Putting all the Blame on the Front Office is Disingenuous

817Gill

817Gill

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Coop and Dak’s agents both wanted to wait until the CBA and other comparable contracts were signed. In Coopers case, he was signed to an agency with 2 agents repping him. The agency split and Coop had to take some time to decide which of the two would represent him. In Daks case we all know who Todd France is and what Dak was doing when he made that switch. Byron IMO was never a serious candidate for a long term top of the market deal.

We see stories about the team not being in contact but the reports and quotes from Amari and Daks negotiations illustrate that the players representation wants to exercise all possible leverage. More power to them but it takes 2 to negotiate. I know we think the FO is run by idiots but they literally have no incentive at all to wait till the last second to initiate communication. Deadlines make deals when you negotiate; not when the other party isn’t willing to talk at all.
 
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817Gill said:
Coop and Dak’s agents both wanted to wait until the CBA and other comparable contracts were signed. In Coopers case, he was signed to an agency with 2 agents repping him. The agency split and Coop had to take some time to decide which of the two would represent him. In Daks case we all know who Todd France is and what Dak was doing when he made that switch.

We see stories about the team not being in contact but the reports and quotes from Amari and Daks negotiations illustrate that the players representation wants to exercise all possible leverage. More power to them but it takes 2 to negotiate. I know we think the FO is run by idiots but they literally have no incentive at all to wait till the last second to initiate communication. Deadlines make deals when you negotiate; not when the other party isn’t willing to talk at all.
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I disagree to some extent.

I think that if the Cowboys had pressed earlier, and at the time offered deals that would then have looked to outsiders like you and me as 'overpaying', they could have closed the deal then. Plenty of teams did just that, nobody's going to tell me the Cowboys couldn't or that only these players and agents were 'smart enough' to know where the market was going.

No, I'll first believe that a known cheapskate son, gifted the job by his Daddy, mishandled things and thought he could strong-arm both into taking his cheap deals. I've read enough and heard enough to support that feeling as well. Other people are free of course to believe whatever they want or feel the need to as well.
 
I'd be more willing to buy into this if not for the fact this front office typically trips over their own schlong at this time.

So until proven otherwise, I think it's safe to assume the front office, at least, bears a bit of responsibility here.
 
Ok, I will blame this front office 99% then. The good NFL front offices get things done and they get them done well in advance of deadlines. This GM is the only one in the league that doesn’t spend all his time as a GM.

The Jones family runs this team like a rich man’s hobby instead of a serious professional sports organization that hires the best people to run it so they can win a championship. The Jones family wants to win but not enough to do what it takes to win.
 
@Sydla @stasheroo @CATCH17 @Bobhaze

I see y’all saying we do this all the time and I get where you are coming from, but we literally always sign our pro-bowl caliber guys. This would literally be the only year we let pro bowl talent walk. We signed Zeke, signed DLaw, we signed Zach Martin a few years back, Dez as well when he was up.

The team does use the “deadlines make deals” mantra but it always felt like they started negotiations at a reasonable time and tried to get the home town deal. Then as they pushed towards the deadline would give ground, only to agree to whatever was on the table at the 11th hour. To me it seems as Coop/Daks agents made it impossible to have good faith negotiations early, adding to that the status of the CBA you get some of the most unique and difficult negotiating parameters I’ve ever seen.

I think most teams would be in a position of gridlock with these guys in this situation to some extent
 
817Gill said:
@Sydla @stasheroo @CATCH17 @Bobhaze

I see y’all saying we do this all the time and I get where you are coming from, but we literally always sign our pro-bowl caliber guys. This would literally be the only year we let pro bowl talent walk. We signed Zeke, signed DLaw, we signed Zach Martin a few years back, Dez as well when he was up.

The team does use the “deadlines make deals” mantra but it always felt like they started negotiations at a reasonable time and tried to get the home town deal. Then as they pushed towards the deadline would give ground, only to agree to whatever was on the table at the 11th hour. To me it seems as Coop/Daks agents made it impossible to have good faith negotiations early, adding to that the status of the CBA you get some of the most unique and difficult negotiating parameters I’ve ever seen.

I think most teams would be in a position of gridlock with these guys in this situation to some extent some extent
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Do we "always" make good signings?

I'd have to say no, particularly with our three most recent deals handed out.

Yes, they tried to get that "home town deal" and it blew up in their faces. None of these guys cared or were intimidated by the Cowboys luster or the Joneses bluster. And now Junior will either pay top market rates, or lose the players. He failed.
 
stasheroo said:
Do we "always" make good signings?

I'd have to say no, particularly with our three most recent deals handed out.

