Make your case for whom you want at 10

[cowboygo]

He doesnt play like Ramsey at all. And the "dawg" in him is overrated

He doesn’t? Have you watched the Auburn game?

 

[cowboygo]

How does that complement Diggs? I suggest you go and view both CB's footage against Pitts. There's a headless raw approach to Horn, physical yes, but there's a distinct lack of composure.

I actually think both Horn & Surtain complement Diggs, I just think Horn has a higher ceiling and matches up better with faster players.

and by being sticky, the QB will see it as covered and go someplace else.


Oh and Horn bullied Pitts in that game at times. They had a great battle.

 

[mardwin]

This. Simply measured by impact. Jenkins, Carr, Claiborne, Jones and now Surtain?

And the overall impact to wins and losses?

Flip it...

Smith, Martin, Fredbeard, Collins...

And their impact on wins and losses?

I'll get back with you once Smith , Collins or both go down again or and Steele/Knight/Neske hafta start for more than 2 games.

All of a sudden the whole board's opinion will shift on taking zone corners and tight ends once Dak is on his back or even hurt again.

It's the ONLY thing theyve done well consistently for the last decade.
Draft, coach, and develop 1st rd o linemen.

And again, Rodgers(Bakhtiari)and Mahommes (Fisher/Schwartz)say hello in case anyone missed Tampas d line led championship over backup scrub o linemen.

Philbin ain't no miracle worker.
But I guess we could all use Jerry's approach to not picking the best linemen to protect his investment and hope his surgically repaired tackles hold up over a full season.
If you are a hope is strategy type guy.

I'm not.

My .02.

Thank you!!! An offensive lineman will have a greater impact than a rookie corner.

 

[gimmesix]

Trade down and take Barmore.

The pressure DT position is one of the most important ones in this defensive scheme. Doesn't matter who you have at corner if you don't have a DT who can consistently push the pocket back into the QB. Doesn't matter who you have at linebacker if you don't have a DT who can consistently disrupt the running game.

Barmore needs some technique work against the run (which is the main reason he isn't a top-10 pick), but he appears to be the best in this class at getting pressure on the quarterback as a DT (even though he got off to a slow start his final year possibly because of a preseason leg injury before finishing strong). The whole dynamic of the defense will change if we can find a player who can do that.

Plus, if we trade down for Barmore, we get another early pick that can be used to address another position.

Build this defense from the trenches back and we'll stop having one that lets us down every year.

 

[CowboyoWales]

I actually think both Horn & Surtain complement Diggs, I just think Horn has a higher ceiling and matches up better with faster players.

and by being sticky, the QB will see it as covered and go someplace else.


Oh and Horn bullied Pitts in that game at times. They had a great battle.

The Gator's moved Pitts away from Surtain possibly due to the lack of success. I agree Horn has the flashy footage (and is the better athlete), but it's the boom or bust kind of player (similar in a way to Diggs), whereas Surtain's main attribute is that QB's dont throw in his direction (WR1 in the NFL).

Looking at the Gators footage, after the initial bump Horn was then bullied resulting in a lot of hands on coverage (which is one of his concerns).... Surtain doesnt have to use hands on.

It's not all about BPA or 'higher ceiling' it's about combinations.

I see the Horn/Diggs combination as being risky as both are suited as ballhawks, especially as we dont have a FS that can analyse the play and cover both corners.

If we didnt have Diggs i'd love Horn. It's similar to the Barmore argument, great, but we have Gallimore as an out-and-out 3-tech.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Trade down and take Barmore.

The pressure DT position is one of the most important ones in this defensive scheme. Doesn't matter who you have at corner if you don't have a DT who can consistently push the pocket back into the QB. Doesn't matter who you have at linebacker if you don't have a DT who can consistently disrupt the running game.

Barmore needs some technique work against the run (which is the main reason he isn't a top-10 pick), but he appears to be the best in this class at getting pressure on the quarterback as a DT (even though he got off to a slow start his final year possibly because of a preseason leg injury before finishing strong). The whole dynamic of the defense will change if we can find a player who can do that.

