You just never know (Vontaze Burfict)

[RastaRocket]

If you are fail the planned NFL combine drug test you either have a problem with drugs, or you are just a moron. I don't want either of those things on this football team. Plus he is a natural WLB and we already have that in Carter.

I'd still take him. He is in with the majority of NFL players who toke.

 

[RastaRocket]

It was always known that he had talent, he was once thought to be a first round pick. I don't think anyone would have any real regret in not drafting him. More a matter of when things will go wrong than if.

Dez???

 

[JonJon]

It was always known that he had talent, he was once thought to be a first round pick. I don't think anyone would have any real regret in not drafting him. More a matter of when things will go wrong than if.

Then it becomes a question of risk/reward. In this situation, a team is drafting in the 7th round with Burfict still on the board. Everyone knows that he can play and everyone knows the negatives on his record. The risk in this situation is relatively low. 7th round selections aren't generally expected to have a long-life in the NFL, and some fail to even make the team. But you have a player sitting there with the potential to contribute at a high level if only for a few years.

So lets say hypothetically, Burfict contributes at a very high level for 3 years, finishing each season among the top of the league in tackles and also helping lower the yardage per play while in the game (When Burfict was on field, the Bengals defense allowed fewer yards per play at 4.5 compared to 6.9 when he was off the field).see[1]

Then in the offseason, he goes completely berserk and disappears in a jungle somewhere never to be seen again. Well, you still got 3 years of high productivity out of a 7th round selection. To me, those 3 years vastly outweigh a 7th rounder that gets no playing time at all and is out of football after one or two seasons of riding the bench.

 

[EightyEight]

jeez how much do you value the RKG requirement? if you had a shot at Cincy's leading tackler for league minimum you wouldn't take it?

This "RKG" crap isn't working its just time to start taking players than can play.

 

[xwalker]

I remember last year around draft time there were a handful of us with interest in Vontaze Burfict. His draft stock plummeted because of off the field issues and a poor combine. He eventually went undrafted and was signed by the Bengals where he had a fantastic rookie season, led his team in tackles and clearly outperformed his contract. (that could've been our strongside linebacker)

I wonder who some of the hidden gems are this season.

Character issues are a long term concern. Having an excellent rookie season does not prove that his character issues won't resurface.

 

[Verdict]

before we sing the praises of this guy, lets see how his entire career turns out. lots of guys put there past behind them for awhile and then it returns. time will tell if he really turned it around but one season is not enough to judge a guy with his history by

That has some merit. On the other hand I think the smart money would bet that Burfict has already accomplished more in his rookie year than McSurdy will achieve in his entire NFL career.

 

[Verdict]

Character issues are a long term concern. Having an excellent rookie season does not prove that his character issues won't resurface.

I agree with that, wholeheartedly. But would drafting Burfict in the 7th and getting one good year out of him outweigh drafting McSurdy if McSurdy never sees the field? I would contend that it is possible even if Burfict becomes malignant melanoma in the locker room, gets cut tomorrow and never sees the field again that he may still have been worth more than McSurdy.

In the case of Burfict the risk associated with him is that he is not manageable from a character stand point. With McSurdy the risk is that he may not ever be good enough to play for us. They are both realistic risks. Just different kinds of risk.

 

[egn22]

Then it becomes a question of risk/reward. In this situation, a team is drafting in the 7th round with Burfict still on the board. Everyone knows that he can play and everyone knows the negatives on his record. The risk in this situation is relatively low. 7th round selections aren't generally expected to have a long-life in the NFL, and some fail to even make the team. But you have a player sitting there with the potential to contribute at a high level if only for a few years.

So lets say hypothetically, Burfict contributes at a very high level for 3 years, finishing each season among the top of the league in tackles and also helping lower the yardage per play while in the game (When Burfict was on field, the Bengals defense allowed fewer yards per play at 4.5 compared to 6.9 when he was off the field).see[1]

Then in the offseason, he goes completely berserk and disappears in a jungle somewhere never to be seen again. Well, you still got 3 years of high productivity out of a 7th round selection. To me, those 3 years vastly outweigh a 7th rounder that gets no playing time at all and is out of football after one or two seasons of riding the bench.

on point again! its really that simple. 7th rounder production is like bonus. why not take it? the upside outweighs the downside.

 

[Verdict]

In the case of Burfict I think he went undrafted.

 

[Verdict]

Character issues are a long term concern. Having an excellent rookie season does not prove that his character issues won't resurface.

I will go one step farther and say I would much rather have a guy like Jay Ratliff than Burfict. I think in the 6th and 7th rounds I would be selecting productive players who were dominant in college in highly successful college programs rather than looking for hidden gems in division III. They have already shown they can get it done against the best the college ranks has to offer. I think our miss rate would be a little bit lower.

