Tanking is one of the most cowardly things a team could do

SteveTheCowboy

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Bingo... nobody is out missing tackles on purpose. Nobody is out throwing interceptions on purpose. BUT... a coach can put in players that he knows likely will cost the game. Coach can make some play calls that are a little questionable. Tanking never means yo drop passes or fumble on purpose.

The Sixers tanked for 3 years.... Im pretty sure nobody missed a jumper on purpose.

Players and fans....you should give them a little more credit. They aren't all as stupid as you think, Like it wouldn't be obvious?

If you put someone in there you know will probably drop the pass....or not even able to pass it that far....you don't think it's obvious? Come on....dude. How are you able to BS yourself so easily? But PLEASE...have some dignity and don't expect me to buy it easy.
 

jnday

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So if it's that great of a theory...what else do you have?

Everyone keeps going back to Jimmy and Aikman and Herschel. Nothing else. So I'm all ears.
I don’t have to have anything else. It is a good example of a coach not doing everything possible to win a couple meaningless games. You seem to want to argue and deny the events that took place, so there is no need for me to add anything more for you deny that it took place. Was you even alive when Jimmy tanked that year?
 

SteveTheCowboy

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I don’t have to have anything else. It is a good example of a coach not doing everything possible to win a couple meaningless games. You seem to want to argue and deny the events that took place, so there is no need for me to add anything more for you deny that it took place. Was you even alive when Jimmy tanked that year?

But thirty years ago was a different league. And I never denied it took place. Jimmy didn't "tank"... what did you expect him to do? Draft all of his own players in one year?

Again I tell you if you have to go back thirty fuffing years ago to prove your point....stop being so insulting.

"Was you even alive when Jimmy tanked that year".....do you even speak English?

You lost as soon as you said I denied it took place. Never said any such thing but there you are arguing it. Like an idiot.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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I don’t have to have anything else. It is a good example of a coach not doing everything possible to win a couple meaningless games. You seem to want to argue and deny the events that took place, so there is no need for me to add anything more for you deny that it took place. Was you even alive when Jimmy tanked that year?

You don't have to HAVE anything else because you don't actually HAVE...anything else. just VERY ancient history.

I would normally not believe this horse crap...but these days....people are totally jacked crazy. They don't even THINK about what they are saying they just spout it and expect people to believe it like they do. Crazy people believing their own shtuff. AND expecting other people to just buy right in. Crazy times.
 

Reid1boys

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What's the turnover ratio in the NBA vs the NFL? Or the roster size? Poor comparison. There are 5 starters on an NBA roster. Replace a bad one with a good one and you've effectively upgraded 20% of your starting lineup. There are 22 starters on an NFL roster excluding special teams and not factoring in a higher attrition rate. Do the math. The NFL doesn't have the luxury of completely revamping rosters in 1 or 2 seasons.

Now tell me this. Which games did you expect this team to lose? They were in contention all year, even if it was in a terrible division. They were expected to contend for a playoff spot and make a push before the injuries piled up. Wouldn't it look really really bad on the new head coach and his staff if they didn't at least try to remain competitive? Wouldn't the players notice this?

Look....it's one thing if a team is poor on talent and is rebuilding. That was not the case with this team. Agree or disagree? So if we have a team that's expected to contend for a playoff spot, and did more or less, for 17 weeks, where does tanking come into play?

I never once said anything about Cowboys tanking. Im talking about a team that has a shot at a generation talent at the QB position, because thats the only position in the NFL worth tanking for. Im basically referring to the dumb jets who had Trevor Lawrence locked up and they blew it.
 

Reid1boys

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Players and fans....you should give them a little more credit. They aren't all as stupid as you think, Like it wouldn't be obvious?

If you put someone in there you know will probably drop the pass....or not even able to pass it that far....you don't think it's obvious? Come on....dude. How are you able to BS yourself so easily? But PLEASE...have some dignity and don't expect me to buy it easy.

Who said anything about not making it obvious? Everybody knew the Sixers were tanking... but they didnt actually miss shots on purpose. The sixers actually traded away good players to ensure getting a player like Joel Embid.

Had the Jets went 0-16 last year, it would have been clear to all what was happening..... and not a single Jet fan would complain after Trevor Lawrence landed in town.
 

Verdict

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What I would love to see is the NFL move to a recruiting system like college.
Any team can negotiate with any player. The salary cap will level the playing field between every team.
Interesting concept.
 

