Would The Flex Still Work?

[rcaldw]

Just an interesting question for coordinator types. From time to time retro becomes the future. When the Cowboys resurrected the shotgun it became the "modern" thing to do, even though it was a retro move. The "WildCat" formation is actually a spin off something old.

If someone resurrected the 4-3 "Flex" defense, would it work in today's NFL?

 

[Yeagermeister]

Who's going to teach it? I doubt that there are any coaches still around that know it well enough to teach it. I doubt the former players know it well enough to teach it either.

 

[TwoDeep3]

The Flex - if I recall correctly - was predicated on maintinging your gap and reading the play.

Zimmer's read and react would be similar I imagine. Although I do not know for sure.

I was never a big fan of Zimmer's defense.

But then I think back to the 81 NFC Championship game and was not enamored with the Flex's version of prevent either.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

the flex was only good when it was new.

The flex depends on minding your gaps and also reading the "keys."

A player has to learn the "keys" and recognize what an offense is doing based on lots of film watching. Once you learn the "keys" you can "read" the offense and anticipate.
Got it?

Offenses these days are much too sophisticated for this Landry anachronism.
The got old and Landry and Stautner got old.

No, wouldn't work today.

 

[CF74]

Our players only flex after making tackles when opposing teams make a 1st down, it might work though

 

[rcaldw]

As I've heard Charlie Waters and other describe it, the Flex defense was especially designed to shut down the run. If you had the right people on defense, and they did their jobs it was almost impossible to run against. Then, as we saw from Harvey Martin, Randy White and Ed Jones, once you put teams in long yardage situations, the pass rush could be ferocious.

I don't think the "league caught up to Landry" and the flex, I think the talent level fell to the point that we were just getting beat physically.

I agree with those who wonder if anyone could teach it properly. I think it speaks to Landry as an innovator when, to my knowledge, no one else ever ran it, and once he was gone, that defense was dead.

 

[JJB500]

As I've heard Charlie Waters and other describe it, the Flex defense was especially designed to shut down the run. If you had the right people on defense, and they did their jobs it was almost impossible to run against. Then, as we saw from Harvey Martin, Randy White and Ed Jones, once you put teams in long yardage situations, the pass rush could be ferocious.

I don't think the "league caught up to Landry" and the flex, I think the talent level fell to the point that we were just getting beat physically.

I agree with those who wonder if anyone could teach it properly. I think it speaks to Landry as an innovator when, to my knowledge, no one else ever ran it, and once he was gone, that defense was dead.

I am pretty sure Dick Nolan ran it in San Francisco in the 70's.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

A player has to learn the "keys" and recognize what an offense is doing based on lots of film watching. Once you learn the "keys" you can "read" the offense and anticipate.

A Defense that requires a high level of intelligence and discipline is not in the best interests of our current roster of Defensive "talent".

 

[rcaldw]

I am pretty sure Dick Nolan ran it in San Francisco in the 70's.

You are correct sir, thank you.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Our players only flex after making tackles when opposing teams make a 1st down, it might work though

 

[Canadian BoyzFan]

A Defense that requires a high level of intelligence and discipline is not in the best interests of our current roster of Defensive "talent".

Truer words never spoken.

 

[jterrell]

The Flex had a time and place but was awful here at the end.

When teams go to more passing on first downs it becomes marginalized and then really just ineffective.

I wish our players could tackle but the scheme here is actually a very, very solid one.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Without someone around who really understands it and can teach and coach it properly I can't see how it would have any shot, at all, of working in today's NFL.

And even with that I think it would struggle, greatly, with how much more complex the offenses have become. I doubt it would ever work as good as it once did for Landry.

 

[DavyBaby]

LANDRY WAS PLANNING TO SCRAP THE FLEX FOR THE 1989 SEASON.

If Landry had "survived" to go on and coach in 1989--he was planning to install a 3-4 defense (rumor was that Tex Schramm had pressured him to update the defense). A few days before the arrival of Jerry/Jones/Jimmy Johnson, Landry had fired long-time flex defensive coordinator Ernie Stautner and replaced him with 3-4 specialist George Hill.

As The Dallas Morning News reported on Wednesday, February 15, 1989:


"In replacing Ernie Stautner, the Cowboys' defensive coordinator since 1971, with Hill, Landry is branching off into foreign territory. Landry is sending a message that the days of his 4-3 Flex probably are over; the Cowboys no longer have the pass rush or the secondary speed to play a pressure defense. They got shot down by too many big plays last season: 30 touchdown passes and 68 completions longer than 20 yards. Enter Hill, a proponent of the conservative but highly effective 3-4 defenses used by Dick Vermeil and Marion Campbell in Philadelphia, where he worked as an assistant from 1979-84. Hill plays a contain-style run defense, and zone pass defense. Against George Hill , it might take you 12 minutes. But he's not going to give you some free shots by using crazy blitzes. He's going to make you beat him physically.'

