Stafford another good example

[KJJ]

The 2009 loss in the playoffs can be placed squarely on the O-line. They literally couldn't protect at all for longer than a second.

A lot of it could be placed on the OL but the defense was terrible as well. Brett Favre had 4 TD passes and Sydney Rice had over 140 yards receiving. We didn’t get it done on either side of the ball. Everyone around Dallas was acting like the Cowboys won the Super Bowl the previous week because the team won their first playoff game in 13 years. They looked flat against Minnesota.

 

[willia451]

That 13 win team in 2007 faded in December and January. Romo’s game fell apart late that season. Go compare his passer ratings in November with Dec/Jan. Go look at all the turnovers he had in Dec/Jan. We’ve had several real good teams lay an egg in the playoffs and it wasn’t due to a lack of talent. Go look at all the terrific players we’ve had over the years TO, Jason Witten, DWare and Dez Bryant. That’s just a few. In 2014 and 2016 we had the best OL in the league. Twice we’ve had backs lead the league in rushing.

Things go wrong for the Cowboys in the playoffs because the poor coaching and penalties catch up with them. It’s never been a talent issue with the Cowboys, they’re not a mentally tough team and they lack discipline and solid coaching. It leads to choking in the playoffs. They had one of the most talented rosters in the league this season. There’s not one expert that would disagree with that.

So you think being dominated most of the game against SF on both sides of the ball at the line of scrimmage had more to do with lack of solid coaching and lack of discipline and not being mentally tough than it did about lack of talent?

I think it was all of the above.

But that's just me.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

After spending 12 years in a dormant franchise he’s finally provided an opportunity with a better team and coaching staff. What a difference it makes. And he made the most of it.

It reminds what Jim Plunkett, Steve Young and Doug Williams did going to a better team and winning a championship.

Too many times good QB’s aren’t afforded being on better teams. The personal numbers over the years supported Stafford was better than the teams he was on and this confirms it.

Truth. It's been proven over and over that it's a team sport. Your quarterback doesn't win the games. The team does. The quarterback needs to play his part well, but he can't do that without a quality O-line to protect him, a good defense to keep the other team's scoring down, and competent special teams. If Archie Manning had played for Landry's Cowboys, he almost certainly would have won one or more Super Bowls. By the same token, even a great quarterback like Staubach could not have rescued those crappy Saints teams that Manning played for.

It doesn't mean you can win with any old scrub for a quarterback. A lousy QB can drag a good team down. It's just that even an outstanding quarterback can't win a championship without the support of a great team.

 

[KJJ]

So you think being dominated most of the game against SF on both sides of the ball at the line of scrimmage had more to do with lack of solid coaching and lack of discipline and not being mentally tough than it did about lack of talent?

I think it was all of the above.

But that's just me.

They were a more physical team than us but not a more talented team. Plus we tied a season high with 14 penalties. We were the most penalized team in the league this season. That’s a lack of discipline that falls on the coaching. Feel free to provide a link with anyone who says the Cowboys aren’t a talented team.

 

[willia451]

They were a more physical team than us but not a more talented team. Plus we tied a season high with 14 penalties. We were the most penalized team in the league this season. That’s a lack of discipline that falls on the coaching. Feel free to provide a link with anyone who says the Cowboys aren’t a talented team.

What do you mean by "talented"? Isn't being more physical being more talented? Or does that link back to coaching, mental toughness, and discipline too?

At this point your going to need to define and describe what you mean by "talent". Is it just the stuff we can see at like, the combine, for instance? The pure measurables?

And even the beat writers over at the site that shall remain nameless scoffed at the bleacher report early last year saying the Cowboys were top 3 in talent in the NFL. Top 10? Maybe they said.

Which sounds about right to me. Seeing Dak is just on the high side of average. Stat padding none withstanding.

 

[Tussinman]

And prob the gold jacket, also for having to deal with the adversity of playing wit a bottom feeder in Detroit for a large part of his career.

Stafford is a nice story but he's no where even close to being a gold jacket.

Stafford has never made the day 1 pro bowl roster in his entire career, he's been a solid QB but that's very telling (no all-pros, never lead the league in any category, never made the day 1 pro bowl roster).

 

[KJJ]

What do you mean by "talented"? Isn't being more physical being more talented? Or does that link back to coaching, mental toughness, and discipline too?

At this point your going to need to define and describe what you mean by "talent". Is it just the stuff we can see at like, the combine, for instance? The pure measurables?

And even the beat writers over at the site that shall remain nameless scoffed at the bleacher report early last year saying the Cowboys were top 3 in talent in the NFL. Top 10? Maybe they said.

Which sounds about right to me. Seeing Dak is just on the high side of average. Stat padding none withstanding.

Talented and physical or two different things. A player can be stronger than another player but it doesn’t mean they’re more talented. Muhammad Ali fought fighters that were stronger and punched harder but they weren’t more talented/skillful. The Cowboys were listed as the third most talented roster entering the 2021 season according to this ranking. I doubt you’ll find a ranking where they’re not ranked at least in the top 10 amongst talented rosters. No one is going to change your opinion we’re just wasting time.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-7-most-talented-rosters-entering-2021-season

 

[DenCWBY]

Stafford is a nice story but he's no where even close to being a gold jacket.

Stafford has never made the day 1 pro bowl roster in his entire career, he's been a solid QB but that's very telling (no all-pros, never lead the league in any category, never made the day 1 pro bowl roster).

Pro bowl = Popularity contest. Means nothing. It's a clown show.

 

[jaythecowboy]

1st pick was 3rd and 14 and not a bad idea to throw to the endzone and hope for the best.2nd pick should of been caught and bounced off wr’s hands.

Weren't they in field goal range on the 1st pick?

