Lack of big FA Spending

[fivetwos]

Yet somehow other teams re-sign their best players and still are more active in FA. You seemingly like to debate in extremes.

- Spending big in FA or spending nothing.

- Sign your own or don’t and spend a ton in FA.

There is a wide chasm of middle ground here where you can sign your better players and still be more active in FA than the Cowboys are.

I think it's tough to as much as compare our organization and how its run to other teams.

In most cases (BB in NE comes to mind as an exception), you have a GM in place that needs to win within a certain time frame or they are gone.

There's of course no threat of that in Dallas.

That in itself might be seen as an advantage by some and as a total mess by others.

 

[Creeper]

wasn't spears a DT? i mean we got ware then spears in the first that year correct, running a 4-3 im sure spears was more of an inside guy..i know he was listed a FDE but maybe in 3-4 but technically in our system didnt he play inside a lot?

From MarcusSpears.com: "Drafted in the first round of the 2005 NFL Draft by the Dallas Cowboys, Spears played defensive end for nine NFL seasons, retiring in 2014." He was drafted by Parcells to play DE in the Cowboys 3-4 defense. That is where he played most of his career.

 

[Sydla]

The other issue that probably needs it's own thread that compounds FA. Under this whole premise that we don't spend in FA because we spend on our own, there is the reality that Jerry has made some pretty big mistakes in signing his own. He tried to get Smith and Crawford under contract early because he thought they would explode into elite level guys and cost even more when their contracts were up. He has gotten burned by both. He should have let Elliott hold out instead of overpaying for a TB.

So signing your own isn't this badge of honor some want to think it is because Jerry sometimes has a loyalty streak in him and it clouds rational thought when it comes to his own guys.

 

[kevm3]

It's not necessarily about signing over a hundred million in contracts. It's about signing actual quality players who will actually stick around long enough to contribute. Instead of signing 4 guys who will be cut before the season begins, pool that money and sign one guy who can actually contribute as a starter.

 

[blueblood70]

From MarcusSpears.com: "Drafted in the first round of the 2005 NFL Draft by the Dallas Cowboys, Spears played defensive end for nine NFL seasons, retiring in 2014." He was drafted by Parcells to play DE in the Cowboys 3-4 defense. That is where he played most of his career.

I forgot parcells played the 3-4 weve bene 4-3 so log it skipped my mind..i could swear he played inside later years but yes i guess he was DE and weve had some dang good DEs over the years..DT has slipped through the cracks..

 

[buybuydandavis]

Here's our FA signings starting in 2016. It's pretty bad.

2016

Cedric Thornton
Benson Mayowa
Alfred Morris
Joe Looney

2017

Nolan Carroll
Byron Bell
Stephen Paea
Damontre Moore
Jonathon Cooper

2018

Allen Hurns
Deonte Thompson
Cam Fleming
Marcus Martin
Joe Thomas

2019

Randall Cobb
Kerry Hyder
Christian Covington

2020

Andy Dalton
Blake Bell
Cam Erving
Everson Griffen
Aldon Smith
Dontari Poe
Gerald McCoy
Maurice Canady
Brandon Carr
Daryl Worley
HaHa Clinton Dix
Greg Zuerlein

I think you could argue Cobb and Zuerlein were really good signings and big contributors. Looney is a JAG but was a pretty competent fill in for us and certainly filled a roll. Aldon Smith started off hot but tailed off and it looks like he might not even be in our plans. Thomas was a decent backup LB. Dalton was a decent backup QB.

The rest? Not good. Some just got injured, others just sucked. The class with Nolan Carroll, Moore, Paea was a real doozy as those were arguably our three biggest signings and none of the three made it past November on the roster.

"We pick really poorly in free agency. Let's spend a lot *more* money in free agency!"

Free agency is *generally* bad value, and should be expected to be so. You're competing with the uncertainty of all the teams on a player, with the team who expects the most out of the player winning the bidding. That's almost certainly going to be a team that *overestimates* what the player brings.

