Would we match an Irving offer?

[NorthwestDallas40]

I am really discouraged by this talk of only a second round tender for David Irving. The difference between a first round tender ($4.1 million) and a second round tender ($2.9 million) is negligible. So I just don't understand not protecting the franchise better by rendering him higher. Even if you don't want to keep him long term (I believe we should because he is our third best D player), you tender him at a 1 and then negotiate with teams to trade on your terms, rather than getting a low 2 from NE or a team like that... my only hope is that, internally, we are committes to marching a long term offer if he gets one and using other teams to set the market rather than overpaying ourselves. Thoughts?

 

[northerncowboynation]

I am really discouraged by this talk of only a second round tender for David Irving. The difference between a first round tender ($4.1 million) and a second round tender ($2.9 million) is negligible. So I just don't understand not protecting the franchise better by rendering him higher. Even if you don't want to keep him long term (I believe we should because he is our third best D player), you tender him at a 1 and then negotiate with teams to trade on your terms, rather than getting a low 2 from NE or a team like that... my only hope is that, internally, we are committes to marching a long term offer if he gets one and using other teams to set the market rather than overpaying ourselves. Thoughts?

Thoughts? First, we don't know what the tender will be. Second, as fans we see sacks as the be-all-end-all with DE's. We don't see Irvings impact with his attitude and emotional swings in meetings or practice. Not saying what Irvings attitude is but there are certainly rumblings.

We crap all over JG for being weak with players. Not strong enough to be a good coach ya da ya da ya dah. Then when a decision, like tendering a player a second round tender because of some possible attitude problems, is made we crap all over him for letting sacks get away. Trust me, if there are attitude problems with Irving the NE Patriots won't touch him. Bellichic don't do player attitude.

Don't push the panic button. We may first round tender him OR we're in a good position with a second round tender to match or negotiate. It's a good position to be in not bad if there are some player concerns

 

[phildadon86]

Thoughts? First, we don't know what the tender will be. Second, as fans we see sacks as the be-all-end-all with DE's. We don't see Irvings impact with his attitude and emotional swings in meetings or practice. Not saying what Irvings attitude is but there are certainly rumblings.

We crap all over JG for being weak with players. Not strong enough to be a good coach ya da ya da ya dah. Then when a decision, like tendering a player a second round tender because of some possible attitude problems, is made we crap all over him for letting sacks get away. Trust me, if there are attitude problems with Irving the NE Patriots won't touch him. Bellichic don't do player attitude.

Yes he does. He just controls it like a real head coach can. Michael Bennett, Michael Floyd etc

 

[northerncowboynation]

Yes he does. He just controls it like a real head coach can. Michael Bennett, Michael Floyd etc

Huh? Are you saying Bellichic does do player attitude? Where is Blount now? Where is Butler headed? Michael Floyd no longer plays in NE. Michael Bennett? As far as I know he never played for Bellichic, may be wrong on that and the Seahawks have had just about enough of him and are shopping him around. If you mean Marty B, yeah we'll see how long that lasts in NE

 

[canters]

I predict there will be no offers to match a tender. If we think he has baggage, I would think other teams do as well.

 

[Cowboys22]

They know they will not sign him long term at the money he will command so get him for one more year cheap and take the comp pick or get the 2nd rounder now for him. Yes, he is good but he is inconsistent and unreliable. They have wasted too much time and money on those types of players and usually end up getting nothing when they leave. I’d love the 2nd round pick for him if they can get it.

 

[nycowboyfan]

We’ll know by the tender what the staff and FO think of him. If they use a second. They want somebody to sign him. If a first. I think it’s a wait and see approach.

I really hope he’s here long term. He has tremendous talent. If he’s a little strange then find a way to coach him. As Jason Garret’s dad said about Randy Moss when he pounded the table wanting to draft him. “This isn’t the Boy Scouts!”

 

[rags747]

I don't think he will get any offers at 2nd round tender anyway.