Yes, they tried to get that "home town deal" and it blew up in their faces. None of these guys cared or were intimidated by the Cowboys luster or the Joneses bluster. And now Junior will either pay top market rates, or lose the players. He failed.
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I mean the argument if the deal was good enough or not is one thing, but acting like this team constantly loses signing internal pro-bowl FA’s is disingenuous. Before this season, what pro-bowl level player has the team let walk that was a glaring re-sign?
 
817Gill said:
I mean the argument if the deal was good enough or not is one thing, but acting like this team constantly loses signing internal pro-bowl FA’s is disingenuous. Before this season, what pro-bowl level player has the team let walk that was a glaring re-sign?
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I don't recall seeing a post or thread where anyone said "this team is constantly losing internal Pro Bowl FA's". Can you link that here so I see what your argument is about?
 
stasheroo said:
I disagree to some extent.

I think that if the Cowboys had pressed earlier, and at the time offered deals that would then have looked to outsiders like you and me as 'overpaying', they could have closed the deal then. Plenty of teams did just that, nobody's going to tell me the Cowboys couldn't or that only these players and agents were 'smart enough' to know where the market was going.

No, I'll first believe that a known cheapskate son, gifted the job by his Daddy, mishandled things and thought he could strong-arm both into taking his cheap deals. I've read enough and heard enough to support that feeling as well. Other people are free of course to believe whatever they want or feel the need to as well.
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Do you really think all NFL teams start off negotiations with the absolute most they're willing to pay or do they start at some point below that. The team starts off at one point the player's agent starts at a higher point and then they negotiate. That's why it's called negotiations. Also if one side, France, refuses to negotiate it makes it impossible to get a contract worked out. Also if one side, Prescott, says he didn't want to negotiate during the season the other side can't hold a gun to his head and make him. Try to understand that it's not as black and white as you're trying to paint it.
.
 
Bobhaze said:
I might feel better if it the Jones FO had a clear plan in place. It always feels like they are just reacting to what happens instead of making things happen the way they want to build their team.
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I see that opinion and understand if you feel that way 100%. They have always been a reactionary FO but at the same time the rosters we’ve put together recently have been clouded by JG and underwhelming seasons. If we can continue to put together a top 7-10ish roster with a good coaching staff, we are certain to get farther than we’ve been while being more consistent.

But that’s a convo for another thread lol, I just don’t think making it seem like we always lose our top FA’s is accurate. I’ve seen a lot of that sentiment pop up these last 24-48 hours
 
This front office has always been too focused on retaining a large number of "big names" (as reported by ESPN) rather than developing the overall talent of the team.

It's part of why this team has been so prone to having a single injury torpedo everything, too much hype and not enough depth.
 
stasheroo said:
I disagree to some extent.

I think that if the Cowboys had pressed earlier, and at the time offered deals that would then have looked to outsiders like you and me as 'overpaying', they could have closed the deal then. Plenty of teams did just that, nobody's going to tell me the Cowboys couldn't or that only these players and agents were 'smart enough' to know where the market was going.

No, I'll first believe that a known cheapskate son, gifted the job by his Daddy, mishandled things and thought he could strong-arm both into taking his cheap deals. I've read enough and heard enough to support that feeling as well. Other people are free of course to believe whatever they want or feel the need to as well.
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this....all of this
 
Bobhaze said:
I might feel better if it the Jones FO had a clear plan in place. It always feels like they are just reacting to what happens instead of making things happen the way they want to build their team.
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I'm just looking over the Goff extension and deal. One that was being questioned when it was signed just a few months ago. In terms of finances, the Rams have their quarterback signed for the next 5 years and at no point is the cap charge over this year where they're paying $36 million. Los Angeles takes their lumps this year and then has him signed for 5 years with little to no money locked in. Heck, they could cut him after the season with just a $15 million cap hit of things really went badly.

Anyone think we're now going to get a deal like that with Prescott? Anyone? Anyone?

Nope, Junior waited and ended up screwing us.
 
An above market deal for Dak after the 2018 season would be a comical bargain by 2020 standards.

Instead we're tagging him in 2020 and maybe punting until sometimes after Patrick Mahomes is paid the GDP of Lichtenstein.
 
stasheroo said:
I don't recall seeing a post or thread where anyone said "this team is constantly losing internal Pro Bowl FA's". Can you link that here so I see what your argument is about?
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Not gonna go through and quote people’s posts or anything but I’ve gotten the sense that some posters feel like the situation with Dak/Coop’s contracts is business as usual, when business as usual would be signing them as the FO usually does. Whether the deals are good or not is to be seen, but it’s too early to freak out, especially with the teams history of signing it’s top guys.

These negotiating circumstances are also super unique, the extreme hardball plus CBA isn’t an easy thing to figure out. Especially when you have enigmatic players like Dak and Coop. Neither are a homerun for a blank check yet both are too good to let walk.
 
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