Would NE trade both of their first round picks for #9?

[Chuck 54]

At #9 my eyes are on JJ Watt, who sounds like the perfect fit at 3-4 DE...the type of 3-4 DE who might actually bring a significant rush on the QB.

However, I would love to get both of NE's first round picks for that #9. I just don't see Peterson, Dareus, Fairley, or Miller dropping to #9. The rest of the guys don't really excite me at that pick for the Cowboys.

We can get a starter at DE and a starter or future starter at OT with two lower first round picks, and we'd still have our second rounder coming up soon.

I know...the value has to be there for the trade, and NE has to have someone they really want at #9...but this would be a scenario I could get excited about.

 

[fortdick]

At #9 my eyes are on JJ Watt, who sounds like the perfect fit at 3-4 DE...the type of 3-4 DE who might actually bring a significant rush on the QB.

However, I would love to get both of NE's first round picks for that #9. I just don't see Peterson, Dareus, Fairley, or Miller dropping to #9. The rest of the guys don't really excite me at that pick for the Cowboys.

We can get a starter at DE and a starter or future starter at OT with two lower first round picks, and we'd still have our second rounder coming up soon.

I know...the value has to be there for the trade, and NE has to have someone they really want at #9...but this would be a scenario I could get excited about.

No, they wouldn't.

 

[dargonking999]

I don't understand all this talk about a DE at #9.

I'm sorry, but in a 3-4 there isn't a DE that's going to enough to warrent a #9 selection. Top ten is all about impact players. Impact players at impact positions. DT, LB, CB, S, WR, OT, C, QB, RB.

FB, G, DE, they don't belong in the top ten. Ever. Ask Houston how Mario Williams is working out for them, and that was a 4-3 DE.

 

[Hoofbite]

No, they wouldn't.

Yeah, they're in the business of rolling one over. Part of me thinks they want to have that extra 1st rounder on a yearly basis just so they can make any move they want.

Imagine them trading up to #1 next year to secure the heir to Brady.

They're a well run team.

 

[Hostile]

I don't understand all this talk about a DE at #9.

I'm sorry, but in a 3-4 there isn't a DE that's going to enough to warrent a #9 selection. Top ten is all about impact players. Impact players at impact positions. DT, LB, CB, S, WR, OT, C, QB, RB.

FB, G, DE, they don't belong in the top ten. Ever. Ask Houston how Mario Williams is working out for them, and that was a 4-3 DE.

That is absolutely crazy as it pertains to DE. Bruce Smith ring any bells? Mario Williams is definitely working out. far better than Reggie Bush who was everyone's #1 that year.

I do not want a DE at #9 either, but that is because we need OL and DB far worse.

 

[Chuck 54]

I don't understand all this talk about a DE at #9.

I'm sorry, but in a 3-4 there isn't a DE that's going to enough to warrent a #9 selection. Top ten is all about impact players. Impact players at impact positions. DT, LB, CB, S, WR, OT, C, QB, RB.

FB, G, DE, they don't belong in the top ten. Ever. Ask Houston how Mario Williams is working out for them, and that was a 4-3 DE.

I respect your opinion, but to call DT, S, OT, C, or even RB impact positions and say DE isn't makes no sense to me. Maybe you are talking team needs because the history of the draft shows much greater impact at DE than at S or C.

There are only two impact DT's, and both will be gone before #9.
There are no impact Safeties; no impact C, and no OT or RB rated in the top 10...so why do you have a problem with a DE who fits perfectly when none of the other positions rank there. The CB Amukamara is the only position you name that's even close to a top 10 player.

You have to take the guys of value at #9 or trade down, imo.

 

[dargonking999]

That is absolutely crazy as it pertains to DE. Bruce Smith ring any bells? Mario Williams is definitely working out. far better than Reggie Bush who was everyone's #1 that year.

I do not want a DE at #9 either, but that is because we need OL and DB far worse.

I never believed in Bush. And yes there are some great players at DE, some there were picked in the top ten, but that doesn't mean that they belong in the top ten. Top ten should be reserved for players that are critical for team success. How many rings does Mr. Smith have? Great career, great player, great person, but at the end of the day i look at positions that can affect the team the most. As great as you say Mario Williams has been for the Texans, how has that worked out for the Defense? Even before his injury they were the worst pass defense in the NFL. I want someone in the top ten that can change games for me on a weekly basis. Whether it's shutting down the the best WR, Locking up my star QB's backside, or breaking away down field for the go ahead TD. I want game-changers. DE and especially 3-4 DE are not game-changers. Not a top-ten pick. For every 1 bruce Smith you find in the top ten, I can find probably 3-4 Hatchers and bowens in the later rounds and get me Irvin or an Aikman and win a few superbowls.

 

[dargonking999]

I respect your opinion, but to call DT, S, OT, C, or even RB impact positions and say DE isn't makes no sense to me. Maybe you are talking team needs because the history of the draft shows much greater impact at DE than at S or C.

There are only two impact DT's, and both will be gone before #9.
There are no impact Safeties; no impact C, and no OT or RB rated in the top 10...so why do you have a problem with a DE who fits perfectly when none of the other positions rank there. The CB Amukamara is the only position you name that's even close to a top 10 player.

You have to take the guys of value at #9 or trade down, imo.

Because a 3-4 DE is not an impact position. Name me 5 DE's in a 3-4 that have had consistently great seasons (3-5), and were the cogs behind the teams post-season success. Impact players belong in the top ten. If there isn't an impact player then you trade out and let some one else who wants to waste there pick trade for it.

