Pass Rush Win Rate for Early DEs

[cnuball21]

Per PFF:

2021 @PFF pass-rush win rates (no screens, PA or designed rollouts):

Kingsley Enagbare: 40%

Aidan Hutchinson: 33%
Nik Bonitto: 33%
Arnold Ebiketie: 32%
Kayvon Thibodeaux: 30%
George Karlaftis: 29%

Boye Mafe: 25%
David Ojabo: 23%

Jermaine Johnson II: 17%

Travon Walker: 11%

Man I wish Kingsley would’ve tested better…I also still think Walker is getting overrated. I love the traits but there isn’t a lot of production backing up all the top 10 talk.

 

[cowboyec]

kingsley has that insane pterodactyl wing span quinn likes.
he could be our edge at 56.
love his size.

 

[Kolemmitt]

Thanks for posting! Do you have the win rate for Sam Williams?

 

[Cowboyny]

Per PFF:

2021 @PFF pass-rush win rates (no screens, PA or designed rollouts):

Kingsley Enagbare: 40%

Aidan Hutchinson: 33%
Nik Bonitto: 33%
Arnold Ebiketie: 32%
Kayvon Thibodeaux: 30%
George Karlaftis: 29%

Boye Mafe: 25%
David Ojabo: 23%

Jermaine Johnson II: 17%

Travon Walker: 11%

Man I wish Kingsley would’ve tested better…I also still think Walker is getting overrated. I love the traits but there isn’t a lot of production backing up all the top 10 talk.

Randy Gregory had a high win rate last yr and many said he was overrated.

Still believe if 1 of the top 5 Edge is available at 24, the Cowboys would take him, but really feel the sweet spot will be in rd 2 to draft a 2nd tier Edge, rather then reach in rd 1.

 

[tm1119]

As with most things from PFF…this is completely subjective. I’d like to see how these “wins” are calculated. If he beats the OT but is 2 steps too slow to impact the play does it really matter?

I’ve watched a decent amount of Kingsley and this doesn’t pass a simple eye test. Especially watching him at the senior bowl. 40% pass rushing win rate and had 4.5 sacks?

 

[cnuball21]

As with most things from PFF…this is completely subjective. I’d like to see how these “wins” are calculated. If he beats the OT but is 2 steps too slow to impact the play does it really matter?

I’ve watched a decent amount of Kingsley and this doesn’t pass a simple eye test. Especially watching him at the senior bowl. 40% pass rushing win rate and had 4.5 sacks?

It’s essentially beating your blocking very quickly (within 2.5 seconds I believe).

Pressures, hits and metrics like these are important because sacks aren’t always just the rusher winning.

 

[cnuball21]

Randy Gregory had a high win rate last yr and many said he was overrated.

Still believe if 1 of the top 5 Edge is available at 24, the Cowboys would take him, but really feel the sweet spot will be in rd 2 to draft a 2nd tier Edge, rather then reach in rd 1.

Thats probably bc people still use sacks as the end all be all which is wild to me seeing as there is so much great data out there.

Clearly he is not as Denver just gave him a massive contract.

 

[Cowboyny]

Thats probably bc people still use sacks as the end all be all which is wild to me seeing as there is so much great data out there.

Clearly he is not as Denver just gave him a massive contract.

They decided to pay him over Von Miller, which could be very telling.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Thats probably bc people still use sacks as the end all be all which is wild to me seeing as there is so much great data out there.

Clearly he is not as Denver just gave him a massive contract.

There’s definitely data out there, but I don’t know how great it is.

I agree with tm1119; if you have a 50% “win” rate and it doesn’t result in more than 4.5 sacks, something is off.

 

[cnuball21]

There’s definitely data out there, but I don’t know how great it is.

I agree with tm1119; if you have a 50% “win” rate and it doesn’t result in more than 4.5 sacks, something is off.

Teams game planing against the player, quick throws, roll outs away from the pressure or just straight up outliers.

Enagbares athletic profile has him dropped down for the list for me but for a guy like Karlaftis I have zero concerns around his sack total last year whatsoever.

I think it should all be part of the puzzle.

 

[tm1119]

It’s essentially beating your blocking very quickly (within 2.5 seconds I believe).

Pressures, hits and metrics like these are important because sacks aren’t always just the rusher winning.

