Players bullying front office

[CouchCoach]

Goes both ways. We're not informed on the proper route/place to be as a WR. And, how a WR may have adjusted to a pass that was not thrown accurately.

Not only that but some of these larger CBs are adept at film study and rerouting WR's when they come off the line.

I would like to see a stat sometime regarding pass plays executed perfectly to improv by the QB and WR. I think we would be quite surprised at the difference in plays that take longer than 2 seconds to develop. Add to this, the league is allowing these "legal pick plays" and I have re-watched many a play from the QB's view and that's a heavy pattern in that secondary. And Prescott is 6'2" and back there with the size of the lines, every inch matters. He's got to move within the pocket to get passing lanes.

 

[cern]

were we bullied into signing la'el collins and Jaylon? zeke was a good deal, overall. Lawrence? not so sure. the deal with dak has yet to be done so how can anyone say it's a good or bad deal? I don't see anything going on as bullying in the least. should Stephen and jerry say dak sucks and deal from that perspective? great way to set the tone for serious negotiations. does anyone here think the chiefs and andy reid will start the mahomey deal by saying he sucks? were not the seahawks effusive in their praise of Russell Wilson prior to signing him to a most lucrative deal. think, people. put your little emotions away and try and be logical.

 

[OmerV]

Goes both ways. We're not informed on the proper route/place to be as a WR. And, how a WR may have adjusted to a pass that was not thrown accurately.

That's a fair point. And the other thing is fans tend to downplay Dak's completion percentage because the completions include passes that are caught that weren't thrown in the ideal spot, but that's true of every QB, not just Dak. Truthfully I think Dak has a few very noticeable missed throws here and there that stick in fans minds, and because it sticks it fools fans into believing it happens more than it does. I don't deny that he could use work on his timing on crossing patterns, but I think the noticeable cases make it seem like a bigger problem than it is.

 

[CATCH17]

That's a fair point. And the other thing is fans tend to downplay Dak's completion percentage because the completions include passes that are caught that weren't thrown in the ideal spot, but that's true of every QB, not just Dak. Truthfully I think Dak has a few very noticeable missed throws here and there that stick in fans minds, and because it sticks it fools fans into believing it happens more than it does. I don't deny that he could use work on his timing on crossing patterns, but I think the noticeable cases make it seem like a bigger problem than it is.

An example of that would be a play like this..

 

[cern]

qb's sometimes deliberately throw the ball slightly behind a left to right or right to left moving receiver because they see a defender closing in for the kill from the blind side. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. dak does this often. sometimes an incompletion is better than a concussion.

 

[G2]

That's a fair point. And the other thing is fans tend to downplay Dak's completion percentage because the completions include passes that are caught that weren't thrown in the ideal spot, but that's true of every QB, not just Dak. Truthfully I think Dak has a few very noticeable missed throws here and there that stick in fans minds, and because it sticks it fools fans into believing it happens more than it does. I don't deny that he could use work on his timing on crossing patterns, but I think the noticeable cases make it seem like a bigger problem than it is.

I agree. I took heavy fire when I suggested that other QBs aren't doing things differently than Prescott and that most fans are just more focused on Dallas.
I think he took a big step this past season. He cleaned up his throws, and it's not like he was awful before; he just got better. And we saw him struggle with the shoulder issue. Other than that, he's been very good IMO.

 

[G2]

qb's sometimes deliberately throw the ball slightly behind a left to right or right to left moving receiver because they see a defender closing in for the kill from the blind side. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. dak does this often. sometimes an incompletion is better than a concussion.

Another good point.

 

[cern]

Another good point.

muchas gracias.

 

[OmerV]

An example of that would be a play like this..

That's an example, but I don't think the best example because there was a safety coming over from the middle of the field that potentially could have made a play if the pass had been more toward the middle of the field. So I understand not trying to hit the receiver in perfect stride, but obviously Dak didn't even give the receiver a reasonable chance to catch the pass.

The occasional throw that a receiver has no chance for really isn't that much of a concern for me, and that's especially true of that kind of throw a little downfield with DBs around the play you want to keep the ball away from - those things happen with every QB. The ones I really think he needs to work on are more the 8-15 yard crossing patterns over the middle. A bit too often he is behind the receiver. Often it is still catchable, even without great effort, but it does make it at least a somewhat harder catch, and can break the receiver's stride so that he won't gain the yardage after the catch that he otherwise could. The encouraging thing to me is that is more of a timing issue that he should be able to improve upon..

 

[kskboys]

I agree. I took heavy fire when I suggested that other QBs aren't doing things differently than Prescott and that most fans are just more focused on Dallas.
I think he took a big step this past season. He cleaned up his throws, and it's not like he was awful before; he just got better. And we saw him struggle with the shoulder issue. Other than that, he's been very good IMO.

I'm very excited to see Dak under a different staff. Although I don't see McC as awesome or anything, I do consider him a legit NFL coach, and that alone will make us take a step up, IMO.

 

[G2]

I'm very excited to see Dak under a different staff. Although I don't see McC as awesome or anything, I do consider him a legit NFL coach, and that alone will make us take a step up, IMO.

I'm very intrigued. I like the staff he's put together.