Plus, if we trade down for Barmore, we get another early pick that can be used to address another position.

Build this defense from the trenches back and we'll stop having one that lets us down every year.

Just dont think we can play Barmore with Gallimore, we'd get bullied especially on the run.

 

[morasp]

Trade down and take Barmore.

The pressure DT position is one of the most important ones in this defensive scheme. Doesn't matter who you have at corner if you don't have a DT who can consistently push the pocket back into the QB. Doesn't matter who you have at linebacker if you don't have a DT who can consistently disrupt the running game.

Barmore needs some technique work against the run (which is the main reason he isn't a top-10 pick), but he appears to be the best in this class at getting pressure on the quarterback as a DT (even though he got off to a slow start his final year possibly because of a preseason leg injury before finishing strong). The whole dynamic of the defense will change if we can find a player who can do that.

Plus, if we trade down for Barmore, we get another early pick that can be used to address another position.

Build this defense from the trenches back and we'll stop having one that lets us down every year.

I wouldn't trade back to far though. We've needed a stout DT that could collapse the pocket for a long time.

 

[CowboyoWales]

I wouldn't trade back to far though. We've needed a stout DT that could collapse the pocket for a long time.

Plenty of such DT's in latter rounds. Draft down and use one of the picks (if that's what we can get) on McNeil or Shelvin.

 

[morasp]

Plenty of such DT's in latter rounds. Draft down and use one of the picks (if that's what we can get) on McNeil or Shelvin.

I like Levi Onwuzurike better than those guys and I would take Bobby Brown ahead of them too. If you just wanted a wide body like Shelvin you could get the kid from Kentucky later on.

 

[CowboyoWales]

I like Levi Onwuzurike better than those guys and I would take Bobby Brown ahead of them too. If you just wanted a wide body like Shelvin you could get the kid from Kentucky later on.

Again, it's not about individual players. You do have to look at the team and combinations. If we think Gallimore is a starter then we need someone who's going to command double teaming that will make space for Neville not Onwuzurike who's a similar, smaller, quick 3-tech.

This is the failing of BPA (especially on Defense) , you need to take into account what you already have and how you enhance the scheme.....not throw the player with the best individual ranking into a team of individuals.

 

[morasp]

Again, it's not about individual players. You do have to look at the team and combinations. If we think Gallimore is a starter then we need someone who's going to command double teaming that will make space for Neville not Onwuzurike who's a similar, smaller, quick 3-tech.

Quinn's vision and break cover 3 scheme needs more guys that can collapse the pocket like Barmore, Onwuzurike and even Brown to make the QB get rid of he ball quickly be effective. It relies on a strong pass rush to force the QB to get the ball out of his hands quickly.

 

[Cowboyny]

"starting to break down" is the key phrase.

Our entire defense has been broken down for years. Whos are our starting tackles? Collins and Smith. Who can we move to tackle when Smith is done? Martin.

I would have no problem with Sewel, but if he isnt there, then go defense.

Trust me, Dak doenst need a RB or great Oline. What Dak needs is a defense.

Slater is just a notch below Sewell, he is a legitimate blue chip prospect. Team has reached to fill a need before and had bad results-see Taco. If our OL continues to struggle being available, this team has no chance for success. Just looked what happened to the Chiefs. Two starters have back issues, one just had hip surgery and we have no idea if we need a future starter or not.

 

[Cowboyny]

Since we restructured the OLine’s contracts, I’d have to think the FO thinks their health is better than what we perceive. With that being said, my guy is Jaycee Horn.

Horn is the best athlete at CB. He is grabby, very sticky, but he plays like a Jalen Ramsey: physical. I believe thats the excellent complement opposite of Trevon Diggs. Will he produce penalties (especially being a Cowboy), yes. I believe his stickiness will have QBs throw to Diggs’ direction and have him flourish with interceptions.

I worry about his penalties, but also his lack of ball skills.

 

[Doomsday101]

The only reason he is a technical marvel is because of his dad. He received 5 star training/coaching at young age. His athletic/physical traits are more like late 1st round/early 2nd round.

