Putting all the Blame on the Front Office is Disingenuous

A lot of blame has been thrown at Garrett and the previous coaching staff, but I think we gonna see the truth about Stephen Jones and his crew.

Stay tuned, this FA/draft period will let us know some truth. But, 25 years of hot garage already speaks volumes.
 
Number 3 I’ll give you. But the premise of my post is Dak and Coops agent seemed more than happy if not set on waiting till a number of expiring players were signed and/or CBA was decided on. The Cowboys couldn’t make deals 1&2 if the representatives wanted to exercise that leverage. Did the boys mess some things up? Most definitely, but there was an element of hardball and CBA that the agents used to their obvious advantage
Had they done it when I said, over a year earlier for Cooper, and 7 months for Dak, their agents would have far less leverage. Both should have been extended before the 2019 season began.
 
I disagree to some extent.

I think that if the Cowboys had pressed earlier, and at the time offered deals that would then have looked to outsiders like you and me as 'overpaying', they could have closed the deal then. Plenty of teams did just that, nobody's going to tell me the Cowboys couldn't or that only these players and agents were 'smart enough' to know where the market was going.

No, I'll first believe that a known cheapskate son, gifted the job by his Daddy, mishandled things and thought he could strong-arm both into taking his cheap deals. I've read enough and heard enough to support that feeling as well. Other people are free of course to believe whatever they want or feel the need to as well.

I think you do not really see how this works with the Jones.

Stephen is his father's son. He has grown up seeing his father go thru good and bad times.

Stephen has greatly benefitted from his father's work. Stephen is respected around the NFL.

He wears alot of hats for his father. He has developed a rep as a tough but fair corporate financial officer of the team.

It's obvious he tries to keep the chips on his side of the table. Any successful business person has these type of people in their organizations.

He has a style of waiting and letting time increase the urgency to get more leverage. These are time worn traditions in negotiations.

To dislike Stephen becuz he is doing his job is just making it clear you do not understand what is required and you need to brush up on your business acumen.

And it's not just you, I am not being personal or attacking you. Many fans are not aware of this stuff. And as a fan, I tend to not get too deep with wanting to understand it becuz it takes away from my fantasies about my team and fav sport to follow.

Guilty as charged
 
Had they done it when I said, over a year earlier for Cooper, and 7 months for Dak, their agents would have far less leverage. Both should have been extended before the 2019 season began.
We have no idea if their agents were open for that but I do get the premise
 
I think you do not really see how this works with the Jones.

Stephen is his father's son. He has grown up seeing his father go thru good and bad times.

Stephen has greatly benefitted from his father's work. Stephen is respected around the NFL.

He wears alot of hats for his father. He has developed a rep as a tough but fair corporate financial officer of the team.

It's obvious he tries to keep the chips on his side of the table. Any successful business person has these type of people in their organizations.

He has a style of waiting and letting time increase the urgency to get more leverage. These are time worn traditions in negotiations.

To dislike Stephen becuz he is doing his job is just making it clear you do not understand what is required and you need to brush up on your business acumen.

And it's not just you, I am not being personal or attacking you. Many fans are not aware of this stuff. And as a fan, I tend to not get too deep with wanting to understand it becuz it takes away from my fantasies about my team and fav sport to follow.

Guilty as charged

Remind me of this post when Stephen's wonderful negotiating skills result in he and the Cowboys paying more, not less to Dak than either Wentz or Goff got months ago.

Remind me when Amari Cooper now makes $20 million a year when we wouldn't pay him $17 million last year.

Your post is all kinds of wrong.
 
We have no idea if their agents were open for that but I do get the premise

You offer more than the going rate at the time, that opens things up. Just like it did for those other 2016 quarterbacks. Just like it did for Michael Thomas and Julio Jones, significantly better players.

Stephen once again tried to go cheap and now he and the Cowboys will pay for it.
 
@Sydla @stasheroo @CATCH17 @Bobhaze

I see y’all saying we do this all the time and I get where you are coming from, but we literally always sign our pro-bowl caliber guys. This would literally be the only year we let pro bowl talent walk. We signed Zeke, signed DLaw, we signed Zach Martin a few years back, Dez as well when he was up.

The team does use the “deadlines make deals” mantra but it always felt like they started negotiations at a reasonable time and tried to get the home town deal. Then as they pushed towards the deadline would give ground, only to agree to whatever was on the table at the 11th hour. To me it seems as Coop/Daks agents made it impossible to have good faith negotiations early, adding to that the status of the CBA you get some of the most unique and difficult negotiating parameters I’ve ever seen.

