How big of a need is DT 3T?

[Beaker42]

Since there's not a starting caliber 3T on this roster, I'd say yeah, it's a pretty huge need. They need both tackle spots and 1/2 to 3/4 of the secondary, as well as another linebacker or two. It's a mess.

Gallimore would like a word with you.

 

[Beaker42]

Not even a little bit. No correlation between 1Ts and successful run defense, no correlation between successful run defense and winning.

It's a passing league. If a DT can't penetrate and get after the quarterback, they have no value.

LMAO how many teams really didn’t have to throw a pass to move the ball on us? If you can’t force the other team to pass you’re in for a long game.

 

[Beaker42]

Probably the best way to utilize Tank, would play him all over the line.

Day 3 would be an excellent time to draft some of those lunch-pail 5 Tech's. Think finding that NT is the biggest need to address for this scheme as they don't have anyone on the current roster for that position.

6.5 sacks this season. Tank is stealing Jerry’s money.

 

[SFloridaCowboy]

DT1, DT3. 1-technique, 3-technique, lots of verbiage. A waste of time to discuss. Just give me talent, talent and talent. No bargain basement deals for guys who are mediocre at best.

All I know the Cowboys won five Super Bowls with Jethro Pugh with Bob Lilly; Randy White with Jethro Pugh; Russel Maryland and Tony Casillas twice; and Leon Lett with Chad Hennings.

It was simple, LDT and RDT. Your RDT tended to be the quicker of the two as a pass rusher, but the LDT was not soley a run stuffer by any means.

I want two dominating, hell-raising DT's who tackle behind the line of scrimmage, who push the pocket into the QB, block some passes and also get 6-10 sacks each; guys who make the speed rushers' life much easier. They must hold and control the point of attack instead of being pushed away as I saw in the last few years.

I have not seen very good defensive tackle play since Jason Hatcher's last year with the Boys.

Jimmy Johnson added Tony Casillas, Russel Maryland, and Leon Lett in 91, Charles Haley in trade and Chad Hennings out of the Air Force in 1992. The team was ready for 5-6 Super Bowls.

Now, due to a quarter of a century of failures, no effort has been made to build the DT position by drafting sure fire players. T Hill was a 5th rounder. Gallimore may become good. We need stars.

Perhaps Balmore and Nixon can be ones. I would trade down to #15 and get a 2nd and then trade back into the first and get one of these two DT's. Or alternatively, draft two DT's in 2nd round after the aforemtioned trade, then draft a safety and CB in the 3rd round. Both 4th's on OT's.

Jimmy Johnson's 1992 team had deep DL. You had Tolbert and Haley at ends, Casillas and Maryland at DT's. But there were Jim Jeffocoat, plus three young, hungry and talented guys, Chad Hennings, Leon Lett and Jimmy Jones, spelling them with huge talent and energy.

Would anyone other than DLAW from the 2020 team beat out these 1992 backups? I doubt it.

 

[cnuball21]

Why? Not every player fits every scheme. Some guys are completely wrong for it. I don't see why a guy who runs a specific scheme should be fired because he's doing what he was hired to do. That makes no sense to me.

I think you’re overthinking it dude...unless we ask DLaw to drop into coverage and guard a TE he’ll be fine.

 

[kskboys]

DT1, DT3. 1-technique, 3-technique, lots of verbiage. A waste of time to discuss. Just give me talent, talent and talent. No bargain basement deals for guys who are mediocre at best.

All I know the Cowboys won five Super Bowls with Jethro Pugh with Bob Lilly; Randy White with Jethro Pugh; Russel Maryland and Tony Casillas twice; and Leon Lett with Chad Hennings.

It was simple, LDT and RDT. Your RDT tended to be the quicker of the two as a pass rusher, but the LDT was not soley a run stuffer by any means.

I want two dominating, hell-raising DT's who tackle behind the line of scrimmage, who push the pocket into the QB, block some passes and also get 6-10 sacks each; guys who make the speed rushers' life much easier. They must hold and control the point of attack instead of being pushed away as I saw in the last few years.

I have not seen very good defensive tackle play since Jason Hatcher's last year with the Boys.

Jimmy Johnson added Tony Casillas, Russel Maryland, and Leon Lett in 91, Charles Haley in trade and Chad Hennings out of the Air Force in 1992. The team was ready for 5-6 Super Bowls.

Now, due to a quarter of a century of failures, no effort has been made to build the DT position by drafting sure fire players. T Hill was a 5th rounder. Gallimore may become good. We need stars.

Perhaps Balmore and Nixon can be ones. I would trade down to #15 and get a 2nd and then trade back into the first and get one of these two DT's. Or alternatively, draft two DT's in 2nd round after the aforemtioned trade, then draft a safety and CB in the 3rd round. Both 4th's on OT's.

Jimmy Johnson's 1992 team had deep DL. You had Tolbert and Haley at ends, Casillas and Maryland at DT's. But there were Jim Jeffocoat, plus three young, hungry and talented guys, Chad Hennings, Leon Lett and Jimmy Jones, spelling them with huge talent and energy.

Would anyone other than DLAW from the 2020 team beat out these 1992 backups? I doubt it.

Then why are you here wasting your time?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think you’re overthinking it dude...unless we ask DLaw to drop into coverage and guard a TE he’ll be fine.

That is actually exactly what Seattle asked the LEO to do. I think a lot of our fan base need to watch some Seattle tape and understand what it is they do defensively because that's what's coming to Dallas.

 

[cnuball21]

That is actually exactly what Seattle asked the LEO to do. I think a lot of our fan base need to watch some Seattle tape and understand what it is they do defensively because that's what's coming to Dallas.

I'd strongly disagree with you there. Any team, regardless of scheme, that's going to ask a DE/OLB to carry a TE down the field is incredibly stupid.