You certainly have the right to feel however you choose others feel different about his athletic ability and his sub 4.5 40 eased the minds of many who cover the NFL draft. As for his training from his dad, I'm sure that is true but does not change the fact QB avoided attacking him and for a good reason the guy is a damn good CB and 10 by no means is a reach.

 

[cowboygo]

The Gator's moved Pitts away from Surtain possibly due to the lack of success. I agree Horn has the flashy footage (and is the better athlete), but it's the boom or bust kind of player (similar in a way to Diggs), whereas Surtain's main attribute is that QB's dont throw in his direction (WR1 in the NFL).

Looking at the Gators footage, after the initial bump Horn was then bullied resulting in a lot of hands on coverage (which is one of his concerns).... Surtain doesnt have to use hands on.

It's not all about BPA or 'higher ceiling' it's about combinations.

I see the Horn/Diggs combination as being risky as both are suited as ballhawks, especially as we dont have a FS that can analyse the play and cover both corners.

If we didnt have Diggs i'd love Horn. It's similar to the Barmore argument, great, but we have Gallimore as an out-and-out 3-tech.

I’m really only going off 2020 tape, and I do think Horn’s 2020 tape is better than Surtain’s. Which is why I have him as CB1. I do like Surtain as well. Horn is a boom or bust guy, but not necessarily the ballhawk like Diggs. He’s grabby. I want that stickiness and competitiveness on our defense.
For me, I hope Carolina/Denver go CB. I really don’t want the Eagles to end up with either Surtain/Horn. I think they are their target.

 

[cowboygo]

I worry about his penalties, but also his lack of ball skills.

I worry about his penalties as well. What I like most about him is that he is able to look back at the QB. Definitely helps with pass deflections. I agree, he isn’t a ballhawk like Diggs. But he’s sticky & fast.

 

[Cowboyny]

I worry about his penalties as well. What I like most about him is that he is able to look back at the QB. Definitely helps with pass deflections. I agree, he isn’t a ballhawk like Diggs. But he’s sticky & fast.

He is certainly sticky, I just wonder how much he will be able to get away with on the next level.

 

[gimmesix]

I wouldn't trade back to far though. We've needed a stout DT that could collapse the pocket for a long time.

To be safe, I'd want to go no lower than 20. If one of the top five QBs is available at 10, there are a few teams in that range who might be interested in trading up.

 

[gimmesix]

Again, it's not about individual players. You do have to look at the team and combinations. If we think Gallimore is a starter then we need someone who's going to command double teaming that will make space for Neville not Onwuzurike who's a similar, smaller, quick 3-tech.

This is the failing of BPA (especially on Defense) , you need to take into account what you already have and how you enhance the scheme.....not throw the player with the best individual ranking into a team of individuals.

There is no reason to think Gallimore is a starter, at least not the kind this defensive scheme needs. He had a half-sack last year. Could he develop and do better than that? Yes, but that's not a risk you take. You keep going after 3-tech until you get it right, if this is the scheme you want to use, because it is one of the key positions in this scheme.

We need to upgrade 1-tech as well, and I'd love to get McNeill for that, but he's not going to solve our problem of needing a DT who can consistently get into the backfield to disrupt the pass and run.

 

[Dalmations202]

There is no reason to think Gallimore is a starter, at least not the kind this defensive scheme needs. He had a half-sack last year. Could he develop and do better than that? Yes, but that's not a risk you take. You keep going after 3-tech until you get it right, if this is the scheme you want to use, because it is one of the key positions in this scheme.

We need to upgrade 1-tech as well, and I'd love to get McNeill for that, but he's not going to solve our problem of needing a DT who can consistently get into the backfield to disrupt the pass and run.

I agree, but if McNeil demands a double team, it is much less likely Gallimore gets chipped and then only has one man to beat consistently. Gallimore may or may not be the guy. I'd love to see Gallimore and (Barmore/Nixon) getting after the QB with McNeil and Woods demanding the double team on the other side.