than what is actually being said.

Or maybe, just maybe...the fact he would make such a claim after being thrown to 17 times in a game comes off as a little self serving?

Or maybe with Holmes there has been no real history of on the field issues, or throwing the QB under the bus?

It's really a terrible comparison.
 

jday

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If no one else is allowed to have an opinion, why should I value yours?

Was this comment in response to the thread or a poster?

Or maybe, just maybe...the fact he would make such a claim after being thrown to 17 times in a game comes off as a little self serving?

I'll admit. Seemed ridiculous that he would anything considering the circumstances. But have you never said anything out of frustration that was in hindsight pretty ridiculous?

Or maybe with Holmes there has been no real history of on the field issues, or throwing the QB under the bus?

It's really a terrible comparison.

Not really. I'm not saying we should criticize Santonio. I'm saying Santonio, Plaxico, T.O., etc. are all considered #1 caliber receivers. And oddly enough they all seem to have the same "give me the ball" mantra. But, for whatever reason, T.O.'s request for the ball are put in the most selfish light possible due to his past. I just think it's a bit of a contradiction.
 

Verdict

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The thing that wears me out the most on this forum is all of the "extreme" points of view. I abolutely hate coming on this website after a loss, because of all the supreme negativity. After a win, it isn't as annoying, but its almost as extreme the other way.
 

Woods

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Very nice post.

But with regards to Wade, I agree that not every coach has to be a disciplinarian.

I think the problem with Wade specifically is that he's been coaching for about 3 decades, and he's got his own style - as you'd expect. But he's been unable to win playoff games previously. So, most fans are a bit skeptical that (1) at this stage in his career he can change sufficiently enough to undertake the monumental task at hand, and (2) he's a "winner" as a HC (i.e., post-season).

That said, I believe our team is talented. And maybe without the injuries we're a playoff team, and we win a game or two in the playoffs (hopefully more).

But I think it's going to be extremely tough on Wade this season. With every loss (or blowout loss, if it happens) people are going to be calling for his head - MORE than usual, as his coaching lives are nearly used up.

Wade's going to need a REALLY thick skin this season. We all know guys like Shanahan, Holmgren, Cowher, etc. are out there.

If Wade can get us into the playoffs and win in the playoffs this coming season, hats off to him. It will be one heck of a coaching job - not because we don't have the talent, but because we do have the talent, and this could be the last last year/chance as a HC, and there are other excellent candidates available in 2010. Some big-time pressure. Even more pressure on a personal basis, I'd say, than last year for Wade.
 

jday

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Verdict;2645432 said:
The thing that wears me out the most on this forum is all of the "extreme" points of view. I abolutely hate coming on this website after a loss, because of all the supreme negativity. After a win, it isn't as annoying, but its almost as extreme the other way.
Thanks!
 

adbutcher

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BehindEnemyLinez;2645031 said:
Ban this guy! He's being logical in the Zone...isn't that against the rules?!
:laugh2:

BTW, great post , jday... ;)

No against the rules, but he is slowly becoming one of my favorite posters.
 

28 Joker

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Thinking Terrell Owens will accept a smaller role on the team is a big gamble on your part, imo. Owens loves the spotlight. Does he have a reality show? Didn't Owens not say that "if I get my numbers, winning will come" or championships. Is he going to just magically change his attitude and accept 3-5 targets per game. "We are not in the locker room", but "we" know his past history. Todd Haley told Jerry Jones that "he wouldn't win anything with Owens on the team". If last year is a benchmark year, he will prove to be right if Owens stays and gets # 1 WR treatment.

Referencing Todd Haley isn't "thinking I'm in the locker room". By the way, Todd Haley was Owens' WR coach. Owens didn't like him, either. He made Haley out to be a "rat". Jason Witten got the "rat" treatment this year. You seem to want bloggers to ignore Owens' past and present, and then, you seem to want to give Terrell Owens a pass and excuse his behavior. Why is what you say any better than a blogger on this site? You stated several opinions in your post.

Also, you say that "provided the team is winning, I think he can be happy with a limited role". First, you give him a reason or excuse to misbehave. When times are tough, Owens gets even more toxic. He sinks ships. He doesn't save them, or at least, he didn't at S.F. and Philly. He shouldn't be acting like an idiot even if the team is losing. Jason Witten doesn't throw fits and blame other people for his mistakes in the media or on the sidellines. Owens had a "limited' role at the Washington game, and Dallas won a big game. What did he do after a big win? He ran to Deion Sanders and threw the offensive coordinator under the bus and blamed him for his declining output. Owens took shots at Tony Romo at press conferences. Second, of course WRs want the ball. They just don't act like Terrell Owens when they don't get it. I don't see Larry Fitzgerald, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Brandon Marshall, Reggie Wayne, the Packers best WR, ect.. acting like Terrell Owens. What other team would have him? Raiders

Comparing Santonio Holmes to Terrell Owens isn't a good comparision, imo, and I do preface many comments by stating it's my opinion. It's a message board. Posters read the information from people like Matt Mosley or players or coaches or others and form opinions and state them. Mosley has plenty of Valley Ranch sources. Valley Ranch leaks more oil than a 30 year old car.