I think most teams would be in a position of gridlock with these guys in this situation to some extent

D Law played on the franchise tag one year and then delayed signing a second tag. Dez held out signing the tag as well. Zeke held out till almost week one of the season. So three of the four players you named had to hold out to get their money.
 
It is completely fair and here is why:
1. Trade for Cooper, but don't lock him up with an extension.
2. Dak is a 3 year starter with 32 wins, 2 division titles, and was making less than 700K. He should have gotten an extension BEFORE he entered the final year. Had they done so the mark would have been Jimmy G and not Wentz and Goff. Do it then and you don't have their contracts and a 4900 yard 30 TD season to add to the mix, on top of #3.
3. Letting Zeke get his way with 2 years left on his deal by holding out. That sent a clear message to agents everywhere that hardball get you more cash with the Jones'.

I would argue all three of those IMO -

1 - Cooper's salary last year was 13.9 Million, he had the second highest salary among WRs last year and was 9th in Cap Hit. He wasn't asking for a new contract, he was saying he would wait till after the season, which was the smart move for him.

2 - Generally agree but he had an off year in 2018 so his agent would have been smart to wait. Reportedly his agent moved the goalposts this year when he started so hot out of the gate but we don't really know that.

Also we do know that Dak had an insurance policy that paid him 50 Million in case of injury, he wasn't in the same situation some third year players were.

3 - Zeke's deal is actually team friendly. It sounds like a ton at 90MM but only 50 is guaranteed. His signing bonus was only 7.5 Million. Gurley got a signing bonus of 21 million on his extension and Gurley's rookie signing bonus of 8.3 Million was actually higher than Zeke's on his extension.

Also you never got the sense that the holdout was acrimonious, RBs don't really need training camp and to me the whole thing looked like a handshake deal to let Zeke skip Oxnard and the deal would get done at the end of camp like everyone expected.
 
Remind me of this post when Stephen's wonderful negotiating skills result in he and the Cowboys paying more, not less to Dak than either Wentz or Goff got months ago.

Remind me when Amari Cooper now makes $20 million a year when we wouldn't pay him $17 million last year.

Your post is all kinds of wrong.
Not really.

We are talking those added amounts over 4-5 years..not just one season.

So that will be how we look at it but I am not paying the bills.

I am not sure how teams or the agents effectively present those monies onto their negotiations.

It's got to be tricky.

So yeah..it could go higher.

But not sure its anybodies fault.

Just the way it is I think.

No?
 
I disagree to some extent.

I think that if the Cowboys had pressed earlier, and at the time offered deals that would then have looked to outsiders like you and me as 'overpaying', they could have closed the deal then. Plenty of teams did just that, nobody's going to tell me the Cowboys couldn't or that only these players and agents were 'smart enough' to know where the market was going.

No, I'll first believe that a known cheapskate son, gifted the job by his Daddy, mishandled things and thought he could strong-arm both into taking his cheap deals. I've read enough and heard enough to support that feeling as well. Other people are free of course to believe whatever they want or feel the need to as well.
This.

It's not incumbent on the player or the agent to lap up the weak sauce you put out for them. If you're nibbling around the edges and it's not happening, that means you have to bowl them over.

When there is looming leverage advantages and benefits for the player and you want them to forego that leverage and forego that crack at the open market, you have to boldly bowl them over to buy that leverage away from them. To say the players were dead set against signing away that leverage is to say that no number exists at which they'd have signed. And that's just hilariously dumb. Of course the number exists. We just didn't want to go there.

Instead, we patiently wanted to wait, wait, wait. And it's obvious why. Jerry was betting against them. And the players pick up on that.

Jerry can jibber-jabber and say as many positive things as he wants (as a marketer or a salesman selling his product, the team and players, to his consumers). But no matter what positive things he said about how much we believe in the players, he fundamentally believed the next step in the process would be the players not playing that well and him being able to sign them cheaper once they struggled and the leverage swung in his favor.

If you could take Jerry into a room the night before the Amari trade, and show him film and stats of Amari in our offense in 2018 and 2019, guess what. He'd have burst out of the room and made the trade and immediately signed Amari to a new deal. He'd have bowled him over with an offer rich enough to buy away that crack at free agency. And it would be considerably less than it costs to sign him today.

Same deal with Dak. If you could take Jerry into a room the first day we were allowed to extend him, and you could magically show him film and stats of how the passing offense would look in 2019, he'd have burst out of that room and immediately put together an offer that bowled over Dak and bought away the leverage they knew was looming. And it would have been a considerably smaller contract than it takes to sign him today.

