The New Orleans Saints face a salary-cap crisis in 2021

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The Joneses have struggled to build a winner in the Cap Era. I believe the current cap situation of the Saints should serve as notice to the rest of the league of how kicking contract dollars to future years can become a problem.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-cap-experts-are-unsure-how-theyll-escape-it/

ofcourse it becomes a problem....you are competitive for a period, hand out contracts to key players, manipulate and push money down the road...subsequently, you rebuild, by taking on dead cap money for a couple of years, being bad, getting high draft picks, getting the cap healthy, and start the cycle again. there aren't that many New Englad Patiots like teams in the league, because there is only one Bilicheck.

 

[big dog cowboy]

At best, most presume, the 2021 cap will be $185M; the Saints are currently $81M above that figure according to the league's figures. If the cap is in fact $175M, then New Orleans currently stands $91M above that threshold, obviously a substantial figure.

 

[cern]

despite my warnings about the pie and bean counters, those warnings were ignored by some teams. philly is also in cap hell. there are others. we ae more fortunate than others because stephen, our bean counter, learned from the mistakes of his father in how to screw up the cap. never was this more evident than last season when he tagged dak and walked away from ridiculous demands. as opposed to the philly bean counter who gave the most ridiculous contract ever to an unproven qb. this asinine move put the eagles in cap hell, caused them to fire the best hc they've had in years for trying to do what's best for the team, not to assuage howie's bean counting ego. that's why gm's should count beans, and stay out of hiring coaches and selecting players. thank our lucky stars for stephen.

 

[cern]

That's all fine and good when there is no guaranteed contracts. Those guaranteed contracts mean whether they are on the team or not they get the money and that money goes straight to dead money. Also because of the bonus money already paid and the difference in a years salary and the total amount of bonus money paid that was averaged over the life on the contract is often no or very little real savings, certainly not enough to get them out of cap he11 and not anywhere close to the 75 mil you think it will be. There's a reason teams don't bring in fans to be their GM or capologists.
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many fans believe the cap is done with monopoly money. how often have you seen someone post they could come up with 20-30 million tomorrow if they wanted. how? sell marvin gardens or boardwalk place?

 

[John813]

That's all fine and good when there is no guaranteed contracts. Those guaranteed contracts mean whether they are on the team or not they get the money and that money goes straight to dead money. Also because of the bonus money already paid and the difference in a years salary and the total amount of bonus money paid that was averaged over the life on the contract is often no or very little real savings, certainly not enough to get them out of cap he11 and not anywhere close to the 75 mil you think it will be. There's a reason teams don't bring in fans to be their GM or capologists.
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There's signing bonuses and guaranteed salary, roster bonuses and workout bonuses that are given to players to make up the total guaranteed money.
Teams cut players all the time with prorated bonus money.
Those players already got that money the moment they signed.

So explain to me what contract I've hypothetically cut that doesn't provide any "real savings" in regards to being cap compliant.
Show me where I'm wrong. Think the only name I messed up on was Rankins for actual cap savings, but his contract voids automatically this year on March 17th

 

[TwoCentPlain]

I read somewhere that insiders say the cap is going to be around $180M for 2021. Who knows what it will be for 2022.

Will fans even be allowed to watch the SB in person in Feb.? Will their be fans in attendance in Sept? Who knows? No one can say for sure.

NFL ratings are down and trending down. That gravy train might be coming to an end.

 

[bigE79]

He needs a new nickname, Michael Myers. Every time they think he's dead, there he is again. I've read some think he's not what he used to be but all I've seen is the same accuracy and zip he's always had.

GB want's to get to the SB, those Smith brothers are going to have to work some of the same magic they had to get to the NFCCG last season.

Exactly..I've seen no drop off in accuracy,he can still drop a dime for 60 yards and all the players respect him so much,they don't want to be the one to screw up.

 

[Doomsday101]

Philly is in pretty bad shape themselves

 

[gjkoeppen]

There's signing bonuses and guaranteed salary, roster bonuses and workout bonuses that are given to players to make up the total guaranteed money.
Teams cut players all the time with prorated bonus money.
Those players already got that money the moment they signed.