By telling bloggers they "are not in the locker room", you are saying "we" don't know anything. However, you are trying to tell us Owens can "change" when his past history tells "us" that he's headed for situps in the driveway, again. Where is your proof he can change? That is your opinion. He has been booted off two teams, and you left that part out. He has had offensive coordinator issues with two teams. He called Jeff Garcia "gay". He split the Eagles locker room and turned most of the team against McNabb. Now, we are supposed to ignore all the smoke at Valley Rach and believe Owens isn't an issue in that locker room. Please.

When multiple reports keep coming out about Owens' toxic behavior in the locker room and his affect in the locker room and rifts with Witten and Romo, are we supposed to bow to the almighty Terrell and look the other way?

I guess "just because Terrell says it", it's true. Therefore, he has a right to act like a selfish, diva. You are taking Owens' side of things and painting it as "fact". Yet, you accuse other "bloggers" of doing exactly what you are doing. It's weak, imo.

I'm sorry. I'm not buying it.

Last, if you don't have a strong leader leading your team on and off the field, your team is hurting. That shouldn't be up for debate.
 

jackrussell

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Not really. I'm not saying we should criticize Santonio. I'm saying Santonio, Plaxico, T.O., etc. are all considered #1 caliber receivers. And oddly enough they all seem to have the same "give me the ball" mantra. But, for whatever reason, T.O.'s request for the ball are put in the most selfish light possible due to his past. I just think it's a bit of a contradiction.

Can't speak as a Giant's or Steeler's fan, and don't really know what Sonny and Plax's demands were. So I don't really recall a situation where I would comment on their individual grievences.

I'm pretty consistant in criticizing any 'me' player in the league though, Kellen Winslow would be a good example, Chad Johnson would be another.

I would think a real contridiction would be if another Cowboy's player ran with the "give me the ball" mantra as you say. If I didn't hammer a bit on them and did TO, then yes, that would obviously be a contridiction.

The closest we've had to that situation would be with Julius Jones to some degree, and I, with several others here, let it be known we thought he should just run with the damn ball when given the chance. Let his actions speak for him instead of his mouth.

If I were to give any leniency at all to Irvin, it would have been because he at least made it feel like if you did hitch your wagon to him, he'd take you to a higher level...and that's because his past performances would deem that a possibility. So while Irvin's past would seem helpful in his present day actions, TO's doesn't. He just comes off as someone who just wants to win if he is THE reason they win.
 

jday

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Thinking Terrell Owens will accept a smaller role on the team is a big gamble on your part, imo. Owens loves the spotlight. Does he have a reality show? Didn't Owens not say that "if I get my numbers, winning will come" or championships. Is he going to just magically change his attitude and accept 3-5 targets per game. "We are not in the locker room", but "we" know his past history. Todd Haley told Jerry Jones that "he wouldn't win anything with Owens on the team". If last year is a benchmark year, he will prove to be right if Owens stays and gets # 1 WR treatment.

Referencing Todd Haley isn't "thinking I'm in the locker room". By the way, Todd Haley was Owens' WR coach. Owens didn't like him, either. He made Haley out to be a "rat". Jason Witten got the "rat" treatment this year. You seem to want bloggers to ignore Owens' past and present, and then, you seem to want to give Terrell Owens a pass and excuse his behavior. Why is what you say any better than a blogger on this site? You stated several opinions in your post.

T.O. would accept a diminished role provided that the Cowboy's win. It is when the Cowboy's lose that he takes issue with not being more involved. T.O. is an extremely passionate player; and he can be passionate to a fault. While I don't want to turn this into a human nature thesis, often times an individuals personal attributes in terms of character can become their greatest flaw.

Furthermore, I think the above is being misconstrued, if you believe I am trying to make T.O. out to be a saint. I agree he needs to shut up. I agree he needs to know his role and understand his position within the media. I am merely sighting that he can do that. And since we are stuck with him, considering that it would cost our cap more to cut him at this point, I'm trying to look on the brightside of an otherwise volatile situation.

Believe it or not, I was absolutely 100% against signing him from the very beginning. And I have been afraid that something like this would happen. But to be honest, I think the media has made him more of a problem than he really is.

Comparing Santonio Holmes to Terrell Owens isn't a good comparision, imo, and I do preface many comments by stating it's my opinion. It's a message board. Posters read the information from people like Matt Mosley or players or coaches or others and form opinions and state them. Mosley has plenty of Valley Ranch sources. Valley Ranch leaks more oil than a 30 year old car.

Okay, again, I'm not trying to say they are the same person. I'm only pointing out how biased media perception can be. The truth of the matter is, T.O. can't become a better person, because no matter what he says or does, the media and fans will not let him. Anything he says is going to be smeared into something negative, even if it's a statement in reference to his relationship with God. Now, again, I'm not trying to make him saint. But I do think his past is what's writing the story right now, not his present actions. Remove his past, and the media wouldn't have anything to write about.