I'm not blaming Jerry for not magically knowing the future.

But I'm saying he could have bet on the players and offered enough to bowl them over and buy the leverage or the free agency shot away from them, if he wanted to. A number exists that would have gotten them to sign earlier, and that number is less than either of them will cost to sign today. That number was available to us if Jerry wanted to go there. But he didn't want to. He wanted them to prove it more first, because he was betting they'd fail enough to lose their leverage.
 
Coop and Dak’s agents both wanted to wait until the CBA and other comparable contracts were signed. In Coopers case, he was signed to an agency with 2 agents repping him. The agency split and Coop had to take some time to decide which of the two would represent him. In Daks case we all know who Todd France is and what Dak was doing when he made that switch. Byron IMO was never a serious candidate for a long term top of the market deal.

We see stories about the team not being in contact but the reports and quotes from Amari and Daks negotiations illustrate that the players representation wants to exercise all possible leverage. More power to them but it takes 2 to negotiate. I know we think the FO is run by idiots but they literally have no incentive at all to wait till the last second to initiate communication. Deadlines make deals when you negotiate; not when the other party isn’t willing to talk at all.
its not like the Team FO didnt try they offered fair deals, the bs feedback by fans claiming somehow they LET this happen and the players ridiculous demands had nothing to do worth it..

to me its on the players...top 5 deals to both Dak 105 million guarantees make him a comfortable millionaire..yet somehow thats ludicrous and insulting offer? whatever..they simply are at an impasse with dak and coop and the FO is not to blame..theres a hard cap and they shouldn't go higher on these deals..IMO
 
If you're nibbling around the edges and it's not happening, that means you have to bowl them over.

How is that working out for Daniel Snyder?

These negotiations aren't easy and they almost always get done right at the deadline. We don't have any real insight into the negotiations with Amari Cooper but from all indications Dak's agent was the one with unrealistic expectations. He wasn't getting lowballed, it was France asking for something out of line with the market. That's his job and he got it for Tannehill, but that doesn't mean Dallas should do it.
 
Not really.

We are talking those added amounts over 4-5 years..not just one season.

So that will be how we look at it but I am not paying the bills.

I am not sure how teams or the agents effectively present those monies onto their negotiations.

It's got to be tricky.

So yeah..it could go higher.

But not sure its anybodies fault.

Just the way it is I think.

No?

No.
 
Coop and Dak’s agents both wanted to wait until the CBA and other comparable contracts were signed. In Coopers case, he was signed to an agency with 2 agents repping him. The agency split and Coop had to take some time to decide which of the two would represent him. In Daks case we all know who Todd France is and what Dak was doing when he made that switch. Byron IMO was never a serious candidate for a long term top of the market deal.

We see stories about the team not being in contact but the reports and quotes from Amari and Daks negotiations illustrate that the players representation wants to exercise all possible leverage. More power to them but it takes 2 to negotiate. I know we think the FO is run by idiots but they literally have no incentive at all to wait till the last second to initiate communication. Deadlines make deals when you negotiate; not when the other party isn’t willing to talk at all.
If you can’t make a deal with the players and agents then trade them before you lose them. I realize that we can tag one but let’s just move on. Get on the phone with Miami!
 
D Law played on the franchise tag one year and then delayed signing a second tag. Dez held out signing the tag as well. Zeke held out till almost week one of the season. So three of the four players you named had to hold out to get their money.

Yes. Since Stephen has been in charge of the purse strings.

And you can argue that all we’re ultimately overpaid when deals were done.
 
Do we "always" make good signings?

I'd have to say no, particularly with our three most recent deals handed out.

Yes, they tried to get that "home town deal" and it blew up in their faces. None of these guys cared or were intimidated by the Cowboys luster or the Joneses bluster. And now Junior will either pay top market rates, or lose the players. He failed.
No other way to put, IMO.

:hammer::clap::bow:
 
I mean the argument if the deal was good enough or not is one thing, but acting like this team constantly loses signing internal pro-bowl FA’s is disingenuous. Before this season, what pro-bowl level player has the team let walk that was a glaring re-sign?
Demarco Murray, Demarcus Ware
 
Where I think the FO fails is with their reluctance to move on from their stars in timely fashion so as to get something substantial for them (see 49ers with Buckner). It inevitably leads to overpaying of some and losing others with no comparable compensation.

The Cowboys are pretty damn good at picking the stars, but having 3 of the 5 top FAs in a given year screams of holding on too long and a lack of succession planning. There has to be an exit strategy for every player on the roster. The Hoodie knows.
 

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