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[big dog cowboy]

It would be nice if the could use the young up and comers to build the tag team division.

I'm so sick of the Rhodes and Uso brothers it isn't watchable any more. I've never seen the tag team division so awful as it is now. At least they let Ryback come back solo instead of tagging with Curtis Axel.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

It would be nice if the could use the young up and comers to build the tag team division. Not only that, try and keep the tag teams together for at lest 4 to 5 years and really build that division. I miss the days of the strong tag teams like the von erichs, freebirds, demolition, LOD, Steiners, Harlem Heat, Doom, Hardys, Edge and Christian, the Rockers, etc.

This will allow them to polish their in ring and mic skills, as well as build a strong gimmick. Then, after a few years, a couple of them can break away from the tag team ranks and get a solo push, because they have proven themselves worthy, similar to HBK.

Vince has never been into the tag teams. I can understand that to a degree with the way contracts are and such and I think Vince feels that tag teams are more southern wrestling-ish. Heyman built up the tag division when he ran Smackdown and it worked.

I really enjoy tag teams when they are done right. You can have 2 tag matches on a card, one early in the card to get the crowd going and the other right before the main event to get the crowd hyped for the main event. It's a much easier style of wrestling to have a great match than in a singles match.

Still, I don't think the issue is so much talent. They have excellent athletes that can work in the ring. The 2 largest issues I see is that the writing is horrible. Part of that is the corporate structure of things. They want a wrestler to be in NXT and then when they like what the wrestler is doing in NXT, they want to move him/her up to the WWE come hell or high water even if the writers don't have any ideas for the wrestler. Then they end up crowbarring a gimmick and an angle and that often leads to terrible gimmicks that fall terribly flat. Then the blame game goes around and it usually falls on the wrestler and the wrestler gets released. I think of Paige when I think of this...she was great in NXT, but it looks like they forced the writers to make her the Divas title holder and I don't think she is ready for that. In the ring she's good when she gets the allotted time, but things rapidly change in the WWE. You get told you're going to have 10 minutes and before the match they change it to 6 minutes and then in the ring they are telling you to go home after 3 minutes.

Pro wrestling is very improvisational, but it's not like your typical improve which uses the 'yes and' principle. It's about reacting to one another in as plausible of a fashion as possible while still getting over whatever you are trying to get over. And that goes with confrontations on the mic and backstage vignettes, etc. I think the in-ring skills as far as execution goes are there. But between the strict writing and having to stick to that writing...you're just not going to take the improvisation out of wrestling no matter how hard you try. And the talent lacks the ability to improv properly because they've never been trained to do it.

The other part is none of the talent seems to be very good at *really* getting a feud over. That's what I think CM Punk's best trait was. He knew what he had to do and what his opponent in a feud had to do in order to get the fans into it. He understood that you have to build both sides of the feud up equally for the big pay-off and he knew how to do it. I watch somebody like the Big Show, a veteran, and he understands the basics but is very milquetoast in doing so. Other wrestlers are more concerned about having 5-star matches...which are nice, but don't get the feud over.






YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I'm so sick of the Rhodes and Uso brothers it isn't watchable any more. I've never seen the tag team division so awful as it is now. At least they let Ryback come back solo instead of tagging with Curtis Axel.

I never got into Goldust. He reminds me of those guys that are talented and well liked by the wrestlers and they appreciate his skill and ability, so they think the Goldust gimmick is better than it really is. Meanwhile, I think the gimmick with the fans has been very overrated since its inception. It's too hit-and-miss for me. The angles I like with the gimmick are usually followed with dreadful angles. I think Cody Rhodes is very milquetoast as well. I think he knows it as he's done everything to try and not be that. The other issue is it's hard to get an idea if the Rhodes' are heels are faces. It's alright to be a tweener, but they are not defined in that either. They seem to work face one week, then heel the next.

The USOs are just very pedestrian. I give them credit for trying to wrestle like a tag team. Using deceptive tags for the legal man. But, it comes off like they just read a 'Tag Team for Dummies' book. They are also supposed to be 'high fliers' and they are not that high flying. I preferred London/Kendrick as a high flying babyface tag team. Although I could see some concerns about those two given their lack of size, it would be tough to travel and wrestle that much and not get injured.





YR

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Pro wrestling is very improvisational, but it's not like your typical improve which uses the 'yes and' principle. It's about reacting to one another in as plausible of a fashion as possible while still getting over whatever you are trying to get over. And that goes with confrontations on the mic and backstage vignettes, etc. I think the in-ring skills as far as execution goes are there. But between the strict writing and having to stick to that writing...you're just not going to take the improvisation out of wrestling no matter how hard you try. And the talent lacks the ability to improv properly because they've never been trained to do it.


YR

Great point about improvisational skills, which are different than the inherent ability to wrestle or having a physical presence inside the ring.

The present guys simply do not have the opportunity to wrestle enough varied opponents, wrestling often enough with long enough matches to become competent at improvising in the ring.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

It would be nice if the could use the young up and comers to build the tag team division. Not only that, try and keep the tag teams together for at lest 4 to 5 years and really build that division. I miss the days of the strong tag teams like the von erichs, freebirds, demolition, LOD, Steiners, Harlem Heat, Doom, Hardys, Edge and Christian, the Rockers, etc.