By telling bloggers they "are not in the locker room", you are saying "we" don't know anything. However, you are trying to tell us Owens can "change" when his past history tells "us" that he's headed for situps in the driveway, again. Where is your proof he can change? That is your opinion. He has been booted off two teams, and you left that part out. He has had offensive coordinator issues with two teams. He called Jeff Garcia "gay". He split the Eagles locker room and turned most of the team against McNabb. Now, we are supposed to ignore all the smoke at Valley Rach and believe Owens isn't an issue in that locker room. Please.

When multiple reports keep coming out about Owens' toxic behavior in the locker room and his affect in the locker room and rifts with Witten and Romo, are we supposed to bow to the almighty Terrell and look the other way?

Please provide a link to these multiple reports linking Owens to toxic behavior in the locker room and rifts with Witten and Romo. Did he break fellow players nose, like your beloved Steve Smith? Did he shoot himself in the leg like Plaxico? Did he get caught in an apartment with a couple of hookers and a whole mess of coke like our own glorified Michael Irvin?

Even in the early 90's, before the age of the blogger, this Cowboy's team had egoticstical players. There were plenty of fights in the locker room. There were plenty of players who were considered locker room cancer that the Cowboy's brought on board and were successful with. My point is, regardless of who T.O. has been or is now, doesn't mean this team can't be successful with him on the roster. .

I guess "just because Terrell says it", it's true. Therefore, he has a right to act like a selfish, diva. You are taking Owens' side of things and painting it as "fact". Yet, you accuse other "bloggers" of doing exactly what you are doing. It's weak, imo.

I'm sorry. I'm not buying it.

Angry much? I don't see how I'm defending T.O. I am sighting that he can change. Saying a person can change if anything is an indictment that change is needed. Forgive me, but I don't see how that could be interpreted as defending him. That's weak reading comprehension, IMO.

Last, if you don't have a strong leader leading your team on and off the field, your team is hurting. That shouldn't be up for debate.

I'm not sure which point I made that this is refuting. Please elaborate.
 

jday

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Can't speak as a Giant's or Steeler's fan, and don't really know what Sonny and Plax's demands were. So I don't really recall a situation where I would comment on their individual grievences.

I'm pretty consistant in criticizing any 'me' player in the league though, Kellen Winslow would be a good example, Chad Johnson would be another.

I would think a real contridiction would be if another Cowboy's player ran with the "give me the ball" mantra as you say. If I didn't hammer a bit on them and did TO, then yes, that would obviously be a contridiction.

The closest we've had to that situation would be with Julius Jones to some degree, and I, with several others here, let it be known we thought he should just run with the damn ball when given the chance. Let his actions speak for him instead of his mouth.

If I were to give any leniency at all to Irvin, it would have been because he at least made it feel like if you did hitch your wagon to him, he'd take you to a higher level...and that's because his past performances would deem that a possibility. So while Irvin's past would seem helpful in his present day actions, TO's doesn't. He just comes off as someone who just wants to win if he is THE reason they win.

Let me be clear: If every player could be a combination between Witten, Marion Barber, Tashard Choice, and Felix Jones, in terms of character, leadership ability and attitude, I would love it. I like those types of players. But our bed is already made with a wide variety of players and there is nothing the media or us fans can do about it.

My approach, in many ways, is the Serenity Prayer in application:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.


If anything, I am trying to effect change in the perception of my fellow bloggers. I'm not making rules here. You can say whatever you want on this forum. That's the beauty of it.

Also, I'm really bored. As I have said in previous threads and posts, I have a job that barely takes half my day to finish, despite a 40 hour requirement. I work in a cubicle jungle and were it not for these types of websites that allow me to escape the mundane, monotonous, tedious, soul-sucking reality of my job and the free gourmet coffee, I would probably have already quit. So enjoy me while I last.
 

Venger

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When something negative happens, human beings tend to rationalize. They also tend to simplify. Simplistic rationalization = about half the posts you see on almost any subject.

That said, I don't find much wrong with all instances of someone concluding that until X happens, then Y. If X = Jerrah, and Y = success and consistency, that's an arguable case, and it certainly isn't simple.

That so many come to errant conclusions shouldn't mean we stop making them.
 

jday

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Venger;2646468 said:
When something negative happens, human beings tend to rationalize. They also tend to simplify. Simplistic rationalization = about half the posts you see on almost any subject.

That said, I don't find much wrong with all instances of someone concluding that until X happens, then Y. If X = Jerrah, and Y = success and consistency, that's an arguable case, and it certainly isn't simple.

That so many come to errant conclusions shouldn't mean we stop making them.
Without this universal concept, I would have absolutely nothing to do...that is a scarier thought, for me, then Jerry Jones appointing himself as Head Coach!
 

Chocolate Lab

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jday;2646150 said:
T.O. would accept a diminished role provided that the Cowboy's win. It is when the Cowboy's lose that he takes issue with not being more involved.
OK, in an attempt to help you through your boring day... Why does this myth keep being repeated? I've seen it a thousand times. Yet nobody explains why he went on NFLN with Deion to ***** about the QB and the OC only a couple of days after the biggest win of the season at Washington.
 
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