Zack Martin a wild card for 1 st rd ?

[Fredd]

I would be happy with any of the 3 ND players in the first round under the right circumstances...Martin, Nix, Tuitt

 

[burmafrd]

Roos 33-3/4, Bulaga 33-1/4.

The jury is still out on how good Justin Pugh will be and if he can move to LT.

Joe Thomas is 6'6-5/8. Martin is 6'4. The concern is more about total wingspan (shoulder width + arm length) than just arm length. Martin's wingspan is smaller than some CBs. I'm not saying that he can't do it, but you're betting against the averages to assume that he can. Like I said, it's not too big of an issue because he can always move to Guard; however, you have to determine if he can carry much more than his current 305 on his frame before making him a 1st round pick, IMO.

never figured out why 1 inch makes so much difference

 

[xwalker]

never figured out why 1 inch makes so much difference

Yep, arm length didn't keep Phil Costa from being All Pro, Oh wait...

Obviously some players have defied the odds, but IMO, good teams draft based on probabilities. Having really short arms just lowers a prospects probabilitty of being successful at the next level. Optimum for an OT is 36".

 

[NeonDeion21]

Yep, arm length didn't keep Phil Costa from being All Pro, Oh wait...

Obviously some players have defied the odds, but IMO, good teams draft based on probabilities. Having really short arms just lowers a prospects probabilitty of being successful at the next level. Optimum for an OT is 36".

FWIW, Bill Callahan likes his position flexibility and he has told some around VR, including Bryan Broddaus, that he would start Martin at OG Day 1.

 

[dogberry]

I'm curious, so I'll drag my ignorance out. What's optimum for guards and centers?

 

[burmafrd]

Yep, arm length didn't keep Phil Costa from being All Pro, Oh wait...

Obviously some players have defied the odds, but IMO, good teams draft based on probabilities. Having really short arms just lowers a prospects probabilitty of being successful at the next level. Optimum for an OT is 36".

Gil Brandt said they passed on Mike Singletary because he was ONE INCH under the minimum they wanted for LBs.

 

[CowboysLaw87]

Gil Brandt said they passed on Mike Singletary because he was ONE INCH under the minimum they wanted for LBs.

When you play the probabilities you'll miss here and there. But not as often as you'll miss if you don't play the probabilities. That's the point. There will always be the exception to the rule you can point to... but that doesn't change that there's a rule for a reason.

 

[burmafrd]

When you play the probabilities you'll miss here and there. But not as often as you'll miss if you don't play the probabilities. That's the point. There will always be the exception to the rule you can point to... but that doesn't change that there's a rule for a reason.

they were too rigid; they did not look deeper that was a problem once the rest of the league caught up to them in the late 70's and early 80's.

They passed on both Joe Montana and MIke Singletary. Both pretty much for the same reason. Size.

 

[xwalker]

FWIW, Bill Callahan likes his position flexibility and he has told some around VR, including Bryan Broddaus, that he would start Martin at OG Day 1.

I assume that you are getting this from some of the videos on the Cowboys' website.

I like Martin as a Guard and I like the concept that he could probably play OT, at least in a backup role. I would just be sure to rank him based on being an Guard and not elevate his ranking based on playing OT.

 

[NeonDeion21]

I assume that you are getting this from some of the videos on the Cowboys' website.

I like Martin as a Guard and I like the concept that he could probably play OT, at least in a backup role. I would just be sure to rank him based on being an Guard and not elevate his ranking based on playing OT.

Yes. But I don't know that him being a Guard here necessarily moves him down the board further. We have seen in recent years that the Cowboys value guards in the draft with Cooper, Warmack and DeCastro all receiving high first round grades. They have also spent big money on Davis, Livings, MB and Waters.

 

[xwalker]

Yes. But I don't know that him being a Guard here necessarily moves him down the board further. We have seen in recent years that the Cowboys value guards in the draft with Cooper, Warmack and DeCastro all receiving high first round grades. They have also spent big money on Davis, Livings, MB and Waters.

Yes, I realize that. Also, the Cowboys might be more likely to take a Guard or Guard/Tackle than a Tackle only type player if need has an impact on the decision.