Free agency is when owners have the *least* leverage in negotiations. Hence, they get the worst deals.

Build through the draft. Sign your own guys who you have the *best* information on, while you still have some leverage on them with your rights to them. Better leverage, better information, better deals.

We've had some bad contracts of our own guys. Some not so bad. Some will look better as the new TV deals start to push up the market.

All in all, they'll look better than the free agent contracts we've signed, better than the big money free agent contracts other teams have signed, and better than the free agent contracts of players we let go.

 

[Sydla]

"We pick really poorly in free agency. Let's spend a lot *more* money in free agency!"

Free agency is *generally* bad value, and should be expected to be so. You're competing with the uncertainty of all the teams on a player, with the team who expects the most out of the player winning the bidding. That's almost certainly going to be a team that *overestimates* what the player brings.

Free agency is when owners have the *least* leverage in negotiations. Hence, they get the worst deals.

Build through the draft. Sign your own guys who you have the *best* information on, while you still have some leverage on them with your rights to them. Better leverage, better information, better deals.

We've had some bad contracts of our own guys. Some not so bad. Some will look better as the new TV deals start to push up the market.

All in all, they'll look better than the free agent contracts we've signed, better than the big money free agent contracts other teams have signed, and better than the free agent contracts of players we let go.

One reason we have such a bad hit rate in FA is because we sign guys on the cheap instead of an elite or even high mid-level player. So of course, when you eschew bringing in a better CB and settle for Nolan Carroll, the odds are that player is going to bust and it makes it look like you don't know what you are doing. So anyone who is truly honest with themselves would understand one big reason we suck at FA is not because FA is inherently a flawed process, but rather that when you sign mostly low end free agents, the hit rate on those guys is extremely small.

The reality is this franchise likely cannot win a SB on drafting alone. As much as you guys want to think the Cowboys have found the secret sauce to building a SB winner, the results on the field clearly show their "theory" isn't working. Now that's not to say the Cowboys need to restructure everyone, create $80-90 million in space and spend like a drunken sailor. But they go to the opposite extreme where they just throw small contracts at guys and hope something sticks. It fails year after year. And you guys keep coming back each year to defend it as if it's a proven, working process.

 

[gjkoeppen]

You need a mix of all of this, being penny pinchers in FA doesn't get you Super Bowls either when you have glaring holes.

Many teams that use the same philosophy as the Cowboys to build through the draft and only occasionally signing a free agent that go year after year to the playoffs and Super Bowls. If the Cowboys were like many of those teams that needed just that one player to get them over the hump, then those that whine because the Cowboys aren't jumping in over paying those big name free agents might have a point. But the Cowboys aren't ANYWHERE CLOSE to being just 1 player away from getting over the hump so they spend on free agency to get as much help as they can without using all their cap space on 1 free agent other teams don't want anymore.
.
.

 

[fivetwos]

One reason we have such a bad hit rate in FA is because we sign guys on the cheap instead of an elite or even high mid-level player. So of course, when you eschew bringing in a better CB and settle for Nolan Carroll, the odds are that player is going to bust and it makes it look like you don't know what you are doing. So anyone who is truly honest with themselves would understand one big reason we suck at FA is not because FA is inherently a flawed process, but rather that when you sign mostly low end free agents, the hit rate on those guys is extremely small.

The reality is this franchise likely cannot win a SB on drafting alone. As much as you guys want to think the Cowboys have found the secret sauce to building a SB winner, the results on the field clearly show their "theory" isn't working. Now that's not to say the Cowboys need to restructure everyone, create $80-90 million in space and spend like a drunken sailor. But they go to the opposite extreme where they just throw small contracts at guys and hope something sticks. It fails year after year. And you guys keep coming back each year to defend it as if it's a proven, working process.

I agree with your thoughts at least as much as anyone over the last week.

All are fully on point.

I personally was POed early on when my top two guys....John Johnson and Jason Verrett..... signed elsewhere for way cheaper than I thought they may.

