Zeke cannot do what Pollard does

[RonnieT24]

I never got why we don't run Zeke out of wide formations instead bringing the extra TEs in to clutter it all up. Both would be nice, etc.

Actually it's the other way around.. We run Zeke out of shotgun spread TOO much. It has been over 40% of his carries coming into yesterday's game. The reason it doesn't work is simple.. When he's in the game the defense doesn't believe you're going to do anything EXCEPT give him the ball. So they all run to him the minute the ball is snapped. When Pollard's in the game and we go spread the defense is thinking pass and playing pass. When we give it to him in those formations the defense is far less likely to be run blitzing, affording him more opportunity to get to the second level untouched. I mean the TD he went untouched.. Not one defender even got a finger on him. The one guy who could have apparently had a brain freeze and stood flat footed as Pollard ran by. The problem with bringing in all those TEs is that none of them is really any great shakes at blocking. In fact they kinda suck at it. So all bringing them in does is clog things up. They often completely whiff on their man forcing Zeke to beat a man the second he takes the handoff. I think our most successful runs come out of one TE sets.. We also don't have "great" blockers at receiver either. Lamb did a good job on Pollard's run but generally our receivers let the guy go too soon and their man makes the tackle ..

 

[Praxit]

..best way to put it. If Moore can utilize their strengths, Dallas might have a top notch combo attack.

 

[BigStar]

Actually it's the other way around.. We run Zeke out of shotgun spread TOO much. It has been over 40% of his carries coming into yesterday's game. The reason it doesn't work is simple.. When he's in the game the defense doesn't believe you're going to do anything EXCEPT give him the ball. So they all run to him the minute the ball is snapped. When Pollard's in the game and we go spread the defense is thinking pass and playing pass. When we give it to him in those formations the defense is far less likely to be run blitzing, affording him more opportunity to get to the second level untouched. I mean the TD he went untouched.. Not one defender even got a finger on him. The one guy who could have apparently had a brain freeze and stood flat footed as Pollard ran by. The problem with bringing in all those TEs is that none of them is really any great shakes at blocking. In fact they kinda suck at it. So all bringing them in does is clog things up. They often completely whiff on their man forcing Zeke to beat a man the second he takes the handoff. I think our most successful runs come out of one TE sets.. We also don't have "great" blockers at receiver either. Lamb did a good job on Pollard's run but generally our receivers let the guy go too soon and their man makes the tackle ..

If that's from the RPO/shotgun I agree, I never really liked that run for a HB like Zeke...it doesn't let you build any momentum and is more for shifty backs seemingly. I guess I was thinking more of the 4/3 wide singleback more so, etc. It "feels" like a lot of the good runs from Zeke come out of single back vs shotgun but that could be in my head. Does it show which formation he has the most success?

 

[kskboys]

Actually it's the other way around.. We run Zeke out of shotgun spread TOO much. It has been over 40% of his carries coming into yesterday's game. The reason it doesn't work is simple.. When he's in the game the defense doesn't believe you're going to do anything EXCEPT give him the ball. So they all run to him the minute the ball is snapped. When Pollard's in the game and we go spread the defense is thinking pass and playing pass. When we give it to him in those formations the defense is far less likely to be run blitzing, affording him more opportunity to get to the second level untouched. I mean the TD he went untouched.. Not one defender even got a finger on him. The one guy who could have apparently had a brain freeze and stood flat footed as Pollard ran by. The problem with bringing in all those TEs is that none of them is really any great shakes at blocking. In fact they kinda suck at it. So all bringing them in does is clog things up. They often completely whiff on their man forcing Zeke to beat a man the second he takes the handoff. I think our most successful runs come out of one TE sets.. We also don't have "great" blockers at receiver either. Lamb did a good job on Pollard's run but generally our receivers let the guy go too soon and their man makes the tackle ..

As usual, I looooooooove when you break it down for me. Great stuff.

 

[Idgit]

People scream for Pollard because he’s a much better value at this point in their careers.

 

[Mikejj24]

I disagree.. I think if you stood Zeke on the sideline for 90% of the snaps and let him come in after the other guy has beaten on the defense he would be nice and explosive too and his ypc average would be off the charts. The question is whether Pollard could soften the defense up the way Zeke does? But seriously.. if people can't see that it's the one-two punch that makes it work by now they aren't ever going to. This same noise has been going on since Michael Wiley or Sherman Williams had a nice run or two backing up Emmitt. It's never going to stop.. We can't help them.. as good Christians we can only pray for them! LOL!

I agree it's all about the 1-2 punch. The two work in tandem. I disagree that either one could do what the other does nearly as well. Pollard is not durable / strong enough to take punishment down after down, and Zeke is not quick and fast enough anymore to take it to the house from 45 yards. If Zeke could take it to the house from 45 yards out, by all means lets see it. That does not mean he is not a great back and key contributor to the team, and pollard to some degree as well.

