Would NE trade both of their first round picks for #9?

[speedkilz88]

I agree, minus Bowers. I just don't think he fits our defense. I'm right with you on the other two though. Get one of those guys or go in another direction at 9.

He's big enough to be a 3-4 end and has the ability to be more than just a solid player at the position. He can also move inside if they go 4 man in nickel situations.

 

[AsthmaField]

He's big enough to be a 3-4 end and has the ability to be more than just a solid player at the position.

I don't know about that man. Maybe so, but most 34 ends are bigger than him. I do agree that he has more ability than your typical 34 DE.

If Ryan wants him and we draft him, then I'll assume he agrees with you and I will be on board. He knows who he needs for his defense.

He can also move inside if they go 4 man in nickel situations.

He would be awesome for that when Ryan goes to a 43 or 46 look.

 

[speedkilz88]

He's already 280 with the frame to get bigger. Bowers, Dareus, and Fairly are just the only elite/blue chips on the DL.

 

[Dodger]

I think there are three DL that are worth taking in the top ten even in a 3-4. Dareus, Bowers, and Fairley. If those guys are gone then they should trade down before taking the next DL imo.

Personally, I would love to get a NT in this draft. I know moving Ratliff to DE isn't the most popular idea on this board, but in all honesty, I think he would be a monster at that position, better than he is at the nose, plus this would help the Cowboys with the issue of having three DE free agents, one of which we wouldn't have to re-sign.

Dareus won't be there at number 9. Fairley might, but I'm kinda lukewarm on him at number 9. There are a couple others who could be possibilities with our second round pick such as Taylor or Paea.

Just a thought...

 

[TellerMorrow34]

There isn't a chance in Hell that NE would give us both their first rounders to be at #9. No chance. Zero.

 

[Arch Stanton]

The one player Bill would trade up for in the first round of this draft is A J Green.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Not in a 34 defense, you can't.​

They average more money because in the past, almost every team used a 4-3 alignment, and in a 43, the DE's are the impact players. Ware and Spencer would be our DE's in a 43. In the 1990's I think Pittsburgh was the only 34 team in the league for a while, and all those 4-3 teams needed an impact DE like Charles Haley, Dexter Manley, etc. All teams were looking for those guys, and they spent plenty of money on them when they found them.

That also explains why so many have been picked in the top 10. You have a dominant edge rusher and a league full of 43 teams... then you are going to have teams drafting that edge rusher 1) early and 2) for DE.

Having said all of that, I think Fairley is dominant enough to use a top 10 pick on. Plus, Ryan is going to be diverse enough in what he asks the defense to do that I think he could put Fairley to very good use.

With Phillips still running the defense, I wouldn't want Fairley to waste away on our team.

Again, he included 4-3 DEs in his argument. I think there is a valid argument against taking a 3-4 DE in the top 10. I don't agree with it, but it's valid. He argued against taking a DE in a 4-3 or 3-4 in the top 10, saying they aren't needed to or capable of making an impacy worthy of the pick.

 

[the kid 05]

T. Brady for M. Bennett.

Get 'er done.

you have to throw in coakley other wise they aren't interested

 

[AsthmaField]

Again, he included 4-3 DEs in his argument. I think there is a valid argument against taking a 3-4 DE in the top 10. I don't agree with it, but it's valid. He argued against taking a DE in a 4-3 or 3-4 in the top 10, saying they aren't needed to or capable of making an impacy worthy of the pick.

Gotcha. I would take Fairley because I think he'll be dominant and we have Ryan who would use him accordingly... but mostly you can find 34 DE's outside round 1.

So, I think we are in agreement here.

 

[playmakers]

It might be just me but I think Watt's lack of athleticism and speed will catch up to him in the nfl. Heart can only take you so far. That's why guys like Kyle Vandenbosche(sp) are few and far in the league. Risky pick.

This might be the only year NE makes a trade like that with the lockout and a guy like Green out there. It won't be to us unless Green drops. The Jaguars at 16 might be the target of a trade down. They are looking for a QB. It will be something like the 9th for the 16 and 48th(guessing there 2nd rd pick.) If Quinn, Fairley, Dareus, Bowers or Peterson are there no way do you make any trades imo.

 

[jobberone]

Wow..


Let's see:

Ed " too tall " Jones, Julius Peppers, Neil Smith, Bruce Smith, Chris Doleman, Leroy Selmon, John Matuszak, Al Cowlings, Mean Joe Greene, Bubba Smith...

You left off the greatest of all time.......Reggie White. Also Deacon Jones, Harvey Martin, two Purple People Eaters........

Of course DE is important. But I will admit a 3-4 DE in general is not as valuable as a 4-3 DE. But that's in general and there have been exceptions.

 

[Chuck 54]

Even in a 3-4, if you can get a DE with pass rush skills, it makes the defense decidedly better and has a huge impact...they don't have to get a bunch of sacks like Cullen Jenkins in GB...just pressuring the QB and getting OL attention would make both Ware and Spencer more effective.