Verdict

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Tanking a season is not the actions of a team of players or their coaches. The ability to tank a season comes from management, particularly the GM or person in charge of player personnel.

First, from a common sense point of view, if I am a player, do I want to play with less intensity just so the team can draft a better player? What position will this higher drafted individual play....mine?

From a coaches point of view, these seasons are my resume. Common sense tells me I'm not going to be coaching here forever, no matter how the current team performs. What will matter to any future employer will be the overall performance of my teams compared to their perceived talent level.. Why would I want them to perform at a lower level? I'm already challenged by their lower talent level.

The tanking would have to come from those that decide how to manage the talent level. They would be the only ones with the authority to change the team's overall talent level by manipulating the roster.

It's important to note that their intent isn't to lose more games as much as it is to increase the probability of winning more games in the future. Tanking is a form of trading current success for future success. It's not really as insidious as it sounds.

For example, after the end of the 1988 season, the Cowboys had a really low level of real talent. Most of the talent they did have had declined through age and poor drafting. However, they had one great player, All Pro RB Herschel Walker. Walker could improve the team's overall 1989 record by a few games for sure but it would never have been enough to make the team competitive. The Cowboys would have to lose for several years as they acquired talent through their own draft choices.

So the Cowboy traded Herschel Walker as a method of accelerating the increase of talent level. Of course, the repercussion was a huge decrease in the talent level of the current team. However, it did not reduce the the effort of the current team. In fact, I would say it probably increased it, although the talent level of the team dictated that the effort would not be enough to win games. Every player knew that Jimmy didn't care who you were, if you weren't working hard enough, he would get rid of you. The team was never going to tank by decreasing the individual efforts of the players.

However, it was clear that trading Walker was going to reduce the team's success in 1989. Wasn't this tanking? In Jimmy's capacity as GM, because he did have total authority at the time, he reduced the team's ability to win a few more games. The answer may lie in the way we define "success". Is going 3-13 more "successful" than 1-15? Technically, yes. If, for example, you are in debt by a thousand dollars, then you are better off financially than if you were in debt by ten thousand but you are still in debt.

Here is a question....If I trade a draft pick for a much better one the following year, am I "tanking" the current season?

To summarize, tanking is a myth in the NFL. There are too many players and coaches for a team to conspire to deliberately lose games through less individual efforts. What really happens is the team's executives will make a decision that they believe will result in more success over a specific time period...like the contract length of a GM. The side effect of their decisions will detriment a current season, although GM's would prefer that they don't. The objective is not to lose games and get better draft picks, it is to exchange or liquidate elements of the team that will not be contributing in that future in order to replace them with elements that will be contributing.
Very good post.
 

Chuck 54

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Tanking I detest:
  • A team clearly isn’t trying, top to bottom
  • Trading away all its talent
  • Punting on 4th and 1 or kicking field goals or running the ball when way behind despite having nothing to lose
  • Firing coaches in season and promoting a bum to interim
Tanking I can live with:
  • Trading or releasing a player who sucks (like Poe) because he will not be on the team next year and letting young guys play
  • Trading a guy at the end of his contract to a contender to get a younger player or draft pick who may help
  • Sitting starters with injuries who could gut it out if in the playoff race but now might as well shut it down, get surgeries early, heal, etc.
  • Taking some chances to win a game that normally would not be taken, even if the statistics say such chances are unlikely to succeed
I just don’t want to see an open mockery of the game or such an early sellout that is an embarrassment to Cowboy fans. Those who continually call tanking a wise move for draft position might not like it so much when it starts happening with 7-8 games left on the schedule and everyone talking about the Cowboys tanking.
 

USArmyVet

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In my opinion. It’s one of the most cowardly things a team could do. Nothing positive comes from it. It can destroy a locker room. It creates a losing mentality. All those people that want us to tank and lose games on purpose. What a waste it would’ve been. It would not have given us a better First round draft choice. Specifically because we’re going to be able to take the best Defensive player in this draft. I hope this such a great example of why you never tank . You just don’t know what the result of it is going to bring. Other than Negativity. Go cowboys hope you have a great draft


Dallas finished last season with a 6-10 record which placed them #10 in the draft order. Had Dallas lost 2 more games and finished 4-12, based on strength of schedule they could have held the #3 overall pick in the draft. Seeing how the 49ers traded up from #12 to #3 with Miami (the pick obtained from Houston) and gave up the following:

2021 1st round pick #12 overall
2022 1st round pick
2022 3rd round pick
2023 1st round pick

So Dallas could have made that trade and gotten 2 additional 1st round picks in 2022 & 2023 while still being able to land a quality pick at #12 tells me that tanking would have been good for this organization's future.
 