So explain to me what contract I've hypothetically cut that doesn't provide any "real savings" in regards to being cap compliant.
Show me where I'm wrong. Think the only name I messed up on was Rankins for actual cap savings, but his contract voids automatically this year on March 17th

First off Sheldon Rankins if unsigned and walks away will still add 4 mil in dead money from his fully guiaranted contract that was restructured. Then Taysom Hill's contract in 2020 his signing and 2021 roster bonus and 5.7mil of 2021 salary are guaranteed, so 11 mil goes on as dead money and they only save 5 mil. left from the remainder of his 2021 salary. So that comes out so for every dollar saved, 2 go to dead money. For Janoris Jenkins they release him they save 10 mil in salary but 7 mil goes to dead money so there's only a real savings of 3 mil. So far out of the 75 mil you think would be saved it's really only 8 mil. Emmanuel Sanders would save 6 mil on salary but 4 mil goes to dead money so a real savings of 2 mil. Malcom Brown will be a free agent so there's no savings on him. Nick Easton only has 500K added to the dead money and the save 6 mil. The two players on 5th year options will be tough trades because of what it will cost to resign them after the 5th year is over, not to mention there being a smaller cap for 2021. So your 75 mil in saving is really only 16 mil and then they have to find talent as good as what they lost that is cheaper. Good luck on that. There's a reason fans aren't hired as GM's or capologists and you're a prime reason why.
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[John813]

First off Sheldon Rankins if unsigned and walks away will still add 4 mil in dead money from his fully guiaranted contract that was restructured. Then Taysom Hill's contract in 2020 his signing and 2021 roster bonus and 5.7mil of 2021 salary are guaranteed, so 11 mil goes on as dead money and they only save 5 mil. left from the remainder of his 2021 salary. So that comes out so for every dollar saved, 2 go to dead money. For Janoris Jenkins they release him they save 10 mil in salary but 7 mil goes to dead money so there's only a real savings of 3 mil. So far out of the 75 mil you think would be saved it's really only 8 mil. Emmanuel Sanders would save 6 mil on salary but 4 mil goes to dead money so a real savings of 2 mil. Malcom Brown will be a free agent so there's no savings on him. Nick Easton only has 500K added to the dead money and the save 6 mil. The two players on 5th year options will be tough trades because of what it will cost to resign them after the 5th year is over, not to mention there being a smaller cap for 2021. So your 75 mil in saving is really only 16 mil and then they have to find talent as good as what they lost that is cheaper. Good luck on that. There's a reason fans aren't hired as GM's or capologists and you're a prime reason why.
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First off, this is about the 2021 cap and being cap compliant.

For Janoris Jenkins he has a base salary of 10, prorated bonus hit of 3mil, 1.2mil roster bonus and 1.2mil of guaranteed salary. Therefore his cap hit is 14.2mil(base+roster bonus+prorate bonus). If cut, they eat the prorated bonus for 21 and 22( 3+3) plus the guaranteed salary of 1.2mil.

Therefore, they save 7mil.

In real money, the owner writes a check for 1.2mil for 0 snaps by cutting him. The signing bonus was paid out day 1. So, in real money they save 8.8mil, and in cap space they gain 7mil.

Tayson Hill has a cap hit of 16.1mil for 2021. His base salary is 10.7mil, 7.15 is guaranteed salary, and a prorated bonus of 4.
If cut, they save 5mil towards the cap.

Malcom Brown is signed through 2022...

Emmaunel Sanders cap hit is 10mil for 2021. If cut, his prorated bonus from 21+22 accelerate immediately hence the dead cap of 4mil. His base is 6 and 2mil is guaranteed.
Therefore if cut, it's a savings of 4mil.
Prorated bonus(4mil)+2mil guaranteed= 6 mil(dead).
10mil - 6mil = 4mil of 2021 cap savings.


If you're going to be rude, be right. Once again you are rude and wrong.

 

[jterrell]

The cap will be well above 175M.
But the Saints will face a major cap issue regardless.

Yes, they will get under it but it won't be with moves they enjoy making.
They may have to rebuild now based upon the cap situation.

 

[John813]

@gjkoeppen

Drew Brees: Cap hit 36.15mil, dead cap= 22.65mil = 13.5mil saved
Malcom Brown: Cap hit 6.5mil, dead cap= 1.5 = 5mil saved
Nick Easton: cap hit = 7mil, dead cap= 1mil = 6mil saved
Marshon Lattimore: cap hit= 10.24mil, 0 dead cap = 10.24mil saved
Tayson Hill: cap hit= 16.159, dead= 11.159 = 5mil saved
Janoris Jenkins: cap hit =14.2mil, dead = 7.2= 7mil saved
Emmanuel Sanders: cap hit = 10mil, dead = 6, 4mil saved
Ryan Ramczyk: cap hit 11.064, dead = 0, 11.064 mil saved
Kwon Alexaner: cap hit =13.4mil, dead = 0, 13.4mil saved*

13.5+5+6+10.24+5+7+4+11.064+13.4= 75.204mil cap space gained in 2021.

