How often does a legal reclamation player work out?

[Stash]

Well....serious question- which players did I leave out that had legal problems and worked out here?

Serious question, why does it have to be limited to "legal problems". I can answer that question if you can't or won't.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

History shows players with legal problems in their recent background have a less than 10% chance they will play well or for very long. So it’s extremely doubtful.

Made up stats are fun!

 

[Aviano90]

He even went on to say it is basically impossible to get better playing in Dallas.

Hardy did too.

"Being in no man’s land leaves you without somebody having my back,” Hardy told The MMQB. “Having the Dallas Cowboys was like having the biggest bully in the world have your back. It said, Greg’s okay, give him a chance, he’s a Cowboy. That launched me into a party phase. I got away from reality.”

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Uh. Not in Dallas.

He even went on to say it is basically impossible to get better playing in Dallas.

Link?

 

[Future]

You can't even compare players of this era to anyone before, like, 2005, because of how suspensions work now.

The entirety of the 90s Cowboys would have been suspended lol

 

[Ranching]

History shows players with legal problems in their recent background have a less than 10% chance they will play well or for very long. So it’s extremely doubtful.

10% is better than most players that try out for the NFL.

 

[jterrell]

I know. It's very clear that you've gone to great lengths to be selective in your personal criteria for this list, eliminating troubled players that did have success. It hasn't gone unnoticed.

Like I said, just cut to the chase and say you're not a fan of the team signing Aldon Smith. That's at least honest.

Yup. This was an agenda post to the Nth degree.

Randy Moss was a legal reclamation that worked out OK for Minny then NE.
Charles Haley did pretty well here.
Erik Williams had a pretty major legal issue but had no such issue dominating DEs.

Like you say we can all tweak criterion to fit narratives if we try hard enough.

 

[Bobhaze]

Yup. This was an agenda post to the Nth degree.

Randy Moss was a legal reclamation that worked out OK for Minny then NE.
Charles Haley did pretty well here.
Erik Williams had a pretty major legal issue but had no such issue dominating DEs.

Like you say we can all tweak criterion to fit narratives if we try hard enough.

Charles Haley was not a legal reclamation project. He was never suspended by the league.

 

[jterrell]

Charles Haley was not a legal reclamation project. He was never suspended by the league.

He was suspended by his team.

Good effort, good game.

 

[darthseinfeld]

pacman had an alcohol problem, got sober, and went on to play at a high level for many years. he is the best analog.

I always thought it was a mistake to get rid of him after 2008 tbh. The problem with that team was diva's and entitlement.

A Pac Man type can be good for a team. They cant all be choir boys

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Spellman and Underwood are a bit questionable to include. Both were Bipolar, weren't they? They had legal troubles, but they also had other issues that likely contributed more to their downfall.

Both had psychotic breaks that led to their legal problems. Both ended up as serviceable once they took their meds.

 

[Stash]

Yup. This was an agenda post to the Nth degree.

Randy Moss was a legal reclamation that worked out OK for Minny then NE.
Charles Haley did pretty well here.
Erik Williams had a pretty major legal issue but had no such issue dominating DEs.

Like you say we can all tweak criterion to fit narratives if we try hard enough.

How about Michael Irvin? Were these same people clamoring to 'cut him!' Back then?

What about Zeke? Has anyone remained steadfast in their position that they don't want him on the team either?

This is agenda all the way, and nobody's fooled.

Like I said, just be honest and say you're against the signing. That honesty I can respect. This stuff I cannot.

 

[jterrell]

Brandon Marshall
Randy Moss
Dez
Von Miller
Ray Lewis
Adrian Peterson
Aqib Talib
Santonio Holmes
Matt Prater

There is a massive list of guys who have had legal issues.

If the issue was caused by bi-polar then later success depend son taking proper meds for it.
If it was a substance abuse issue than getting help and dealing with that matters.

Injury, age, salary, personal demons, character are all legit reasons why guys are signing cheap make good deals.
It's a risk you are going to take as you try to win games with a salary cap where price per pound matters more than anything else.

If you don't like Aldon Smith it seems the smart thing to do is just shut up about him altogether.
There's a 20-25% chance he never plays a down for Dallas.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Charles Haley was not a legal reclamation project. He was never suspended by the league.

