Ever had a player like Zeke?

[Kingofholland]

And we're all sure Elliott stinks and isn't having an off year with the rest of the team?

 

[bigE79]

The delusional Dak haters should be joining in any minute now.

They don't hate Dak,they hate the fans making him out to be perfect and can do no wrong..there was only one of those,and Dak ain't him.. sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Praxit]

......

.........nope, Zeke is quite special. ..

 

[JoeKing]

This sport is named wrong. "Football" is inappropriate. With a player like Zeke, it's never clearer that this sport is "Actionball". Zeke is a dangerous weapon when used correctly. He can catch and run or he can just run or he can block. The point is Zeke is a versatile player that is constantly used incorrectly by this coaching staff.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

5.1 yards per carry (rookie season) while handling that kind of workload is not only good, it's outstanding.

Zeke may have fallen off now, but let's not act as if he didn't start his career as a very good player.

I've already said that he was good his rookie season, everything after that has been average.

So your response to my post really doesn't make any sense.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Really good for one year. Never seen a RB fall off so quickly. Truly an anomaly.

@OmerV

 

[OmerV]

I've already said that he was good his rookie season, everything after that has been average.

So your response to my post really doesn't make any sense.

In this post you responded to a guy saying Zeke started his career strong by suggesting that only seemed to be the case because he got so many touches. If you said something different at another point I guess I'll have to apologize for missing it because. I admittedly didn't read the entirety of the thread.

Even so, I would disagree that every season other than his rookie season was average. In 20178 and 201 he average 4.7 & 4.5 yards per carry respectively, and with opposing defenses keying on him, so he was still doing very well, even if not quite up to rookie year standards. Last year was a disappointment though, as is this year.

 

[Proof]

Zeke lead the NFL in rushing 2 out of his 4 years in the league.He also has more yards than any running back in those 4 years.One good season doesn't check out.

by far the most carries

 

[OmerV]

by far the most carries

His per carry averages were strong in 2016, 2018 & 2019, so he was productive with those carries.

He actually only led the NFL in carries in 2016 and 2018.

 

[Proof]

His per carry averages were strong in 2016, 2018 & 2019, so he was productive with those carries.

thanks for the info. How does it factor into what I said though? His averages were fine but not best in the league. He led the league in rushing due to volume

 

[OmerV]

thanks for the info. How does it factor into what I said though? His averages were fine but not best in the league. He led the league in rushing due to volume

It factors in because to be the rushing leader the runs have to be productive, otherwise the yardage doesn't add up enough to come out on top. For example, a runner averaging 4.0 ypc in 2016 would have needed 86 more carries than Zeke had to get the same yardage. And, of course, if the runs aren't productive the team wouldn't keep giving the player the necessary touches anyway.

As for having far and away more carries, Zeke had 23 more carries than the next closest RB in 2016, but had 470 more yards - because the runs were that much more productive.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

In this post you responded to a guy saying Zeke started his career strong by suggesting that only seemed to be the case because he got so many touches. If you said something different at another point I guess I'll have to apologize for missing it because. I admittedly didn't read the entirety of the thread.

Even so, I would disagree that every season other than his rookie season was average. In 20178 and 201 he average 4.7 & 4.5 yards per carry respectively, and with opposing defenses keying on him, so he was still doing very well, even if not quite up to rookie year standards. Last year was a disappointment though, as is this year.

We've now lowered our standards to 4.5 ypc as doing "very well"? Even though he was behind 3 All-pros? Is that what we are doing here?
Just for reference in 2019, for an average running back, behind an average OL, averaged 4.48 yards per carry according footballperspective.com.

So all together we have a season where he averaged 4.1 ypc behind 3 all-pros and good QB, 4.5 ypc behind 3 all-pros and great QB, and now has come crashing down to 3.9 one of the worst in the league amongst bulk carriers because everything around him isn't perfect.
This is for a RB that isn't a strong receiver, having been one of the least efficient receiving backs since entering the league.

Also no data supports teams "keying in to stop him", he's been just about league average actually. So let's not mistate things.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

It factors in because to be the rushing leader the runs have to be productive, otherwise the yardage doesn't add up enough to come out on top. For example, a runner averaging 4.0 ypc in 2016 would have needed 86 more carries than Zeke had to get the same yardage. And, of course, if the runs aren't productive the team wouldn't keep giving the player the necessary touches anyway.

As for having far and away more carries, Zeke had 23 more carries than the next closest RB in 2016, but had 470 more yards - because the runs were that much more productive.

That's not true. Zeke averaged only 4.1 ypc in 2017, which is abysmal, and still lead the league in rushing yards per game.

 

[Proof]

It factors in because to be the rushing leader the runs have to be productive, otherwise the yardage doesn't add up enough to come out on top. For example, a runner averaging 4.0 ypc in 2016 would have needed 86 more carries than Zeke had to get the same yardage. And, of course, if the runs aren't productive the team wouldn't keep giving the player the necessary touches anyway.