This will allow them to polish their in ring and mic skills, as well as build a strong gimmick. Then, after a few years, a couple of them can break away from the tag team ranks and get a solo push, because they have proven themselves worthy, similar to HBK.

The other thing about tag teams is that they are a great way to do face or heel turns.

One of the best was High Chief Peter Maivia (father-in-law to Rocky Johnson and the grandfather of "The Rock") doing a heel turn on Bob Backlund as they were wrestling Victor Rivera and Spiros Arion.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I never got into Goldust.

I always wonder how much of his career he can contribute to his father. Cody on the other hand can hold his own individually.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Great point about improvisational skills, which are different than the inherent ability to wrestle or having a physical presence inside the ring.

The present guys simply do not have the opportunity to wrestle enough varied opponents, wrestling often enough with long enough matches to become competent at improvising in the ring.

What they used to do in some promotions, particularly in Japanese promotions, is take young wrestlers that showed promise and send them to Mexico, England, Canada and the US to learn. Tiger Mask wrestled a bit in Mexico and then in England before becoming Tiger Mask. Misawa wrestled in Mexico for a little while so he could learn lucha to go along with the All Japan heavyweight style. Lyger started out in Mexico and then New Japan picked him up and sent him to Calgary to learn.

That's how Punk and Daniel Bryan got so good. They wrestled throughout the entire country and then started to learn some European style and eventually made it to Japan.

I still believe that when it comes to matches, the styles of wrestling make for a better match than anything else. And if you can put together a good series of matches, you can create good feuds that the fans are interested in.

With the WWE, the training is all the same and the styles are pretty much either WWE junior style, WWE giant style or somewhere in between...taught the WWE way. Tough to tell much of a difference between how somebody like Luke Harper wrestles versus how Kane wrestles. The same with somebody like Randy Orton or John Cena.





YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I always wonder how much of his career he can contribute to his father. Cody on the other hand can hold his own individually.

Dustin is actually a really good worker in the ring. Having Dusty as his father hurt his career early on because Dusty had such a presence and was such a personality in the world of wrestling that nobody could really fill those shoes. So Dustin was a sharp worker in the ring, but since he couldn't fill his dad's shoes people thought he was just getting a push because of who his dad was. Then the Goldust gimmick came along and many thought it was done as a rib against Dusty (it probably was, but Dustin made it work).

I think Cody is much like Dustin, a pretty sharp worker in the ring that just doesn't quite have the 'it factor' to make him great.



YR

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Vince has never been into the tag teams. I can understand that to a degree with the way contracts are and such and I think Vince feels that tag teams are more southern wrestling-ish. Heyman built up the tag division when he ran Smackdown and it worked.

I really enjoy tag teams when they are done right. You can have 2 tag matches on a card, one early in the card to get the crowd going and the other right before the main event to get the crowd hyped for the main event. It's a much easier style of wrestling to have a great match than in a singles match.


YR

Tag-teams have always been a bit of a cluster for the different associations. The NWA didn't have sanctioned world tag-team champions until 1992. All the tag-team champs up until that point were recognized within their territory and that was it. That's why you ended up with world tag champs here, there and everywhere.

That being said tag-teams as we know were a much larger part of the pro wrestling scene than what they are now.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

What they used to do in some promotions, particularly in Japanese promotions, is take young wrestlers that showed promise and send them to Mexico, England, Canada and the US to learn. Tiger Mask wrestled a bit in Mexico and then in England before becoming Tiger Mask. Misawa wrestled in Mexico for a little while so he could learn lucha to go along with the All Japan heavyweight style. Lyger started out in Mexico and then New Japan picked him up and sent him to Calgary to learn.

That's how Punk and Daniel Bryan got so good. They wrestled throughout the entire country and then started to learn some European style and eventually made it to Japan.

I still believe that when it comes to matches, the styles of wrestling make for a better match than anything else. And if you can put together a good series of matches, you can create good feuds that the fans are interested in.

With the WWE, the training is all the same and the styles are pretty much either WWE junior style, WWE giant style or somewhere in between...taught the WWE way. Tough to tell much of a difference between how somebody like Luke Harper wrestles versus how Kane wrestles. The same with somebody like Randy Orton or John Cena.





YR

Great point about styles.

And that's what made many matches interesting was the difference in styles.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I have not watched wrestling in a looking time. However I like to listen to different podcasts at work. I recently found the Stone Cold Steve Austin pod cast. Been listening to his shows with guests like the heartbreak kid, hall, Nash and halfway through the DDP episodes. Did not know that DDP chose the wrestling name of Dallas because he was a huge Cowboys fan.

If you like the wrestlers listed I suggest the pod cast as it has been entertaining listening to how they got in the business and some of the back stories. Will warn you the Austin curses a great deal in his podcast but I think his app allows a clean channel that I imagine is the same as the regular podcast but with words beeped or edited out.