 

[CATCH17]

That's an example, but I don't think the best example because there was a safety coming over from the middle of the field that potentially could have made a play if the pass had been more toward the middle of the field. So I understand not trying to hit the receiver in perfect stride, but obviously Dak didn't even give the receiver a reasonable chance to catch the pass.

The occasional throw that a receiver has no chance for really isn't that much of a concern for me, and that's especially true of that kind of throw a little downfield with DBs around the play you want to keep the ball away from - those things happen with every QB. The ones I really think he needs to work on are more the 8-15 yard crossing patterns over the middle. A bit too often he is behind the receiver. Often it is still catchable, even without great effort, but it does make it at least a somewhat harder catch, and can break the receiver's stride so that he won't gain the yardage after the catch that he otherwise could. The encouraging thing to me is that is more of a timing issue that he should be able to improve upon..

That was a routine throw and catch.. You have to complete that.

The crossers are his main problem.. He’s not good at leading the receiver.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Likewise, just because a pass wasn't completed doesn't mean it wasn't QB accuracy. Dak was a victim of a lot of that with Cooper on the road.

I concur. I just wanted to make sure to take care with stats.

 

[OmerV]

That was a routine throw and catch.. You have to complete that.

The crossers are his main problem.. He’s not good at leading the receiver.

20 yards downfield with a safety on the inside and a CB tagging behind the WR is not routine. That's not to say it was among the most difficult of plays, but that is not routine. But it wasn't my point that it was highly difficult, I was just saying there was more at play than just throwing to a spot without regard for the defensive coverage. And, as I said, Dak didn't execute it well because he didn't really give the receiver a chance.

The 8-15 yard crossing patterns are really the routine ones, and he has to get that timing down. I don't think he throws behind receivers in that situation as often as some think, but it is a little more often than should be expected.

 

[kskboys]

20 yards downfield with a safety on the insider and a CB tagging behind the WR is not routine. That's not to say it was among the most difficult of plays, but that is not routine. But it wasn't my point that it was highly difficult, I was just saying there was more at play than just throwing to a spot without regard for the defensive coverage. And, as I said, Dak didn't execute it well because he didn't really give the receiver a chance.

The 8-15 yard crossing patterns are really the routine one, and he has to get that timing down. I don't think he throws behind receivers in that situation as often as some think, but it is a little more often than should be expected.

Good stuff.

Most people apparently would be shocked at how often 20 yard passes are missed.

 

[CouchCoach]

That was a routine throw and catch.. You have to complete that.

The crossers are his main problem.. He’s not good at leading the receiver.

That is a problem with many a QB, was with Romo as well. They were both fine with the slower and larger Witten but let a WR come across and they'd either misjudge his speed or not have the lane open. On some replays, after seeing a pass behind the WR, I would watch from behind the QB and his timing within the passing lane was off. He was totally counting on the WR to either catch that or keep it from being a tip drill for real.

And the physical DB's are really good at disrupting the timing so it's not always on the QB. And they're taught not to lead a WR into danger.

 

[CATCH17]

20 yards downfield with a safety on the inside and a CB tagging behind the WR is not routine. That's not to say it was among the most difficult of plays, but that is not routine. But it wasn't my point that it was highly difficult, I was just saying there was more at play than just throwing to a spot without regard for the defensive coverage. And, as I said, Dak didn't execute it well because he didn't really give the receiver a chance.

The 8-15 yard crossing patterns are really the routine ones, and he has to get that timing down. I don't think he throws behind receivers in that situation as often as some think, but it is a little more often than should be expected.

Well I disagree.. There wasn’t anything difficult about making that throw.. The safety was a non factor.You can’t miss a player standing in that much space.. Cooper wasn’t even a moving target.

In the NFL that is considered wide open.

 

[CouchCoach]

Good stuff.

Most people apparently would be shocked at how often 20 yard passes are missed.

It's like that elevated view we get as viewers opposed to what the QB is seeing. Prescott is 6'2" and 2" shorter than his OL with taller DL coming in on him. He has to move the pocket just to see his receivers many times.

 

[CATCH17]

That is a problem with many a QB, was with Romo as well. They were both fine with the slower and larger Witten but let a WR come across and they'd either misjudge his speed or not have the lane open. On some replays, after seeing a pass behind the WR, I would watch from behind the QB and his timing within the passing lane was off. He was totally counting on the WR to either catch that or keep it from being a tip drill for real.

And the physical DB's are really good at disrupting the timing so it's not always on the QB. And they're taught not to lead a WR into danger.

Dak doesn’t really have a back shoulder throw in his arsenal... He doesn’t throw a good 50/50 ball..

His whole thing is the receiver getting separation and then throwing.

 

[CouchCoach]

were we bullied into signing la'el collins and Jaylon? zeke was a good deal, overall. Lawrence? not so sure. the deal with dak has yet to be done so how can anyone say it's a good or bad deal? I don't see anything going on as bullying in the least. should Stephen and jerry say dak sucks and deal from that perspective? great way to set the tone for serious negotiations. does anyone here think the chiefs and andy reid will start the mahomey deal by saying he sucks? were not the seahawks effusive in their praise of Russell Wilson prior to signing him to a most lucrative deal. think, people. put your little emotions away and try and be logical.

Disagree on Elliott being a good deal, no RB is worth that much in the NFL today. There are too many available every year. They blinked like Wally Cox on that deal.