Ehh. We don’t really have to dive into it, but for running backs the vast majority of the time it’s he who carries the most wins the title. And zeke has far and away carries the most since entering the league. There’s value in it sure, to an extent but it’s a volume stat through and through. I don’t hate the guy like others, i just haven’t been overly impressed since 2016

 

[Aviano90]

We've now lowered our standards to 4.5 ypc as doing "very well"? Even though he was behind 3 All-pros? Is that what we are doing here?
Just for reference in 2019, for an average running back, behind an average OL, averaged 4.48 yards per carry according footballperspective.com.

So all together we have a season where he averaged 4.1 ypc behind 3 all-pros and good QB, 4.5 ypc behind 3 all-pros and great QB, and now has come crashing down to 3.9 one of the worst in the league amongst bulk carriers because everything around him isn't perfect.
This is for a RB that isn't a strong receiver, having been one of the least efficient receiving backs since entering the league.

Also no data supports teams "keying in to stop him", he's been just about league average actually. So let's not mistate things.

Zeke should be averaging no less than 4.6 ypc. DMC could give us that with no good QB or healthy #1 WR. Apparently that type of running game (along with Randle's 4.1 ypc) is what prompted us to go out and spend the #4 overall pick on a RB. He really needs to be 4.8 or higher but anything less than 4.6 should be totally unacceptable.

 

[OmerV]

Ehh. We don’t really have to dive into it, but for running backs the vast majority of the time it’s he who carries the most wins the title. And zeke has far and away carries the most since entering the league. There’s value in it sure, to an extent but it’s a volume stat through and through. I don’t hate the guy like others, i just haven’t been overly impressed since 2016

And the vast majority of the time the guy that carries it the most is also productive with his carries. In most cases a guy doesn't get that many carries with a poor ypc average.

 

[Typhus]

Has there ever been a player that tricked 90%+ of the forum into thinking he's good, when in fact he was not? Normally when we get a shiny new free agent like Poe or HHCD, then they'll be 10x better according to the forum than they actually are, but Zeke is an endentured player that y'all just continued to ignore his lack of effectiveness.

I mean this offseason the list of positions he held according to y'all included:
Best all around RB in the league
Best player on the team
Top 5 RB in the league

Completely asinine

Old senile drunk billionaire.
Thats all it really is..
We can sit here for years like we have been trying to figure it out, but thats all it really is.

 

[Proof]

And the vast majority of the time the guy that carries it the most is also productive with his carries. In most cases a guy doesn't get that many carries with a poor ypc average.

cool. I see you’re centering in on “productive”. Not especially impressive to me. As stated earlier 4.1 ypc is not much to hang your hat on. But I guess good on you for getting more opportunities to do it? Until you had to under a non all pro line.

 

[OmerV]

cool. I see you’re centering in on “productive”. Not especially impressive to me. As stated earlier 4.1 ypc is not much to hang your hat on. But I guess good on you for getting more opportunities to do it? Until you had to under a non all pro line.

Productive is bad? I wasn't aware. Quality production is what you want from a RB - or any player - is it not?

But 4.5 - 5.1 ypc is impressive, and especially when carrying a big workload. Obviously a player won't be at or near his peak season - if that's your expectation that's not reasonable. But 4.5 - 5.1 ypc is a strong range for any RB to be in, and, again, especially with a big workload.

I agree wholeheartedly that the seasons at 4.1 ypc are not impressive. And especially not this year's 3.9 ypc. In fact, they are very mundane. But I'm not arguing that Zeke has been as strong or consistent as a #4 overall needs to be. I'm just saying it's not accurate to credit him with only one strong season.

I think the problem is some fans tend to only view things in extremes - as if a player is either a star or is weak. Not a reasonable standard. Even the greatest players in history didn't compete with their peak seasons every year. That's not how it works.

But I do agree that at 4.1 ypc Zeke is a disappointment. At 4.5 - 5.1 ypc he is not.

 

[Proof]

Productive is bad? I wasn't aware. Quality production is what you want from a RB - or any player - is it not?

But 4.5 - 5.1 ypc is impressive, and especially when carrying a big workload. Obviously a player won't be at or near his peak season - if that's your expectation that's not reasonable. But 4.5 - 5.1 ypc is a strong range for any RB to be in, and, again, especially with a big workload.

I agree wholeheartedly that the seasons at 4.1 ypc are not impressive. And especially not this year's 3.9 ypc. In fact, they are very mundane. But I'm not arguing that Zeke has been as strong or consistent as a #4 overall needs to be. I'm just saying it's not accurate to credit him with only one strong season.

I think the problem is some fans tend to only view things in extremes - as if a player is either a star or is weak. Not a reasonable standard. Even the greatest players in history didn't compete with their peak seasons every year. That's not how it works.

But I do agree that at 4.1 ypc Zeke is a disappointment. At 4.5 - 5.1 ypc he is not.

you’re preaching to the choir, and arguing things im not. I agree with your reasonable takes 99 pct of the time. So I’m not going to argue.