I don’t know if you can find those stats for college, but I’m still doubting they’d be great for Kingsley. Have you watched him and came away impressed with his pass rush?

I’m not saying Kingsley can’t play, but this is 1 of many PFF stats like this that just don’t pass the sniff test. Someone would have to sit me down and show on tape where he’s impacting nearly every other passing play.

I would like Kingsley a lot more if he bulked up. If he could get to 270-275 I could see him being a Boogie Basham type prospect from last year. A SDE with above average pass rush ability, instead of a 258 WDE with below average pass rush ability (imo)

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Teams game planing against the player, quick throws, roll outs away from the pressure or just straight up outliers.

Enagbares athletic profile has him dropped down for the list for me but for a guy like Karlaftis I have zero concerns around his sack total last year whatsoever.

I think it should all be part of the puzzle.

I meant 40% btw.

I keep saying it but Karlaftis per game sack and TFL rate are better than Hutchinson.

 

[cnuball21]

I don’t know if you can find those stats for college, but I’m still doubting they’d be great for Kingsley. Have you watched him and came away impressed with his pass rush?

I’m not saying Kingsley can’t play, but this is 1 of many PFF stats like this that just don’t pass the sniff test. Someone would have to sit me down and show on tape where he’s impacting nearly every other passing play.

I would like Kingsley a lot more if he bulked up. If he could get to 270-275 I could see him being a Boogie Basham type prospect from last year. A SDE with above average pass rush ability, instead of a 258 WDE with below average pass rush ability (imo)

Thats exactly what PFF does…they have teams that do the same thing for college that they do for the NFL.

And yes, I’ve watched him. His tape against UGA is a pretty good indicator of the metric vs sack total. He had .5 a sack - but they were running it all over and getting a lot of quick passes out. Still plenty of plus reps of him winning the rep or eating double teams.

 

[Malhavoc]

They decided to pay him over Von Miller, which could be very telling.

Randy Gregory isn’t remotely as good as Von Miller. Miller was overpaid. You can make an argument that Gregory has done little to justify his contract but it is what it is.

 

[Risen Star]

Per PFF:

2021 @PFF pass-rush win rates (no screens, PA or designed rollouts):

Kingsley Enagbare: 40%

Aidan Hutchinson: 33%
Nik Bonitto: 33%
Arnold Ebiketie: 32%
Kayvon Thibodeaux: 30%
George Karlaftis: 29%

Boye Mafe: 25%
David Ojabo: 23%

Jermaine Johnson II: 17%

Travon Walker: 11%

Man I wish Kingsley would’ve tested better…I also still think Walker is getting overrated. I love the traits but there isn’t a lot of production backing up all the top 10 talk.

Which is exactly Kiper's stance on Walker. Great ability but not as productive as he should have been.

Whereas Jeremiah and Brugler love him and think it's possible he could even be the 1st overall pick.

 

[Cowboyny]

Randy Gregory isn’t remotely as good as Von Miller. Miller was overpaid. You can make an argument that Gregory has done little to justify his contract but it is what it is.

They could of brought Miller back

 

[Malhavoc]

They could of brought Miller back

They could have but at a much higher price. If Denver thinks Gregory is a better player than Miller more power to them.

 

[cnuball21]

Randy Gregory isn’t remotely as good as Von Miller. Miller was overpaid. You can make an argument that Gregory has done little to justify his contract but it is what it is.

The contract was due to age and talent level.

They could’ve overpaid for Miller hoping he still has a good season or 2 left or pay a player in his prime and in his 20s.

 

[Malhavoc]

The contract was due to age and talent level.

They could’ve overpaid for Miller hoping he still has a good season or 2 left or pay a player in his prime and in his 20s.

It would have to be on his talent and age because he’s done nothing from a performance standpoint to justify the deal. Dude took his money and I’m happy for him. But I have no problem with Jerry walking away from the deal because there is some real risk with the player. And heck if he didn’t have a somewhat productive year last year most would have written him off as a complete bust.

 

[cnuball21]

It would have to be on his talent and age because he’s done nothing from a performance standpoint to justify the deal. Dude took his money and I’m happy for him. But I have no problem with Jerry walking away from the deal because there is some real risk with the player. And heck if he didn’t have a somewhat productive year last year most would have written him off as a complete bust.

Im sure the Broncos we’re looking at more than just a sack number when evaluating him.