Vermeil's strong recommendation was one of the reasons Landry hired Hill, who was fired on Dec. 19 because Colts coach Ron Meyer wanted to install a blitzing-style defense.

"I'm a firm believer in the guy,' Vermeil said. " George Hill is going to be a great assistant for Tom Landry."


from page 11B. Dallas Morning News Wednesday, February 15, 1989
Author: Bernie Miklasz: The Dallas Morning News

 

[joseephuss]

The Flex had a time and place but was awful here at the end.

When teams go to more passing on first downs it becomes marginalized and then really just ineffective.

I wish our players could tackle but the scheme here is actually a very, very solid one.

We actually don't really know that for sure. It was more of the players being awful at the end of the Landry era. The good players were old(Too Tall, Randy White) and the young players were not talented(Danny Noonan).

I think just about any scheme can work if you get the right players for it. The Flex just may be a difficult scheme to fill the roles needed to run it right than other schemes. The west coast offense doesn't work if you don't have the right people for it. The 46 defense also doesn't work if your don't have the right personnel.

Every defense depends on the players reading their keys to some extent whether it is a pre-snap key or during the play key. When I watch a lot of the highlights of the 70s I see the Dallas down linemen firing off at the snap of the ball. They weren't always sitting back waiting to make a read on the offense. Dallas did not run a passive defense.

 

[jobberone]

The perfect defense in the NFL is role players and schemes. You can't have a Howley do it all. You need cover LBs and run stoppers. IF you find a player that can do both then give him big bucks to stay. We have a great philosophy for defense. We just need health and three players more.

 

[Hostile]

The Flex required players to be very smart and to have good chemistry with each other. In today's era of Free Agency I don't think it would work because rosters are too fluid.

 

[rcaldw]

The perfect defense in the NFL is role players and schemes. You can't have a Howley do it all. You need cover LBs and run stoppers. IF you find a player that can do both then give him big bucks to stay. We have a great philosophy for defense. We just need health and three players more.

I wasn't suggesting we change our defense, I was just turning over the idea of whether or not the "Flex" could ever be resurrected and find success in today's NFL.

 

[rcaldw]

The Flex required players to be very smart and to have good chemistry with each other. In today's era of Free Agency I don't think it would work because rosters are too fluid.

This might be the best explanation of why it wouldn't work. I think Landry installed it in 1964 and it wasn't successful until 1968. In 1968 however, it was a MONSTER defense and extremely successful.

Was it that the players "got it", or was it that the talent base improved, or, probably, a combination?

 

[Hostile]

This might be the best explanation of why it wouldn't work. I think Landry installed it in 1964 and it wasn't successful until 1968. In 1968 however, it was a MONSTER defense and extremely successful.

Was it that the players "got it", or was it that the talent base improved, or, probably, a combination?

In 1965 Landry was under fire. The Cowboys had their first non losing year, but the fans and media were restless. More trouble than that, the players were grumbling in the press. Landry's schemes were too hard. They didn't work. It was a mess.

Everyone wanted Landry gone.

Tex Schramm gave him a 10 year extension. It sent a message to the players, this is your wake up call. This man is here for the duration. If you want to succeed you better buy into the system.

Ironically the guy best suited to the Flex is the one guy who free lanced a lot. Chuck Howley. The thing is, he seemed to know when he could free lance and when he couldn't. Actually a brilliant player. If you ever get to see replays of Super Bowl V and VI, tell me you've ever seen a player excel more in 2 Super Bowls. He was great.

Bob Lilly was the unquestioned leader of Doomsday. George Andrie was sometimes not considered the brightest player, but he was smart about one thing. He listened to Bob Lilly. Whatever Lilly wanted, Andrie did. He was so instinctive that he fit the Flex, but make no mistake, Bob Lilly was his brains.

In 1966 the Cowboys started winning and they would go on to win for 20 straight years. The impetus was the players realizing Landry was not going to be fired. Once they buckled down and realized they needed to come together they became a great team.

1968 was without a doubt the Cowboys best year in any that they did not win the Super Bowl. They averaged over 30 points per game and held apponents to just barely over 13 per game.

Landry put a lot of emphasis on smart players. You didn't have to be a Rhodes Scholar, but if you were football smart Landry admired that. I believe he said Dan Reeves was the smartest player to ever play for him. Must be why he immediately hired him as coach when Dan retired.