Right now our entire pass rush, sacks and pressures, comes primarily from Ware on the outside...QB's can step up to beat his best move because we don't get a push from our DE's.

Ratliff gets a few sacks, but he doesn't push the pocket consistently...he can be doubled inside because our DE's, including Spears, cannot beat anyone 1-1.

If the Cowboys think JJ Watt or someone else will step in and start in the rotation and be a contributor in the pass rush, then I have no problem drafting him at #9. Despite what many think of our secondary, we need a top guy at DE even more than we need a CB, unless it's a guy who can be a starter or 3rd corner right away...not in this draft.

My original post indicated that I'm fine with DE at #9 because those are the highest rated players if the top impact guys like Dareus, Fairley, Miller, Green, are all gone.

Otherwise, we're going to trade down...I don't see us taking Prince at #9, and I don't see us taking an OT at #9. I don't see any other DB's or ILB's in round one. I simply asked if NE would make the trade...otherwise, I think we'll still collect draft picks by moving down 2-3 times and taking an OT and DE as early as possible.

I'm sure the scouts know much more than we learn from draft reports, but I don't see Dallas drafting a safety at all in this draft...maybe in FA.

 

[cowboyjoe]

That is absolutely crazy as it pertains to DE. Bruce Smith ring any bells? Mario Williams is definitely working out. far better than Reggie Bush who was everyone's #1 that year.

I do not want a DE at #9 either, but that is because we need OL and DB far worse.

I disagree with the part about DE, why? Randy White has said over and over that this teams needs help on defensive line, as well as offensive line. If one of those defensive ends could be a mario williams or a harvey martin, or a charles haley, then maybe consider him, but what I think needs to happen is this.

Trade down to 12th to 15th slot, pick up some extra high picks, then get that DE, Dallas might even be able to pick up Tryon Smith OT by the 12th slot or so.

Heck, say Lions call us, when we are on the clock, and they want one of the top WRs on the board, Jones for example, and Skins get wind of it and Shanahan wants him, we might be able to get a 3rd out of the skins, just by moving down one slot for example.

This teams needs help on offensive and defensive line. You can have great cover corners all you want, but if your not getting pass rush, you will suffer. Ware is a beast, but he is about all we had last year rushing. Then when Ratliff had surgery on both elbows he wasnt the same last year either, so it took a toll on pass rush, with team doubling and tripling Ware.

Now if we can say, get an extra 3rd or so by trading down from 9th to 12th or so, get Tyron Smith, then maybe Hayward DE, I think that would really help this team. While at the same time, Hayward reminds me of a Marcus Spears, in pass rush ability, thats why I am all for resigning Spears, and letting Hatcher go, he has been hurt every year.

This team needs a pass rusher too, badly.

:starspin and hopefully rob ryan can light a fire underneath spencer.

 

[cowboyjoe]

Even in a 3-4, if you can get a DE with pass rush skills, it makes the defense decidedly better and has a huge impact...they don't have to get a bunch of sacks like Cullen Jenkins in GB...just pressuring the QB and getting OL attention would make both Ware and Spencer more effective.

Right now our entire pass rush, sacks and pressures, comes primarily from Ware on the outside...QB's can step up to beat his best move because we don't get a push from our DE's.

Ratliff gets a few sacks, but he doesn't push the pocket consistently...he can be doubled inside because our DE's, including Spears, cannot beat anyone 1-1.

If the Cowboys think JJ Watt or someone else will step in and start in the rotation and be a contributor in the pass rush, then I have no problem drafting him at #9. Despite what many think of our secondary, we need a top guy at DE even more than we need a CB, unless it's a guy who can be a starter or 3rd corner right away...not in this draft.

My original post indicated that I'm fine with DE at #9 because those are the highest rated players if the top impact guys like Dareus, Fairley, Miller, Green, are all gone.

Otherwise, we're going to trade down...I don't see us taking Prince at #9, and I don't see us taking an OT at #9. I don't see any other DB's or ILB's in round one. I simply asked if NE would make the trade...otherwise, I think we'll still collect draft picks by moving down 2-3 times and taking an OT and DE as early as possible.

I'm sure the scouts know much more than we learn from draft reports, but I don't see Dallas drafting a safety at all in this draft...maybe in FA.

totally agree with that about the defensive line needs. Now, is that player we need J J Watt or Cameron Jordan, I dont know, but we have got to have a pass rusher besides ware and ratliff.

Hatcher stinks!

 

[Tobal]

Watt is very athletic, just because he's white doesn't mean he's not athletic. It just means he's more likely to be a bust

37" vertical and a 10' broadjump is a wee bnit better than most of us I think.

 

[JPM]

you have to throw in coakley other wise they aren't interested

I'll throw in Ellis too! Just to sweeten the deal.