 

[Cboyfan4ever]

Weren't they in field goal range on the 1st pick?

They were close to fg range. I believe they were around the 47 or the 43,but there was nothing open and he was under pressure.Just trying to make something out of nothing.

 

[IceStar-D7]

After spending 12 years in a dormant franchise he’s finally provided an opportunity with a better team and coaching staff. What a difference it makes. And he made the most of it.

It reminds what Jim Plunkett, Steve Young and Doug Williams did going to a better team and winning a championship.

Too many times good QB’s aren’t afforded being on better teams. The personal numbers over the years supported Stafford was better than the teams he was on and this confirms it.

I'd say better organization. Not named Dallas. Dak probably could win a Super Bowl or two outside of Dallas. Many ex players have once they got out of Jerryville. Or at least made it to a Super Bowl.

 

[Tussinman]

It's a clown show.

Eh not really. 90% of the controversy is the late January alternate selections which isn't even what i'm referring too

Almost every single player that makes the Day 1 roster also makes either the NFL top 100 or All-pro team, neither of which have fan voting.

Means nothing

There's a reason why you rarely see modern players with less than 5 pro bowls in the hall of fame, it's basically the base-line entry level accolade. Stafford doesn't have the entry level accolade let alone any of the major ones (all-pro team, MVP, Passing leader in rating yards or touchdowns, no all-decade team despite playing the entire decade).

Pro bowl = Popularity contest

Not buying that, especially for QB which is one of the most respected positions regardless of what team you play for.

Phillip Rivers played for a bottom 10 organization in both playoff success and popularity and yet he still made the day 1 roster 8x.......

 

[Swagger]

Stafford did everything he could to throw the game away yesterday (albeit he did make some good throws). It's been a long time since the team that lost the turnover battle won that game.

In reality the first interception was effectively an arm punt, worse case scenario he gave the Bengals 5-10 yards better field possession on their next possession. It was well worth going for the TD given the offense were not in field goal range. The second interception was more on the receiver but they didn't have a tight end or Beckham by that point so when the back ups are called upon to make plays, that can happen. Stafford was excellent and led the offense to a game winning drive, including beating double coverage with an exceptional throw. Sounds like you were watching a different game.

 

[Swagger]

2007 and 2014 suggest your whimsical memory of those days isn't accurate.

The 2014 team had a poor defense. No QB would have won the SB with that team. 2007...well sadly he couldn't catch his own pass - Crayton stopped his route for a walk in TD to beat the eventual SB champions. You don't get countless opportunities to continually throw dimes to win a game, those opportunities are few and far between and need to be caught. Ask Brady and Wes Welker.

 

[ghst187]

Stafford did everything he could to throw the game away yesterday (albeit he did make some good throws). It's been a long time since the team that lost the turnover battle won that game.

yeah I’d say the Rams won despite Stafford instead of because of him. Stafford is surrounded by generational players…I still wouldn’t put him in the top five or top tier of QBs… second tier of muddled order.
Minus Aaron Donald, Stafford would still be ringless

 

[Swagger]

Stafford only made one bad throw when he failed to hit Van Jefferson at the end of the first half which would have resulted in a field goal or even a shot at a TD. Even that wasn't an easy throw but one that a QB as good as Stafford would probably expect himself to make. That aside, he played an excellent game and was on the money. The interceptions have been explained above.

 

[Cmac]

The Rams won that game yesterday because of their DL performance in the 4th quarter. They simply overwhelmed Cincy's OL.

Stafford wasn't all that for most of the game. But at the end of the day, he was "good enough". So Kudos.

.....and has a ring coming to show people.

 

[willia451]

Talented and physical or two different things. A player can be stronger than another player but it doesn’t mean they’re more talented. Muhammad Ali fought fighters that were stronger and punched harder but they weren’t more talented/skillful. The Cowboys were listed as the third most talented roster entering the 2021 season according to this ranking. I doubt you’ll find a ranking where they’re not ranked at least in the top 10 amongst talented rosters. No one is going to change your opinion we’re just wasting time.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-7-most-talented-rosters-entering-2021-season

No we're not. We're having a discussion. A well-mannered and enjoyable one at that where both sides are keeping their emotions in check. So thank you for that. It's so rare these days. Kudos to you. That bleacher report article I also listed. And at how the beat writers at that other site responded to it.

I would argue that physicality is a subset of talent.

But whatever.

I believe your point is well-taken. Which is why I've been trying to peel back the onion layers to try to get at its core.

I think my point is well-taken as well.

It really can be both. And probably is.

I enjoyed our discussion. Thank you.

 

[jwitten82]

He throws too many INT’s to be an elite QB. He had 2 INT’s in the Super Bowl. He puts up elite numbers but he’s too mistake prone. He’s blessed with a really good team around him with a number of playmakers. He had three straight games this season with a pick-six. He had a couple of dreadful games this season that were worse than any Dak had. His numbers in the Super Bowl were far from eye-popping.

He's an elite QB, if Brett Favre can be considered an elite QB with the amount of turnovers he had throughout his career than Stafford is definitely elite. He had a great playoff run, this Superbowl win puts him in the HOF. He has the numbers for it with being the fastest player to reach 45,000 yards passing and 323 touchdowns- 161 interceptions,

 

[BleedinBlue]

He's an elite QB, if Brett Favre can be considered an elite QB with the amount of turnovers he had throughout his career than Stafford is definitely elite. He had a great playoff run, this Superbowl win puts him in the HOF. He has the numbers for it with being the fastest player to reach 45,000 yards passing and 323 touchdowns- 161 interceptions,

He's 12th in yards right now but if he plays 3 or 4 more years he will be in the top 5 , with many more TD's