 

[Motorola]

Agree that the Saints are in a cap mess.
But the Saints knew that Brees was nearing the end and tried to squeeze out 1 last run at a SB before moving on.
It didn't work and now they'll be in Dogsville for a couple of years, having to trade or release expensive vets, but I don't blame them for trying.
2022 & 2023 will likely yield high draft picks (plus whatever they get in the fire sale) to get a QB to rebuild around and in a couple of years they'll be out of cap hell and building around a young QB entering his prime, with money to spend.

After three straight 7-9 seasons, GM & HC were on the hot seat.
They then revamped and went all in. The result:
Four straight NFC South titles (11-5, 13-3, 13-3, 12-4)
Wildcard, two division, one conference title appearances.
New Orleans Saints fell short each time; but they put forth tremendous effort to be a constistent playoff contender.
End of an era for the franchise -- HOF QB, Successful GM leaving.
Mass exodus of quality roster pending plus cap ramifications on the horizon.
Will see what price they pay = how many bad seasons before the rebound?

 

[Carson]

Let me get Lattimore, Williams or Rankins

 

[exciter]

They can free up 75 million by:
Brees retiring, cutting Malcom Brown, Nick Eason, Lattimore(or trade), Taysom Hill, Janoris Jenkins, Emmanuel Sanders, Rankins, and then cutting or trading Ramczyk and Kwon Alexander.

Some of those guys will have trade value.

Guys like Cam Jordan Can restructure and save roughly 7mil for 2021.
Michael Thomas can be restructure, convert 11.6mil to a bonus, and save ~8mil in cap space.



Add in the cap isn't set, and the rumors the NFL may allow teams to borrow cap from future years.

It's really not that hard. They will have to shed some talent, but they will still have their young core locked up.

They will probably "rebuild" the next few years.

It’s been highly publicized on Saints radio and other media outlets here in Louisiana that Lattimore and Ramstyck are priority resigns and considered cornerstone players for their future!

 

[exciter]

The Joneses have struggled to build a winner in the Cap Era. I believe the current cap situation of the Saints should serve as notice to the rest of the league of how kicking contract dollars to future years can become a problem.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-cap-experts-are-unsure-how-theyll-escape-it/

Just the price of having a roster that can compete in today’s NFL. They took their shot while they had a franchise QB. Time to reload while looking for another!

 

[cern]

@gjkoeppen

Drew Brees: Cap hit 36.15mil, dead cap= 22.65mil = 13.5mil saved
Malcom Brown: Cap hit 6.5mil, dead cap= 1.5 = 5mil saved
Nick Easton: cap hit = 7mil, dead cap= 1mil = 6mil saved
Marshon Lattimore: cap hit= 10.24mil, 0 dead cap = 10.24mil saved
Tayson Hill: cap hit= 16.159, dead= 11.159 = 5mil saved
Janoris Jenkins: cap hit =14.2mil, dead = 7.2= 7mil saved
Emmanuel Sanders: cap hit = 10mil, dead = 6, 4mil saved
Ryan Ramczyk: cap hit 11.064, dead = 0, 11.064 mil saved
Kwon Alexaner: cap hit =13.4mil, dead = 0, 13.4mil saved*

13.5+5+6+10.24+5+7+4+11.064+13.4= 75.204mil cap space gained in 2021.

Sounds good. But isn't it at the cost of losing 9 good players? What do you think it will cost to get 9 other players of comparable talent. Especially at cb and qb.

 

[Londonboy]

After three straight 7-9 seasons, GM & HC were on the hot seat.
They then revamped and went all in. The result:
Four straight NFC South titles (11-5, 13-3, 13-3, 12-4)
Wildcard, two division, one conference title appearances.
New Orleans Saints fell short each time; but they put forth tremendous effort to be a constistent playoff contender.
End of an era for the franchise -- HOF QB, Successful GM leaving.
Mass exodus of quality roster pending plus cap ramifications on the horizon.
Will see what price they pay = how many bad seasons before the rebound?

They'll spend a few season paying the piper, but if I were a Saints fan, I'd appreciate that My team did all it could, but for some bad luck, bad beats and bad reffing it could have gone better, maybe even another SB better.

 

[Vinnie2u]

Me thinks that every team who signed QB's to Big Contracts, betting that the cap will continue to balloon, will be in trouble...

 

[DandyDon52]

Thats phooey. The Saints have been legit super bowl contenders for years. They got derailed this past season when Brees broke all those ribs and came back a shell of himself. You can't plan for something like that happening.

Now Brees will retire (most likely) and the Saints will cut a bunch of expensive vets........call it tanking for a year....... Peyton will find his next QB prodigy and rebuild. Only NE has been able to maintain excellence more than 3-4 years in a row in the cap era. But, I'd rather be on that cycle than the Cowboys mediocre cycle and never have a chance.

how did he break the ribs, that seems like more than a football injury!