I'm at the point where I'm going to figure that Dan Quinn knows what he wants more so than I do, so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Do I have confidence it will work out? Not really, but I'm going to hope it does, because that's all we have.

 

[Creeper]

I forgot parcells played the 3-4 weve bene 4-3 so log it skipped my mind..i could swear he played inside later years but yes i guess he was DE and weve had some dang good DEs over the years..DT has slipped through the cracks..

He absolutely did play inside at times, but he was drafted as a 3-4 DE. Nice guy too!

 

[gjkoeppen]

One reason we have such a bad hit rate in FA is because we sign guys on the cheap instead of an elite or even high mid-level player. So of course, when you eschew bringing in a better CB and settle for Nolan Carroll, the odds are that player is going to bust and it makes it look like you don't know what you are doing. So anyone who is truly honest with themselves would understand one big reason we suck at FA is not because FA is inherently a flawed process, but rather that when you sign mostly low end free agents, the hit rate on those guys is extremely small.

The reality is this franchise likely cannot win a SB on drafting alone. As much as you guys want to think the Cowboys have found the secret sauce to building a SB winner, the results on the field clearly show their "theory" isn't working. Now that's not to say the Cowboys need to restructure everyone, create $80-90 million in space and spend like a drunken sailor. But they go to the opposite extreme where they just throw small contracts at guys and hope something sticks. It fails year after year. And you guys keep coming back each year to defend it as if it's a proven, working process.

There are many teams that primarily build their teams through the draft. When they are close and need just that one player to get over the hump they will go out and get a player in free agency. The Cowboys haven't been just that one player away from getting over the hump so spending what cap space they have on some other team's free agent will end up with the same results but with another high salary to have to worry about. Do I wish the Cowboys win the Super Bowl every year - you bet ya, but spending all available cap space on some other teams free agent limiting what can be done that year and future years because of that high salary isn't the way to go. When the Cowboys get to where they are just that 1 player away, I'll be the first to jump up and down saying they should sign this free agent or that one, but not now because they're nowhere close to that.
.
.

 

[jaythecowboy]

Many teams that use the same philosophy as the Cowboys to build through the draft and only occasionally signing a free agent that go year after year to the playoffs and Super Bowls. If the Cowboys were like many of those teams that needed just that one player to get them over the hump, then those that whine because the Cowboys aren't jumping in over paying those big name free agents might have a point. But the Cowboys aren't ANYWHERE CLOSE to being just 1 player away from getting over the hump so they spend on free agency to get as much help as they can without using all their cap space on 1 free agent other teams don't want anymore.
.
.

The Cowboys are an aberration. No one else is spending nearly this little. The Cowboys haven't even attempted a big free agent in 10 years. The Cowboys won't even get to one player away unless they infuse this team with some outside talent or somehow draft five impact players in one draft.

 

[gjkoeppen]

The Cowboys are an aberration. No one else is spending nearly this little. The Cowboys haven't even attempted a big free agent in 10 years. The Cowboys won't even get to one player away unless they infuse this team with some outside talent or somehow draft five impact players in one draft.

You are so full of BS. ELEVEN teams had to cut players or restructure contracts not to get some money to spend in free agency, but to just get under the cap. If the cap remained what it was last season then EIGHT of them would still would have to do the same thing. So tell me how many big name free agents are those 11 teams signing? You're just another one that thinks the Cowboys should spend all their available cap space signing some big name player that another team hasn't got signed thinking that one player will turn this team around and in reality he won't. What that would do is make it that any players the Cowboys want to resign they won't be able to because they spent their remaining cap space on one over paid big name free agent. So they fill ONE hole but create SEVERAL other and are no closer to turning things around. Fans just don't get that the Madden Football approach just doesn't work in the real NFL.
.
.