 

[Setackin]

If I was a GM for another team I’d definitely go for Irving. A 2nd is cheap, what are the chances you draft a DT or DE in the 2nd that has his production. It’s a no brained... I’m honestly more sold on Irving than dlaw. The injuries and big production in a contract year give me pause.

Marion Barber
Miles Austin
Jay Ratliff
Tyron Crawford
Brandon Carr

 

[darthseinfeld]

Could have more to do with the concussion than anything else. May be damaged goods

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Could have more to do with the concussion than anything else. May be damaged goods

I doubt that. They wouldn't have gave him a tender at all if so.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I doubt that. They wouldn't have gave him a tender at all if so.

They may tender him low to see if someone bites.

There is no way, concussion issue or no, they let Irving hit the market without a tender

 

[Leadbelly]

I think the whole strategy about tendering Irving at a RD2 level is exactly so Dallas can hope to match it.

If they tender at RD1, nobody sniffs around. He signs his 1-year offer and he plays the full season. If he had 16 games like the 8 he played in 2017, he's looking at a contract like Malik Jackson or Kawaan Short -- averaging approx $12,5MM per year. Cowboys cannot sign him to a contract like that, so they lose him and pick up a RD3 compensatory pick in 2020. If he has a weak season, he probably looks for a 1-yr 'prove it' deal and you'd be doing it all over again the next year or losing him without good compensatory pick value.

If they tender at RD2, a team might be enticed to sign him to an offer sheet for a multi-year contract. It's likely at a lot less than $12,5MM per year he's potentially looking at in 2019. Let's say 4 years at $30MM with 50% guaranteed. Dallas can manage that. Even if they let him go, they'd still get higher compensation than if they just kept him for one last year.

Basically, it sounds like Dallas knows it's very unlikely they can sign him as an UFA in 2019.

Best Case: You keep a young, game-changing DL by matching a RFA offer sheet on an undervalued multi-year contract.

OK Case: You lose him and pick up compensation anywhere between picks 33-64 in 2018 vs end of RD3 or worse in 2020.

Worst Case: Nobody signs him to an offer sheet. You have him for one more year, which is what was likely to happen anyway. He leaves and you get no better than pick 97 in 2020.

 

[northerncowboynation]

I predict there will be no offers to match a tender. If we think he has baggage, I would think other teams do as well.

Yes, there is that

 

[Leadbelly]

Also, at a RD2 tender, the team could work out a lesser trade that's still better than a compensatory pick in 2020.

A team might not want to sign him for a RD2 but they might do RD3 in '18 and RD3 in '19, for example.

 

[northerncowboynation]

If I was a GM for another team I’d definitely go for Irving. A 2nd is cheap, what are the chances you draft a DT or DE in the 2nd that has his production. It’s a no brained... I’m honestly more sold on Irving than dlaw. The injuries and big production in a contract year give me pause.

Marion Barber
Miles Austin
Jay Ratliff
Tyron Crawford
Brandon Carr

Tank Lawrence

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

They may tender him low to see if someone bites.

There is no way, concussion issue or no, they let Irving hit the market without a tender

If the guy is damaged goods? Whoever tries to sign him would give him a physical before they would sign him.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

If I was a GM for another team I’d definitely go for Irving. A 2nd is cheap, what are the chances you draft a DT or DE in the 2nd that has his production. It’s a no brained... I’m honestly more sold on Irving than dlaw. The injuries and big production in a contract year give me pause.

Marion Barber
Miles Austin
Jay Ratliff
Tyron Crawford
Brandon Carr

What about Sean Lee?

 

[Setackin]

What about Sean Lee?

Sean Lee has HoFer type production, with injury issues, and his contract isn’t bad at all. If it wasn’t for the injuries his contract would be a massive steal.

 

[Jumbo075]

Keep this in mind. A 2nd round tender doesn't inhibit the Cowboys from negotiating a longer term deal for Irving. It just keeps him off unrestricted free agent market.