Video: Is physicality the Cowboys top priority in the Draft - Shan & RJ

[Cowboyny]

LVE was actually playing really well late last season.
- I don't know how a neck injury impacts the ability to run, but he looks like Frankenstein early in the season but started to look more like his rookie self late in the season.

Fans that hate him last season overlooked the fact that Quinn played him as a stack-and-shed LB instead of run-and-hit like he played under Marinelli.
- Stack-and-shed is basically the equivalent of 2-gap for a DLineman.
- A stack-and-shed LB must give up some ground to blocks by OLinemen in order to avoid getting boxed out horizontally.
- LVE playing stack-and-shed (think 2-gap) allowed Parsons to play as a rover without rigidly defined gap assignments.
- By the end of the season LVE looked good in man coverage on TEs and also had some pass rush snaps from an outside alignment.
- They would have struggled without him because Neal had no chance to play stack-and-shed.
- Even is Jabril Cox had not been injured, he is not a stack-and-shed type either.
- Without LVE, they would have been forced to use Parsons in that role on run downs which would have limited his effectiveness.

When looking a LBs in the draft, remember that in Quinn's defense, there are 2 distinctly different LB positions in terms of the LB that plays with Parsons.
- Note: Quinn rarely even played 3 LBs unless Parsons was replacing a DE.
- As the Nakobe Dean video pointed out, Leo Chenal is a stack-and-shed type and Dean is the run-and-hit coverage type.
- Quinn might move Dean to SS on run downs and LB on passing downs.

The need is just a two down linebacker who can better handle this stack and shed role that Lve currently fills. Chenal is the perfect fit, but they may want to address this need more of day 3. These old schooled type of linebackers aren't valued any more, so you can still get quality later on. We did draft Hitchens in the 4th rd, where he was best against the run. A similar player can be found.

 

[xwalker]

The need is just a two down linebacker who can better handle this stack and shed role that Lve currently fills. Chenal is the perfect fit, but they may want to address this need more of day 3. These old schooled type of linebackers aren't valued any more, so you can still get quality later on. We did draft Hitchens in the 4th rd, where he was best against the run. A similar player can be found.

That's why LVE has more value that fans believe. He can cover TEs in man. Most stack-and-shed types struggle in that area.

 

[kskboys]

That's why LVE has more value that fans believe. He can cover TEs in man. Most stack-and-shed types struggle in that area.

Yup. As long as we don't have to overpay, LVE is a good player.

 

[xwalker]

It's been a while but on the play I'm thinking of Poe out quicked Frederick with a lateral move and went right around him. There wasn't really a bull rush pretty much a free run.

Do you remember if Poe was with KC, Atlanta or Carolina?

2013: KC
2017: Atlanta
2018: Carolina

The one I remember was with Martin on the team which rules out KC.

 

[stilltheguru]

Leo Chenal. Where do you think he gets drafted?

With regards to Dean:
I would not want to be a GM that bypasses Dean; however, I would not want to be the GM that drafts him on day 1.

If Deans falls to day 2 then it's an easy pick, IMO.

I think he goes round 2 easily. He's a dawg. That play in the video should have Cowboy fans drooling but what do I know.

And @Cowboyny you can say his type of lb is played out. Ask the Saints if it's played out. Their run d isn't top tier because of their dts. It's because of Demario Davis. We like weakness in Dallas

 

[morasp]

Do you remember if Poe was with KC, Atlanta or Carolina?

2013: KC
2017: Atlanta
2018: Carolina

The one I remember was with Martin on the team which rules out KC.

It must have been the Chiefs, Poe was the NT for them the year Fredrick was drafted and we played them the second game of the season.

 

[kskboys]

To me, it felt like the Garrett regime went out if it’s way to chase those guys OUT.

Garrett focused on his OL's having quickness. However, the only way to generally get quickness and strength is to go after them in rounds 1 n 2. He was so focused on this one aspect, we ended up w/ OL's who got beat at the LOS due to lack of strength.

 

[Cowboyny]

That's why LVE has more value that fans believe. He can cover TEs in man. Most stack-and-shed types struggle in that area.