 

[jaythecowboy]

You are so full of BS. ELEVEN teams had to cut players or restructure contracts not to get some money to spend in free agency, but to just get under the cap. If the cap remained what it was last season then EIGHT of them would still would have to do the same thing. So tell me how many big name free agents are those 11 teams signing? You're just another one that thinks the Cowboys should spend all their available cap space signing some big name player that another team hasn't got signed thinking that one player will turn this team around and in reality he won't. What that would do is make it that any players the Cowboys want to resign they won't be able to because they spent their remaining cap space on one over paid big name free agent. So they fill ONE hole but create SEVERAL other and are no closer to turning things around. Fans just don't get that the Madden Football approach just doesn't work in the real NFL.
.
.

How is it bs? You're talking about one offseason and I'm talking about 10 years. I'm not saying one guy will equal a Super Bowl but one guy that can be part of your core for the next three to four years would raise the level of your team. Combine that with good drafts and you have a better chance of a Super Bowl.

https://overthecap.com/free-agent-success-rates-2017-to-2020/

 

[Starforever]

2019 saw the following teams as big spenders in free agency and their spending rank:

Washington #10
Buffalo #9
Tampa Bay #8
Tennessee #7


In 2020 they ALL made the playoffs....just saying Gil.

Last year was not normal, and most teams could not field their talent. We will see how it goes with everyone starting fresh. There were more than four teams in the playoffs; what were the other teams spending?

 

[Sydla]

There are many teams that primarily build their teams through the draft. When they are close and need just that one player to get over the hump they will go out and get a player in free agency. The Cowboys haven't been just that one player away from getting over the hump so spending what cap space they have on some other team's free agent will end up with the same results but with another high salary to have to worry about. Do I wish the Cowboys win the Super Bowl every year - you bet ya, but spending all available cap space on some other teams free agent limiting what can be done that year and future years because of that high salary isn't the way to go. When the Cowboys get to where they are just that 1 player away, I'll be the first to jump up and down saying they should sign this free agent or that one, but not now because they're nowhere close to that.
.
.

You guys make bizarre arguments. Of course most (almost all) teams use the draft mostly to build a roster. It would be nearly impossible to build a team from mostly FAs. You also drop the massive strawman argument about people wanting the Cowboys to spend all available cap space, which if course few have said.

It's very simple. Teams that have been successful have used the draft and free agency to win. Look over the last 6-7-8 Super Bowl winners and each one, if you look at the year of and year before the SB, they added some key free agents. They looked at their roster, saw a hole, and said let's try to fill it with a key player that can play. You'll struggle to find a recent SB winner that does what the Cowboys have done......... that's just reality.

The Cowboys have continually failed to use a key method to improve their roster. They just have.

And this BS about not being 1 player away, is just that. First, you don't really know if you are really one player away. Second, you never really get to be just one player away if all you do is think you can draft guys to fill all your roster spots. The Cowboys have employed this draft/cheap bargain bin FA method for 6-7 years now and guess what? They never are one player away. How much longer do we need to wait for them to build the complete but just one player short method through the draft?

 

[gjkoeppen]

How is it bs? You're talking about one offseason and I'm talking about 10 years. I'm not saying one guy will equal a Super Bowl but one guy that can be part of your core for the next three to four years would raise the level of your team. Combine that with good drafts and you have a better chance of a Super Bowl.

https://overthecap.com/free-agent-success-rates-2017-to-2020/

If you knew as much about the available cap space for the past 10 years as you think you do then you would know that until just a few short years ago the Cowboys didn't have any cap space because they had been in a vicious cycle of having to restructure contracts to create cap room that just added dead money down the road. Stephen finally stop that practice for the most part and the Cowboys finally started to have some cap space to be able to resign core players and maybe a couple of mid to low tier free agents.. Again because of the reduction in cap this season the Cowboys were forced to restructure several contracts. Instead of whining about 10 years ago you should find out why they couldn't go out and sign the big name free agents. That vicious cycle the Cowboys got into ever since the cap started is the biggest reason why the Cowboys have had the philosophy of building through the draft because they had no cap space to go out and get those big name free agents. People that are whining about that now don't know or remember what the cap starting did to the Cowboys.
.
.

