WR2 rankings

Stash said:
Here are his game logs from last year:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KuppCo00.htm

3 catches for 17 yards?
0 catches vs San Francisco?
3 for 24 yards?
1 for 29?
1 for 29?

Not good.
Click to expand...
Yep but lets break those games down too....

@NO 3 for 17 yards....LA ran it 29 times for 156 yards vs just 24 passes. Kupp only ran 24 routes all game. LA gashed them in the run game all day.

@ SF 0 for 0....was just a 12-6 game. Was weather an issue? December game at SF could have been cold/windy/rainy? Neither QB threw for more than 160 that game so I'm assuming we had legitimate on field issues. Again just 24 routes for Kupp this game as LA ran it 38 times.

vs NYJ 3 for 24 yards....Just 15 routes for Kupp, 31 rush attempts vs 19 passes for LA.

vs ARZ 1 for 29 yards...Looks like this one is a legit bad game.

Overall I don't see it as that bad. Most of these they went with a run heavy approach. The Arizona game looks like his only true bad game, but all WRs are going to have those, especially if you're the #2 target. Lamb is always going to get feed but went 2 for 39 against NYG and 6 for just 21 against Philly. Tee Higgins only went 2 for 23 against us on MNF this year. Amon Ra St Brown went 3 for 13, 2 for 7 this year.

Kupps full body of work was still 12 games 357 routes 97 targets 67 catches 710 yards and 6tds
  • 27% target percentage - Great
  • 69% catch rate - Good
  • 2.0 yards per route - Great
  • 10.6 Yards per catch - Below average
    • This is where the red flag for me would be
His numbers overall look really strong with the exception being his yards per catch, thats down about 2 yards per catch from his career average. His YAC per catch is down about 1.7 yards as well. Tells me that his separation may not be quite as good and hes getting tackled quicker.
 
thunderpimp91 said:
Yep but lets break those games down too....

@NO 3 for 17 yards....LA ran it 29 times for 156 yards vs just 24 passes. Kupp only ran 24 routes all game. LA gashed them in the run game all day.

@ SF 0 for 0....was just a 12-6 game. Was weather an issue? December game at SF could have been cold/windy/rainy? Neither QB threw for more than 160 that game so I'm assuming we had legitimate on field issues. Again just 24 routes for Kupp this game as LA ran it 38 times.

vs NYJ 3 for 24 yards....Just 15 routes for Kupp, 31 rush attempts vs 19 passes for LA.

vs ARZ 1 for 29 yards...Looks like this one is a legit bad game.

Overall I don't see it as that bad. Most of these they went with a run heavy approach. The Arizona game looks like his only true bad game, but all WRs are going to have those, especially if you're the #2 target. Lamb is always going to get feed but went 2 for 39 against NYG and 6 for just 21 against Philly. Tee Higgins only went 2 for 23 against us on MNF this year. Amon Ra St Brown went 3 for 13, 2 for 7 this year.

Kupps full body of work was still 12 games 357 routes 97 targets 67 catches 710 yards and 6tds
  • 27% target percentage - Great
  • 69% catch rate - Good
  • 2.0 yards per route - Great
  • 10.6 Yards per catch - Below average
    • This is where the red flag for me would be
His numbers overall look really strong with the exception being his yards per catch, thats down about 2 yards per catch from his career average. His YAC per catch is down about 1.7 yards as well. Tells me that his separation may not be quite as good and hes getting tackled quicker.
Click to expand...
Who was Lamb’s quarterback for those low numbers?

Was Kupp without his starting quarterback?

And what does it say to you that the Rams cut him and ran out to pay another receiver big money?
 
Stash said:
Who was Lamb’s quarterback for those low numbers?

Was Kupp without his starting quarterback?

And what does it say to you that the Rams cut him and ran out to pay another receiver big money?
Click to expand...
Not sure the QB matters all that much in this scenario. This year Lambs bad stat games were with Rush. In 2023 he had multiple games with Dak where he had 36 yards against NE and 38 yards against Carolina. Tee Higgins had Joe Burrow for his bad game. ST Brown had Goff all year for his bad games....WRs are rarely going to step up and haul in big numbers for all 17 games in a season. Honestly with multiple receiving targets and a talked up run first approach we could see Lamb have more of those types of games this season if Dak has some of those 20-25 attempt games like Stafford did this past year with LA.

The Rams moving on is a fair argument, but it could have been a variety of factors there....they wanted resolution on the position before Kupp was willing to make a decision, could be that they are going away from the dual short split game with Kupp/Nacua and wanted a true outside guy like Adams, etc.

And to be honest I may actually throw on the film of Kupp and change my stance completely, it just seems like his overall numbers were fine, and those end of year low numbers a result of explainable factors...aside from the Arizona game, that one does give me some pause.
 
Pickens produced as a WR1 with scrub QBs and JAG WR2s.

The only one I'd take over him is Tee Higgins.

No other WR2 on that list is better IMO.
 
thunderpimp91 said:
Not sure the QB matters all that much in this scenario. This year Lambs bad stat games were with Rush. In 2023 he had multiple games with Dak where he had 36 yards against NE and 38 yards against Carolina. Tee Higgins had Joe Burrow for his bad game. ST Brown had Goff all year for his bad games....WRs are rarely going to step up and haul in big numbers for all 17 games in a season. Honestly with multiple receiving targets and a talked up run first approach we could see Lamb have more of those types of games this season if Dak has some of those 20-25 attempt games like Stafford did this past year with LA.
Click to expand...
I think it makes a huge difference. There’s a monumental drop off from Prescott to Cooper Rush.
thunderpimp91 said:
The Rams moving on is a fair argument, but it could have been a variety of factors there....they wanted resolution on the position before Kupp was willing to make a decision, could be that they are going away from the dual short split game with Kupp/Nacua and wanted a true outside guy like Adams, etc.

And to be honest I may actually throw on the film of Kupp and change my stance completely, it just seems like his overall numbers were fine, and those end of year low numbers a result of explainable factors...aside from the Arizona game, that one does give me some pause.
Click to expand...
I’d like to revisit this conversation if you do, because I’d like to know if your mind was changed.

I think the evidence is there and the most obvious answer is the correct one.
 
Stash said:
I think it makes a huge difference. There’s a monumental drop off from Prescott to Cooper Rush.
Click to expand...
Trust me, I'm not here to defend Rush or bash Dak. I agree completely the QB is going to factor into the overall numbers, I'm just saying that WRs are going to have some of those ugly stat number regardless of the QB. Tyreek Hill in 2021 had Mahomes and still had games of 3 for 14 yards, 2 for 22, 2 for 19, and 1 for 2 yards that year.

It wont be today, but I'm sure Ill take a look at some Kupp film from the end of 2024 and get back to you. I'm kinda curious now.
 
thunderpimp91 said:
Trust me, I'm not here to defend Rush or bash Dak. I agree completely the QB is going to factor into the overall numbers, I'm just saying that WRs are going to have some of those ugly stat number regardless of the QB. Tyreek Hill in 2021 had Mahomes and still had games of 3 for 14 yards, 2 for 22, 2 for 19, and 1 for 2 yards that year.
Click to expand...
Good point.

thunderpimp91 said:
It wont be today, but I'm sure Ill take a look at some Kupp film from the end of 2024 and get back to you. I'm kinda curious now.
Click to expand...
I’ll be interested to hear your thoughts. I have a great deal of respect for you and your opinion.
 
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