SteveTheCowboy

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Who said anything about not making it obvious? Everybody knew the Sixers were tanking... but they didnt actually miss shots on purpose. The sixers actually traded away good players to ensure getting a player like Joel Embid.

Had the Jets went 0-16 last year, it would have been clear to all what was happening..... and not a single Jet fan would complain after Trevor Lawrence landed in town.
Okay okay fine. Sure...for the sake of discussion...we'll go with it.

Where did it get them?

(Can't wait for THIS answer!)
 

SteveTheCowboy

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Tanking I detest:
  • A team clearly isn’t trying, top to bottom
  • Trading away all its talent
  • Punting on 4th and 1 or kicking field goals or running the ball when way behind despite having nothing to lose
  • Firing coaches in season and promoting a bum to interim
Tanking I can live with:
  • Trading or releasing a player who sucks (like Poe) because he will not be on the team next year and letting young guys play
  • Trading a guy at the end of his contract to a contender to get a younger player or draft pick who may help
  • Sitting starters with injuries who could gut it out if in the playoff race but now might as well shut it down, get surgeries early, heal, etc.
  • Taking some chances to win a game that normally would not be taken, even if the statistics say such chances are unlikely to succeed
I just don’t want to see an open mockery of the game or such an early sellout that is an embarrassment to Cowboy fans. Those who continually call tanking a wise move for draft position might not like it so much when it starts happening with 7-8 games left on the schedule and everyone talking about the Cowboys tanking.


The "tanking you can live with"...isn't tanking at all. It's operating the team.
 

Whirlwin

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Dallas finished last season with a 6-10 record which placed them #10 in the draft order. Had Dallas lost 2 more games and finished 4-12, based on strength of schedule they could have held the #3 overall pick in the draft. Seeing how the 49ers traded up from #12 to #3 with Miami (the pick obtained from Houston) and gave up the following:

2021 1st round pick #12 overall
2022 1st round pick
2022 3rd round pick
2023 1st round pick

So Dallas could have made that trade and gotten 2 additional 1st round picks in 2022 & 2023 while still being able to land a quality pick at #12 tells me that tanking would have been good for this organization's future.
So you don’t mind quitting to get ahead. Because that’s what tanking is
 

USArmyVet

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So you don’t mind quitting to get ahead. Because that’s what tanking is

Given Dak went down in Week #5 and the defense was pathetic absolutely not as it would improve the franchise for the long-term to tank 1 season after the starting QB went down.
 

Whirlwin

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Given Dak went down in Week #5 and the defense was pathetic absolutely not as it would improve the franchise for the long-term to tank 1 season after the starting QB went down.
I don’t understand your point .tanking is quitting . Trading players to get better it’s just that. That’s not quitting. I don’t think people understand what the word really means. against the Jets last season . The team quit they gave up. That’s cowardly.
 

Frosty

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Dallas finished last season with a 6-10 record which placed them #10 in the draft order. Had Dallas lost 2 more games and finished 4-12, based on strength of schedule they could have held the #3 overall pick in the draft. Seeing how the 49ers traded up from #12 to #3 with Miami (the pick obtained from Houston) and gave up the following:

2021 1st round pick #12 overall
2022 1st round pick
2022 3rd round pick
2023 1st round pick

So Dallas could have made that trade and gotten 2 additional 1st round picks in 2022 & 2023 while still being able to land a quality pick at #12 tells me that tanking would have been good for this organization's future.
Well said.
 

USArmyVet

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I don’t understand your point .tanking is quitting . Trading players to get better it’s just that. That’s not quitting. I don’t think people understand what the word really means. against the Jets last season . The team quit they gave up. That’s cowardly.

No clue as to your point but no worries.
 

HungryLion

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Guys guys guys.

If the cowboys just try really hard, everything will work out.


And hey. We are going to have a great season this year because they beat the bengals and eagles down the stretch last year. We have all the momentum now.
 

Frosty

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Given Dak went down in Week #5 and the defense was pathetic absolutely not as it would improve the franchise for the long-term to tank 1 season after the starting QB went down.

Look no further than the Washington Football Team with a 7-9 record that earned draft pick# 19 vs the Giants & Cowboys 6-10 record and getting top 10 picks.
 
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