 

[RS12]

I never believed in Bush. And yes there are some great players at DE, some there were picked in the top ten, but that doesn't mean that they belong in the top ten. Top ten should be reserved for players that are critical for team success. How many rings does Mr. Smith have? Great career, great player, great person, but at the end of the day i look at positions that can affect the team the most. As great as you say Mario Williams has been for the Texans, how has that worked out for the Defense? Even before his injury they were the worst pass defense in the NFL. I want someone in the top ten that can change games for me on a weekly basis. Whether it's shutting down the the best WR, Locking up my star QB's backside, or breaking away down field for the go ahead TD. I want game-changers. DE and especially 3-4 DE are not game-changers. Not a top-ten pick. For every 1 bruce Smith you find in the top ten, I can find probably 3-4 Hatchers and bowens in the later rounds and get me Irvin or an Aikman and win a few superbowls.

Ridiculous argument. Loads of guys in HOF without rings, all great players. To win a ring you depend on 21 other guys plus STers. If a DE is BPA available at 9 and would make biggest impact, you take them. This team has to go BPA, not talented enough to do other wise.

 

[Doomsday101]

"You have to take the guys of value at #9 or trade down"


This is key, we can't start reaching for players because we have a need today. Draft is for the long haul. I would love it if NE were to give up 2 1st to get our pick (barring 1 of the top 5 players falling)

 

[bracey]

"You have to take the guys of value at #9 or trade down"


This is key, we can't start reaching for players because we have a need today. Draft is for the long haul. I would love it if NE were to give up 2 1st to get our pick (barring 1 of the top 5 players falling)

It all comes down the results. I don't care if we reach for a player at 9 if he's really good enough to be taken in that spot. I remember last year everyone was laughing at the Jags for picking Tyson Alualu #10. He ended up being a solid DT that made the all-rookie team.

I would agree that if there's a superior player available at a position lower on our priority list compared to an average player available at more needed positions we should go with the superior player. Much like we did with Dez last year.

 

[YosemiteSam]

If only this years picks where traded between New England and Dallas for Dallas to get both first round picks, what is the math?

Looking at the charts, it looks like it would take the following

Pats give up (1st)17th, (1st)28th, and (2nd)60th picks: 1,910 value.

Cowboys give up: (1st)9th, (2nd)40th, (5th)140th, (6th)171st picks: 1,909

Edit:

So basically, the Cowboys would trade down in the first to upgrade their 2nd round pick for another 1st round pick and trade the 5th and 6th round picks for a 2nd round pick. Hmm, I would do it! :laugh2:

Three first day picks and get to keep your 3rd and 4th round picks.

 

[Hostile]

I never believed in Bush. And yes there are some great players at DE, some there were picked in the top ten, but that doesn't mean that they belong in the top ten. Top ten should be reserved for players that are critical for team success. How many rings does Mr. Smith have? Great career, great player, great person, but at the end of the day i look at positions that can affect the team the most. As great as you say Mario Williams has been for the Texans, how has that worked out for the Defense? Even before his injury they were the worst pass defense in the NFL. I want someone in the top ten that can change games for me on a weekly basis. Whether it's shutting down the the best WR, Locking up my star QB's backside, or breaking away down field for the go ahead TD. I want game-changers. DE and especially 3-4 DE are not game-changers. Not a top-ten pick. For every 1 bruce Smith you find in the top ten, I can find probably 3-4 Hatchers and bowens in the later rounds and get me Irvin or an Aikman and win a few superbowls.

DE is not critical for team success?

Oy...

 

[theogt]

T. Brady for M. Bennett.

Get 'er done.

 

[Phrozen Phil]

Getting back to the OP, I don't see NE trading up. They are more likely to trade one of their second rounders for a 1st next year. That's just their style. I can't see anybody at #9 this year that they would lust for. NE likes those late 1st rounders, as they are easier to sign.

BTW, predicting this draft will be a major challenge and all bets are off on where the Cowboys will go. I just hope they don't get too cute or reach for "potential". My bet is is on Smith from USC, but there's no money invovled in that bet.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

DE is not critical for team success?

Oy...

Most moronic thing I've read on this forum in a long time.

 

[Doomsday101]

It all comes down the results. I don't care if we reach for a player at 9 if he's really good enough to be taken in that spot. I remember last year everyone was laughing at the Jags for picking Tyson Alualu #10. He ended up being a solid DT that made the all-rookie team.

I would agree that if there's a superior player available at a position lower on our priority list compared to an average player available at more needed positions we should go with the superior player. Much like we did with Dez last year.

There are exceptions to all rules but by and large teams who reach for need end up getting burned. I do think BPA that fills need is important but reaching for players all to often ends in failure

 

[The Quest for Six]

NE never over pays for talent, they always move down and select players of value that fit their system.

Jerry on the other hand, ALAWAYS over pays on value and talent

 

[CCBoy]

There is some strong upward mobility by four quarterbacks going on right now. There may be some real push up to where Dallas sits presently, as well as a possible opportunity to move up as with Dez Bryant, and snag a player as well. That or real values sitting much lower for Dallas to add picks up and grab.

 

[CCBoy]

Most moronic thing I've read on this forum in a long time.

If I could plug either Dareus or Fairley into next to DeMarcus Ware, I would bet my farm, your farm, and Jerry's on that here and now.