 

[JonJon]

I agree with that, wholeheartedly. But would drafting Burfict in the 7th and getting one good year out of him outweigh drafting McSurdy if McSurdy never sees the field? I would contend that it is possible even if Burfict becomes malignant melanoma in the locker room, gets cut tomorrow and never sees the field again that he may still have been worth more than McSurdy.

In the case of Burfict the risk associated with him is that he is not manageable from a character stand point. With McSurdy the risk is that he may not ever be good enough to play for us. They are both realistic risks. Just different kinds of risk.

Excellent point.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

We don't really know what McSurdy is yet. Hard to answer what you might rather have. McSurdy is basically Carter after his first year at this point. In retrospect, I'd certainly rather have Carter. Now, I'm not saying McSurdy is going to be Carter. In fact, I'd be inclined to bet big money he won't be but still, the point on McSurdy is that we don't know yet.

The problem with Burfict will be when he gets his first big money contract. He doesn't have enough scratch to really live large right now but when he does get paid, does anybody really think he's going to live a quiet, unobtrusive lifestyle?

 

[xwalker]

I agree with that, wholeheartedly. But would drafting Burfict in the 7th and getting one good year out of him outweigh drafting McSurdy if McSurdy never sees the field? I would contend that it is possible even if Burfict becomes malignant melanoma in the locker room, gets cut tomorrow and never sees the field again that he may still have been worth more than McSurdy.

In the case of Burfict the risk associated with him is that he is not manageable from a character stand point. With McSurdy the risk is that he may not ever be good enough to play for us. They are both realistic risks. Just different kinds of risk.

The risk of McSurdy failing is limited to McSurdy.

The risk with Burfict could extend to the locker room and could affect more than just the individual player.

Having said the above, I didn't understand the McSurdy pick. I would much prefer a high upside player that is available due to various reasons like injury, small college or possibly a player like Burfict with character concerns.

 

[Nightman]

I think the test case this year is Baccari Rambo. He is FS that is probably a first or second round talent that might slip to the 4th because of a failed drug test. He has been labeled a non-RKG, but can really play. The failed drug test was for weed during Spring Break, not exactly armed robbery or domestic assault. I would take a chance on him, especially at that price.

 

[Verdict]

The risk of McSurdy failing is limited to McSurdy.

I agree with this statement

The risk with Burfict could extend to the locker room and could affect more than just the individual player.

Again, I agree with this statement.

Having said the above, I didn't understand the McSurdy pick. I would much prefer a high upside player that is available due to various reasons like injury, small college or possibly a player like Burfict with character concerns.

That is the main point I was getting at. You don't select players based on how many hours they spend in church on Sunday. You draft them based on how well they can play the game of football (within your scheme) and their character is of concern only if it falls below a certain standard that impairs their ability to play, be manageable by the coaching staff or affects other players on the team in a negative manner which outweighs the talent ability and work ethic that they bring to the table

Just my two cents.

 

[DFWJC]

The risk of McSurdy failing is limited to McSurdy.

The risk with Burfict could extend to the locker room and could affect more than just the individual player.

Having said the above, I didn't understand the McSurdy pick. I would much prefer a high upside player that is available due to various reasons like injury, small college or possibly a player like Burfict with character concerns.

A nice hindsight pick in the 7th would have been Bryce Brown. No need to draft a RB this year if that happened.

 

[Apollo Creed]

I remember last year around draft time there were a handful of us with interest in Vontaze Burfict. His draft stock plummeted because of off the field issues and a poor combine. He eventually went undrafted and was signed by the Bengals where he had a fantastic rookie season, led his team in tackles and clearly outperformed his contract. (that could've been our strongside linebacker)

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ops-all-nfl-players-in-performance-based-pay/

I wonder who some of the hidden gems are this season.

I got laughed out of a thread at the suggestion of taking him late last year.

 

[Angus]

The risk of McSurdy failing is limited to McSurdy.

The risk with Burfict could extend to the locker room and could affect more than just the individual player.

Having said the above, I didn't understand the McSurdy pick. I would much prefer a high upside player that is available due to various reasons like injury, small college or possibly a player like Burfict with character concerns.

You make an excellent point but then sour it with your last seven words. Risk of a lingering bad locker room smell, known in advance, is too much of a risk when a guy's past bad behavior is not sure to be corrected (and it never is in advance).

 

[hornitosmonster]

same guys crying that we didnt deaft him would be the same guys complaining if we did draft him. There would have been a Jerry bashing thread the second we took him.

 

[kazzd58]

He wouldnt have gotten the same opportunity here in Dallas i promise you... He made the right choice for him to choose Cincy