No, he just exposed himself to female reporters, threatened or assaulted anyone who didn't do what he wanted, and commit all manner of vile and degrading deed. But hey he was never held responsible so that is okay in your book.

Harvey Martin used to beat his wife on teh regular. Not legally accountable? Let's put him in the RoH.

 

[Bobhaze]

How about Michael Irvin? Were these same people clamoring to 'cut him!' Back then?

What about Zeke? Has anyone remained steadfast in their position that they don't want him on the team either?

This is agenda all the way, and nobody's fooled.

Like I said, just be honest and say you're against the signing. That honesty I can respect. This stuff I cannot.

Well, I thought I had already been very honest about that, lol. I’ve never hid that I’m against the Aldon Smith signing.

 

[Bobhaze]

You can't even compare players of this era to anyone before, like, 2005, because of how suspensions work now.

The entirety of the 90s Cowboys would have been suspended lol

That’s a fair point, lol.

 

[kskboys]

Looking at the history of the Dallas Cowboys under Jerry Jones, there have been more than a few times Jerry rolled the dice on a player who had major legal problems that caused them to either be suspended or even sit out a year (or more) from the NFL.

Before getting into the names of past examples, let’s take Charles Haley And TO off this list. Sure Haley was “troubled” and considered a pain to work with. But he was never banned from the league for an arrest for off field behavior. He was obtained in a trade from the niners in ‘92, and despite being difficult in the locker room at times was a huge reason the Cowboys won those SBs in the 90s. But never compare Charles Haley’s situation or behavior to someone like Aldon Smith.

And Terrell Owens? Sure he eventually became a locker room cancer, but he was not a guy getting arrested and suspended from the league like the guys we’re about to list. Haley and TO we’re difficult but they weren’t guys with a long rap sheet.

So now we can talk about the guys this organization has taken in as “Reclamation projects”. Players who have had major legal or substance problems causing them to miss games due to suspension- some even for a full season or more. Here are some of the names I could remember:

• Ryan Leaf-
• Tank Johnson
• Alonzo Spellman
• Dimitrius Underwood

• PacMan Jones-
• Josh Brent-
• Rolondo McLain
• David Irving-
  
• Randy Gregory- I actually like this kid and think he still has a chance. He’s tested positive for weed several times but no arrests for DV or other things besides weed.
  
• Greg Hardy
• Aldon Smith- at least 6 arrests including domestic violence, making a terroristic threat at LAX, and multiple DWIs.

I’m sure I’ve forgotten some names. How many of these guys were “worth it” and made major contributions to our success, especially in the playoffs? You could possibly argue that Irving and Ro McClain were contributors, but they were so unreliable, you couldn’t count on them being there for long stretches.

So out of that list...maybe two guys...occasionally helped us win. Please don’t say I’m saying we only need “choir boys”. Of course we have and will always have some troubled players. But isn’t there at least some line that can’t be crossed?

Tell me again why this organization keeps doing this stuff? It can’t be because it has worked so well in the past.

My best guess:

Jerry knows people keep saying he is not a football guy, and shouldn't be GM. So, he tries this crapp in a desperate pathetic attempt to impress the football world. In the meanwhile, he's so unaware that he doesn't even realize these moves do the exact opposite, making him look like an extreme buffoon.

We've seen many times in the past how he gets excited over some talent that dropped, or someone who is available who is very good, not even stopping to consider why they were available.

IMO, it's this inability to evaluate players that keeps sabotaging us.

 

[kskboys]

Well....serious question- which players did I leave out that had legal problems and worked out here?

Legal problems were mostly swept under the rug back than. Hollywood leads the list, but there were many back then. Problems at home were kept at home and shushed if they came out.

 

[Stash]

Well, I thought I had already been very honest about that, lol. I’ve never hid that I’m against the Aldon Smith signing.

Then that's all that you need to say. This dog and pony show of a thread is off-the-mark and completely unnecessary.

 

[Bobhaze]

Then that's all that you need to say. This dog and pony show of a thread is off-the-mark and completely unnecessary.

Don’t hold back Stas....tell me what you really think.