Yes, they come off the field in obvious passing situations. Lve for 3 million is perhaps one of their best signings thus far.

 

[fivetwos]

Has Green played any tackle? Does he have the ability to do so at the NFL level in time?

If not, does that make Zion Johnson a better pick given his versatility?

Green seems to be rated higher in general.

I have a very strong feeling that they will like the ability to move Johnson around in future years as we deal with Smith and Martin retiring.

 

[xwalker]

It's been a while but on the play I'm thinking of Poe out quicked Frederick with a lateral move and went right around him. There wasn't really a bull rush pretty much a free run.

I found the play.

It was 2013 game 2 (Frederick's rookie season). The 4th play of drive #1 (2nd and 9).
- It was Poe's 1 All-Pro season.
- Frederick took the normal 2 steps back pass set but then lunged forward toward Poe.
- Frederick missed with his punch and Poe looked like Aaron Donald blowing past Frederick straight to Romo.

The previous play was a run with Frederick and Bernadeau double-teaming Poe.
- Poe tossed Frederick to the ground on that play.

Poe appeared to be about 30 pounds lighter than he was when he played for the Cowboys in 2020.
- He had freak physical ability but never really lived up to his draft status due to a tendency to be overweight and a tad bit lazy.
- He made 2nd team All-Pro in 2013 and made the Pro Bowl in 2013 and 2014.
- Most other seasons he would flash but was just average overall.
- In 2020 he came to camp over-weight and during the season would just lean on OLinemen until the play was over.

 

[morasp]

Has Green played any tackle? Does he have the ability to do so at the NFL level in time?

If not, does that make Zion Johnson a better pick given his versatility?

Green seems to be rated higher in general.

I have a very strong feeling that they will like the ability to move Johnson around in future years as we deal with Smith and Martin retiring.

Yes, he played LT, LG, RG, and RT. I'm not an offensive line scout but the Lance Z. writeup called Johnson a phone booth guard. In other words he is limited in space things like pulling and making blocks on the run, handling twist and stunts, and even making reach blocks could be an issue.

 

[morasp]

I found the play.

It was 2013 game 2 (Frederick's rookie season). The 4th play of drive #1 (2nd and 9).
- It was Poe's 1 All-Pro season.
- Frederick took the normal 2 steps back pass set but then lunged forward toward Poe.
- Frederick missed with his punch and Poe looked like Aaron Donald blowing past Frederick straight to Romo.

The previous play was a run with Frederick and Bernadeau double-teaming Poe.
- Poe tossed Frederick to the ground on that play.

Poe appeared to be about 30 pounds lighter than he was when he played for the Cowboys in 2020.
- He had freak physical ability but never really lived up to his draft status due to a tendency to be overweight and a tad bit lazy.
- He made 2nd team All-Pro in 2013 and made the Pro Bowl in 2013 and 2014.
- Most other seasons he would flash but was just average overall.
- In 2020 he came to camp over-weight and during the season would just lean on OLinemen until the play was over.

Wow that's good work. At least I didn't imagine it.

 

[Cowboyny]

Has Green played any tackle? Does he have the ability to do so at the NFL level in time?

If not, does that make Zion Johnson a better pick given his versatility?

Green seems to be rated higher in general.

I have a very strong feeling that they will like the ability to move Johnson around in future years as we deal with Smith and Martin retiring.

Both Green and Zion has positional flex, but are viewed more as interior players on the next level. Certainly, if mass injuries occur, they could play Tackle in a pinch. I know Green started 1 game at Center and Zion was trying the position for the 1st time at the Senior Bowl with mixed results. If you notice, there was a picture of our OL Coach having Green taking snaps.

 

[kskboys]

I found the play.

It was 2013 game 2 (Frederick's rookie season). The 4th play of drive #1 (2nd and 9).
- It was Poe's 1 All-Pro season.
- Frederick took the normal 2 steps back pass set but then lunged forward toward Poe.
- Frederick missed with his punch and Poe looked like Aaron Donald blowing past Frederick straight to Romo.