 

[Aviano90]

Henry can get tough yards and break away for the big play, as demonstrated yesterday in OT. Zeke was supposed to be that guy, but isn’t.

 

[Mikejj24]

Actually it's the other way around.. We run Zeke out of shotgun spread TOO much. It has been over 40% of his carries coming into yesterday's game. The reason it doesn't work is simple.. When he's in the game the defense doesn't believe you're going to do anything EXCEPT give him the ball. So they all run to him the minute the ball is snapped. When Pollard's in the game and we go spread the defense is thinking pass and playing pass. When we give it to him in those formations the defense is far less likely to be run blitzing, affording him more opportunity to get to the second level untouched. I mean the TD he went untouched.. Not one defender even got a finger on him. The one guy who could have apparently had a brain freeze and stood flat footed as Pollard ran by. The problem with bringing in all those TEs is that none of them is really any great shakes at blocking. In fact they kinda suck at it. So all bringing them in does is clog things up. They often completely whiff on their man forcing Zeke to beat a man the second he takes the handoff. I think our most successful runs come out of one TE sets.. We also don't have "great" blockers at receiver either. Lamb did a good job on Pollard's run but generally our receivers let the guy go too soon and their man makes the tackle ..

I agree pretty much with all of that. Same exact scenario somehow on that Pollard run, Zeke would have been caught before he hit pay dirt IMO. He might have run for 20 or 30 which would be great right? but not fast enough to go the distance.

 

[G2]

I never got why we don't run Zeke out of wide formations instead bringing the extra TEs in to clutter it all up. Both would be nice, etc.

If you noticed, they have the last couple of games. I think they don't spread Elliott wide as much because he's simply not a better WR option, but I do get the decoy aspect of the idea. But the extra TE formations, in my opinion, clearly illustrate we're most likely going to run Elliott if he's in the backfield. I would give a different look. Sometimes they'll bring a WR or TE in motion just to see what the defense is bringing. The problem I have seen is that if the defense is playing man to man, it bring an extra defender right where you are running.

 

[RonnieT24]

If that's from the RPO/shotgun I agree, I never really liked that run for a HB like Zeke...it doesn't let you build any momentum and is more for shifty backs seemingly. I guess I was thinking more of the 4/3 wide singleback more so, etc. It "feels" like a lot of the good runs from Zeke come out of single back vs shotgun but that could be in my head. Does it show which formation he has the most success?

Pro-football-reference does provide splits by QB alignment in the advanced rushing stats section. This year is weird because Zeke has 55 carries for 214 yards out of shotgun and then 116 carries for 461 under center. 3.9 out of shotgun and 4.0 under center. In past years the difference has been much more pronounced. Like almost a yard difference under center vs shotgun. Ironically even Pollard has been better under center this year than shotgun.. He has averaged 5.3 on 32 carries under center and 4.8 from 20 carries from shotgun.. But that's kinda deceptive since nearly 25% of his 171 yards came on the one carry yesterday. Before that play Pollard had 31 carries for 129 yards from under center. 4.16 ypc. But he has such a small sample size it's difficult to draw a ton of conclusions from it. ESPN also breaks it down by number of wide receivers and TEs as well in their splits section. Only they don't offer the breakdown by hole like they used to . The main thing to notice is the hole where the plays hit. Zeke is asked to do far more of his work between the tackles. They can't do that with Pollard.. not if they want him to finish the season.

 

[quickccc]

And Pollard cannot do what Zeke does.

Zeke is a very good chain moving pile driving RB. He gets the tough yards between the tackles. Often gets yards when there's nowhere to go.

Pollard is an explosive 3rd down back. He explodes through the hole and makes big plays.

This is one of the best combos in the NFL. Zeke takes the majority of the carries and softens 'em up, Pollard takes the top off.

Why is it whenever Pollard has a longer run people start screaming that he should get all the carries? It's just silly. How do you not see that it's the combo that's awesome?

while i also believe pollard if given the chance could be a chain mover himself, he could be- he just won't be on the level of zeke in that area.
only problem is now zeke seems exclusively a bell cow nowadays. also zeke is more reliable as a blitz blocker,
..
Pollard is not being used on 3rd down, so how is a 3rd down back ? that's usually goes used in pass game - and we still haven't used him in that
area much at all. but if zeke is subbed, pollard has the instincts, lower body power and in-out hole and pullaway burst to be a factor.

Always had that ability. i do think Martin at OT rather than Steele had a big factor on the edge for Pollard to run thru en route to his long TD.

Kellen flexing zeke out to a bubble screen to catch and roll it in for a TD was an improved change. i've much criticized Moore for not utilizing his backs
in the pass game. But Kellen script up a good one that was effective this time
............