Our team is not going to ask Gregory or Lawrence to do this. They might have them drop and cover flats in the zone but even that will be low percentage.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'd strongly disagree with you there. Any team, regardless of scheme, that's going to ask a DE/OLB to carry a TE down the field is incredibly stupid.

Our team is not going to ask Gregory or Lawrence to do this. They might have them drop and cover flats in the zone but even that will be low percentage.

omg...... nobody said that they expect the LEO to single up on a receiver all over the field. You need to go study how Seattle plays defense. Seattle will ask the LEO to drop into coverage and play zone or cover a shorter area. They do that. But whatever, you believe that we should pay 20 mil to Lawrence to play LEO so maybe you know something I don't.

 

[cnuball21]

omg...... nobody said that they expect the LEO to single up on a receiver all over the field. You need to go study how Seattle plays defense. Seattle will ask the LEO to drop into coverage and play zone or cover a shorter area. They do that. But whatever, you believe that we should pay 20 mil to Lawrence to play LEO so maybe you know something I don't.

I posted this..."unless we ask DLaw to drop into coverage and guard a TE he’ll be fine." You said that is exactly what SEA asks the LEO to do. And now you're saying nobody should expect the LEO to single up a WR?

Regardless...Dlaw is really good against the run and as a pass rusher. Quinn will make this work. And Gregory will likely be the one playing the LEO role.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I posted this..."unless we ask DLaw to drop into coverage and guard a TE he’ll be fine." You said that is exactly what SEA asks the LEO to do. And now you're saying nobody should expect the LEO to single up a WR?

Regardless...Dlaw is really good against the run and as a pass rusher. Quinn will make this work. And Gregory will likely be the one playing the LEO role.

And it is what they ask but then you came out with the whole, over a TE all over the field. Well, watch Seattle play defense. This is not how they play. Yes, they do ask the LEO to cover but not to single up all over the field. So, are you gonna say that you think Lawrence can drop and cover cause I don't think that can happen. So, I believe Gregory is going to be the guy at LEO. He fits but you got this problem see, you are paying 20 mil a season for Lawrence to play. You gonna pay 20 a year to come in and be the backup at LEO or are you gonna say that at 275, you want him to line up and play a 5tech because he's good against the run? Again, the 5tech doesn't do that in the Seattle scheme. Those guys lock up so that the LBs can stay clean and make tackles. They aren't the guys who are making a lot of tackles. So for you to say that he's good against the run, well that's fine but he's not going to be making tackles, he's going to be eating blocks if he's playing DE that is not the LEO. His body is going to wear down pretty quick and that is a whole lot of money to be putting into that position. Two things here. If he agrees, we are way overpaying for that guy to play that position. Those guys get a couple mil to play not 20 a season so that's a really poor investment in our cap. The second is that Lawrence would be basically signing up for never ever getting paid that kind of money going forward. Once he decides to become a 5tech, it's only a matter of time before he wears down because he is not a big body DE, even if he puts on weight. So I don't see him being in love with that idea myself. He's not a scheme fit.

I've explained all of this a few times now so I'm about done doing all of this over and over. I don't see this working out for him but hey, I've been wrong before. Guess we'll see.

 

[Cowboyny]

Seattle's base defense under Dan Quinn as the DC:

LE-Red Bryant (4T). Michael Bennet was behind him and played in the nickel.
3T-Tony McDaniel (This is where Hill/Gallimore fit)
NT-Brandon Mebane (2 Gap NT)
Leo-Clemons Avril was behind him and also played in the nickel

For the base defense as it pertains to the Cowboys:

LE-will be more of a 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT. DLaw will replace them in the nickel
3T-Gallimore/Hill
NT-need to fill in the offseason, this position 2 gaps
Leo-DLaw. Gregory like Avril will come in the nickel, where DLaw moves to LE.

 

[Future]

LMAO how many teams really didn’t have to throw a pass to move the ball on us? If you can’t force the other team to pass you’re in for a long game.

You force the other team to pass by scoring.

 

[Beaker42]

You force the other team to pass by scoring.

OK, I’ll play along - why would you pass and risk an INT when all you have to do is handoff and get 250-300 yds on the ground against us, win TOP and score at will??

 

[Future]

OK, I’ll play along - why would you pass and risk an INT when all you have to do is handoff and get 250-300 yds on the ground against us, win TOP and score at will??

TOP doesn't matter, first of all, and second of all, it's not dependent on the run game.

Because the scenario you're describing doesn't exist. There is no team that can "score at will" by running the ball. Eventually, you'll put yourself in 2nd and 9 or whatever and have to throw.

 

[Future]

Seattle's base defense under Dan Quinn as the DC:

LE-Red Bryant (4T). Michael Bennet was behind him and played in the nickel.
3T-Tony McDaniel (This is where Hill/Gallimore fit)
NT-Brandon Mebane (2 Gap NT)
Leo-Clemons Avril was behind him and also played in the nickel

For the base defense as it pertains to the Cowboys:

LE-will be more of a 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT. DLaw will replace them in the nickel
3T-Gallimore/Hill
NT-need to fill in the offseason, this position 2 gaps
Leo-DLaw. Gregory like Avril will come in the nickel, where DLaw moves to LE.

This is a good enough breakdown, but the board is too worried about this. Teams are in "base" something like 25% of the time. What Quinn did in the nickel is really what matters.

 

[Cowboyny]

This is a good enough breakdown, but the board is too worried about this. Teams are in "base" something like 25% of the time. What Quinn did in the nickel is really what matters.

Yes, teams are in the nickel the majority of the time. We are going to see Tank/Gregory at defensive end and most likely 2 3T's inside in the nickel. Strong-side LB comes off the field for the nickel CB.