If you rank him as a Guard only, then a couple of questions come up. Is he powerful enough at 305 lbs to play Guard. Does his small wingspan indicate that he is maxed out on his frame? The fact that the Cowboys play a Zone Blocking scheme would make it less of an issue than it might be for some teams.

 

[NeonDeion21]

Agreed. I have a feeling this guy is going to get a lot more consideration from the Cowboys than we might have ever expected. I'm not sure there is a lot of risk there and I think JC prefers to go the safer route in the 1st.

 

[RS12]

The only 2 OL I am interested in the first round is Cyrus Kouandjio and Greg Robinson. And we all know Robinson is a top 5 pick.

Kouandjio will be there when they pick, and would be hard to pass up IMO.

 

[RS12]

-- I went back and watched more Greg Robinson tape. He's one of those guys who is really talented. He can get overextended at times and needs to improve his footwork but he really finishes. If you need an offensive lineman, he would be a great addition. I think he's good enough to play left tackle. You can start him at guard. You can start him at right tackle as well. He's probably the best run blocker in the entire draft. I really enjoyed watching his tape. He did have some inconsistencies in pass blocking, where he would get overextended or was late off the snap, but no one finished better in the run game.

-- I watched more of Cyrus Kouandjio's tape to compare them and I think they have a lot of the same attributes. Kouandjio is also a really nasty run blocker. I just think Robinson is more rangy, and is more athletic. They're really similar players.

http://www.cowboyszone.com/2014/01/cowboys-draft-2014-cowboys-nation-top.html

 

[jnday]

Yes, I realize that. Also, the Cowboys might be more likely to take a Guard or Guard/Tackle than a Tackle only type player if need has an impact on the decision.

If you rank him as a Guard only, then a couple of questions come up. Is he powerful enough at 305 lbs to play Guard. Does his small wingspan indicate that he is maxed out on his frame? The fact that the Cowboys play a Zone Blocking scheme would make it less of an issue than it might be for some teams.

I don't want him due to his size unless he can get in the 320lb range. The biggest failure in drafting OL is hoping they can gain weight and strength. IMO there are OL that has the size and power to step in day one without the gamble that the strength and size with develop. Frederick didn't need time to develop in those areas and it worked out well.

 

[xwalker]

I don't want him due to his size unless he can get in the 320lb range. The biggest failure in drafting OL is hoping they can gain weight and strength. IMO there are OL that has the size and power to step in day one without the gamble that the strength and size with develop. Frederick didn't need time to develop in those areas and it worked out well.

I think you have to take an educated guess on which players will get bigger. Tyron Smith was 307 when drafted, but he has a big frame with a big wingspan. He was also strong in both the bench testing and in game footage.

Martin appears to be very strong in game footage. He's not David Arkin; however, he's also not Tyron Smith.
Wingspan:
Tyron Smith 84-5/8
Zack Martin 76-7/8

 

[burmafrd]

I think you have to take an educated guess on which players will get bigger. Tyron Smith was 307 when drafted, but he has a big frame with a big wingspan. He was also strong in both the bench testing and in game footage.

Martin appears to be very strong in game footage. He's not David Arkin; however, he's also not Tyron Smith.
Wingspan:
Tyron Smith 84-5/8
Zack Martin 76-7/8

kind of unfair to compare a mortal to superman

 

[TheCount]

Zack Martin is also a guy Broaddus won't shut up about. Last year, the random guy he kept bringing up was J.J. Wilcox and the Cowboys snagged him - so it's possible he knows something about the Cowboys interest in the guy.

 

[xwalker]

Zack Martin is also a guy Broaddus won't shut up about. Last year, the random guy he kept bringing up was J.J. Wilcox and the Cowboys snagged him - so it's possible he knows something about the Cowboys interest in the guy.

His (Broaddus) favorite player last year was Floyd.

 

[xwalker]

I'm curious, so I'll drag my ignorance out. What's optimum for guards and centers?

Travis Frederick 33"

The 2 Guards drafted in the top 10 in the 2013 draft:
Chance Warmack 34-3/4"
Jonathan Cooper 33"

Two top NFL Guards:
Jahri Evans 34-1/8"
Logan Mankins 33-3/8"