 

[Sydla]

If you knew as much about the available cap space for the past 10 years as you think you do then you would know that until just a few short years ago the Cowboys didn't have any cap space because they had been in a vicious cycle of having to restructure contracts to create cap room that just added dead money down the road. Stephen finally stop that practice for the most part and the Cowboys finally started to have some cap space to be able to resign core players and maybe a couple of mid to low tier free agents.. Again because of the reduction in cap this season the Cowboys were forced to restructure several contracts. Instead of whining about 10 years ago you should find out why they couldn't go out and sign the big name free agents. That vicious cycle the Cowboys got into ever since the cap started is the biggest reason why the Cowboys have had the philosophy of building through the draft because they had no cap space to go out and get those big name free agents. People that are whining about that now don't know or remember what the cap starting did to the Cowboys.
.
.

It was one extreme (Jerry spending like a drunken fool) to the other extreme (Cowboys throw around turd dollars in FA snapping up bargain bin JAGs). There is this huge wide swath of FA that many winning teams use where they find one or two key guys and try to fill at least one hole they have instead of spreading money across multiple average to below average players hoping that they get lucky once or twice and have a guy actually be able to play at a high level.

 

[gjkoeppen]

You guys make bizarre arguments. Of course most (almost all) teams use the draft mostly to build a roster. It would be nearly impossible to build a team from mostly FAs. You also drop the massive strawman argument about people wanting the Cowboys to spend all available cap space, which if course few have said.

It's very simple. Teams that have been successful have used the draft and free agency to win. Look over the last 6-7-8 Super Bowl winners and each one, if you look at the year of and year before the SB, they added some key free agents. They looked at their roster, saw a hole, and said let's try to fill it with a key player that can play. You'll struggle to find a recent SB winner that does what the Cowboys have done......... that's just reality.

The Cowboys have continually failed to use a key method to improve their roster. They just have.

And this BS about not being 1 player away, is just that. First, you don't really know if you are really one player away. Second, you never really get to be just one player away if all you do is think you can draft guys to fill all your roster spots. The Cowboys have employed this draft/cheap bargain bin FA method for 6-7 years now and guess what? They never are one player away. How much longer do we need to wait for them to build the complete but just one player short method through the draft?

Now it's my turn to pick apart what you said. First off those teams that you say all signed some free agent that year or the year before pretty much proved that they were just one player away from winning it all blowing up your argument that teams never know that they are only one player away. Those teams like most teams that build through the draft looked at what they did the year before and what they perceived was the weakest link to why they didn't make it and then went out and got that big name player for that position and things turned around. The Cowboys haven't been where they could say that if only this position was much better that they could turn things around. They have had holes and needs at multiple positions. That and having little cap space after resigning their core players hasn't left them cap space to go out and sign big name free agents even though they have had multiple needs. All that would have done is make less cap space available in future years because of that big name free agent they signed that wasn't that one payer to put them over the top because they had multiple needs. Those teams that you say did what you say didn't just draft and not sign any free agents until that one big name free agent, but drafted and then signed a couple of free agents like the Cowboys do because NO TEAM has the cap space to go out and sign big name free agents EVERY year. There is an example of a team going out and signing multiple big name free agents. Washington in 1999 made the playoffs but lost in the divisional round thinking their defense needed help so in 2000 they went out and signed Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders and safety Mark Carrier. Oh and they also signed Jeff George as their starting QB. In 2000 Washington had a 8-8 record and missed the playoffs for 5 straight years never having more than those 8 wins in a season. This is proof that going out and signing big name free agents doesn't always result in Super Bowl wins.
.
.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You need a mix of all of this, being penny pinchers in FA doesn't get you Super Bowls either when you have glaring holes.

when you don't draft well (defensively that is), hand out some bloated contracts to a few who don't deserve it (zeke, jaylon), spend money on positins you shouldn't (martin), then you end up with a side of the ball, that doesn't have talent, and you need a lot of players to plug a lot of holes and you can't just sign one big player to close the gap on one area....this is where we are.... until we draft better defensively, we aren't going to be good in FA..