The previous play was a run with Frederick and Bernadeau double-teaming Poe.
- Poe tossed Frederick to the ground on that play.

Poe appeared to be about 30 pounds lighter than he was when he played for the Cowboys in 2020.
- He had freak physical ability but never really lived up to his draft status due to a tendency to be overweight and a tad bit lazy.
- He made 2nd team All-Pro in 2013 and made the Pro Bowl in 2013 and 2014.
- Most other seasons he would flash but was just average overall.
- In 2020 he came to camp over-weight and during the season would just lean on OLinemen until the play was over.

I was surprised to hear people still calling for him right before we signed him, as he hadn't been good in years. Never lived up to his physical ability. Just the name, I guess.

 

[xwalker]

Has Green played any tackle? Does he have the ability to do so at the NFL level in time?

If not, does that make Zion Johnson a better pick given his versatility?

Green seems to be rated higher in general.

I have a very strong feeling that they will like the ability to move Johnson around in future years as we deal with Smith and Martin retiring.

Green played OT at times in college but he is a Guard-only in the NFL.

The only game footage of Zion that I could find at OC was the Senior Bowl.
- His snaps looked good, both shotgun and QB under center.
- There was one shotgun snap that was about at the QB belly button and the QB tried to quickly catch it and handoff but ended up fumbling.
- The QB appeared to prefer the snap up about neck high but any snap between belt-high and head-high should be handled by the QB.

I'm far more interested in drafting an interior OL if he can also play OC or is a legit option at OT.
- If the Cowboys believe Zion is an option at OC, then I think that could put him ahead of Green.
- The wildcard is Tyler Smith. He has elite physical ability even at LT but his technique is non-existent and he had far too many penalties because due to lack of technique.
- He has similar power to Green/Zion but far better athleticism.

 

[xwalker]

Both Green and Zion has positional flex, but are viewed more as interior players on the next level. Certainly, if mass injuries occur, they could play Tackle in a pinch. I know Green started 1 game at Center and Zion was trying the position for the 1st time at the Senior Bowl with mixed results. If you notice, there was a picture of our OL Coach having Green taking snaps.

Being able to play OC vs OG only is a huge plus in any interior OL's favor.

Do you know which game Green played OC?

 

[fivetwos]

Both Green and Zion has positional flex, but are viewed more as interior players on the next level. Certainly, if mass injuries occur, they could play Tackle in a pinch. I know Green started 1 game at Center and Zion was trying the position for the 1st time at the Senior Bowl with mixed results. If you notice, there was a picture of our OL Coach having Green taking snaps.

Barring a CD Lamb style slide for one of the Georgia defenders or J Johnson, I strongly feel that one of Green or Zion is the pick.

We've heard zero about veteran pickups along the OL, so either they didn't watch at all last season or they plan on using a high pick there.

I'm not sure we have a guaranteed starter at LG if pick 24 isnt used there. You'd know better than I.

 

[xwalker]

I was surprised to hear people still calling for him right before we signed him, as he hadn't been good in years. Never lived up to his physical ability. Just the name, I guess.

The hope was that his previous couple of years were due to an injury issue and that he was finally 100% healthy at the point the Cowboys signed him.

Not having an off-season doomed any chance of him being in shape for the season.

 

[xwalker]

Barring a CD Lamb style slide for one of the Georgia defenders or J Johnson, I strongly feel that one of Green or Zion is the pick.

We've heard zero about veteran pickups along the OL, so either they didn't watch at all last season or they plan on using a high pick there.

I'm not sure we have a guaranteed starter at LG if pick 24 isnt used there. You'd know better than I.

I keep expecting them to sign a low cost veteran like Trai Turner.

Stephen Jones likes to have veteran options at all positions to avoid forcing a pick in the draft.

 

[fivetwos]

Being able to play OC vs OG only is a huge plus in any interior OL's favor.

Do you know which game Green played OC?

I read that Zion played some tackle at BC.

They had him at C in the Senior Bowl.

That versatility is a huge asset and I'm sure the team will see it that way. Of course we would rather have a much better player that's less versatile.

Hence the questions.