 

[BigStar]

Pro-football-reference does provide splits by QB alignment in the advanced rushing stats section. This year is weird because Zeke has 55 carries for 214 yards out of shotgun and then 116 carries for 461 under center. 3.9 out of shotgun and 4.0 under center. In past years the difference has been much more pronounced. Like almost a yard difference under center vs shotgun. Ironically even Pollard has been better under center this year than shotgun.. He has averaged 5.3 on 32 carries under center and 4.8 from 20 carries from shotgun.. But that's kinda deceptive since nearly 25% of his 171 yards came on the one carry yesterday. Before that play Pollard had 31 carries for 129 yards from under center. 4.16 ypc. But he has such a small sample size it's difficult to draw a ton of conclusions from it. ESPN also breaks it down by number of wide receivers and TEs as well in their splits section. Only they don't offer the breakdown by hole like they used to . The main thing to notice is the hole where the plays hit. Zeke is asked to do far more of his work between the tackles. They can't do that with Pollard.. not if they want him to finish the season.

You have a good mind for this, and appreciate you breaking it down. Should have your own show tbh. I also thought it would've been a starker contrast for Zeke out of shotgun, even this year. So I was wrong on the SB being a "better" formation, for this season anyway. Great stuff man, appr the info!

 

[RonnieT24]

I agree pretty much with all of that. Same exact scenario somehow on that Pollard run, Zeke would have been caught before he hit pay dirt IMO. He might have run for 20 or 30 which would be great right? but not fast enough to go the distance.

I disagree.. if Zeke gets to the second level untouched like that he's gone. Zeke may take longer to get to top speed than Pollard does.. but I still contend that when he gets there he's faster than Pollard.. My contention is that the defense never relaxes like that when Zeke has the ball. When we fake the handoff the Zeke he gets tackled anyway.. Sometimes by two guys.. The fake to Pollard doesn't get nearly the same attention. Likewise DBs don't stand around and watch Zeke run by them like Jones did with Pollard. Coaches have been screaming at their guys all week that "we need to get a bunch of guys to the ball to get this guy to the ground..." Guarantee you they haven't spent 10 minutes talking about how to stop Pollard.

 

[quickccc]

Same reason Zeke gets to the LOS much better than Henry. Zeke is better getting going, Henry is better once he gets going. Henry is a big play RB, Zeke is a grinder.

which is why we don't draft RBs with 4th overall or re-sign them as the highest paid back at that time just to make them grinders.
We could've kept DeMarco Murray if we were content with being serviceable grinders.

 

[RonnieT24]

I disagree.. if Zeke gets to the second level untouched like that he's gone. Zeke may take longer to get to top speed than Pollard does.. but I still contend that when he gets there he's faster than Pollard.. My contention is that the defense never relaxes like that when Zeke has the ball. When we fake the handoff the Zeke he gets tackled anyway.. Sometimes by two guys.. The fake to Pollard doesn't get nearly the same attention. Likewise DBs don't stand around and watch Zeke run by them like Jones did with Pollard. Coaches have been screaming at their guys all week that "we need to get a bunch of guys to the ball to get this guy to the ground..." Guarantee you they haven't spent 10 minutes talking about how to stop Pollard.

Addendum.. this may change as the season wears on and Pollard keeps turning in big plays. Earlier in the season he was actually averaging the same ypc as Zeke or even less. Now that he has started to show up with big plays teams are going to start paying more attention to him. Which ironically is going help Zeke because every minute of film the coaches spend studying Pollard is a minute they are NOT studying him.

 

[America's Cowboy]

 

[RonnieT24]

which is why we don't draft RBs with 4th overall or re-sign them as the highest paid back at that time just to make them grinders.
We could've kept DeMarco Murray if we were content with being serviceable grinders.

Well Murray retired like 2 years ago and he had worn down pretty significantly by then as well. His heart was no longer in the game.. and he was never the most durable player to begin with.

 

[VABoyz]

NEITHER one can be effective without the OLINE playing better. thats the most crucial thing. havent seen either one getting hit behind the line as much in recent games. holes are opening more.

 

[RonnieT24]

NEITHER one can be effective without the OLINE playing better. thats the most crucial thing. havent seen either one getting hit behind the line as much in recent games. holes are opening more.

Oh they got hit in the backfield plenty against Pittsburgh. But the line held up much better yesterday. We only gave up two TFLs yesterday. It was 7 against the Steelers.

 

[quickccc]

Well Murray retired like 2 years ago and he had worn down pretty significantly by then as well. His heart was no longer in the game.. and he was never the most durable player to begin with.

Cowboys noted what Murray was, ..they knew he was serviceable -despite still holding Cowboys single season rushing record
they wanted significantly more than a grinder. They coveted a back more special than that. than more than just a grinder.
Zeke was a big play back coming out of Ohio st. - he was a breakwaway threat.

those 15 yrd runs would have been 40+ or long TDs if 2016 zeke version was still presence.

Zeke still can be a an agry power runner - but he's not near as fast and explosive 2nd level or in-hole acceleration as Pollard is.