CFZ How Zeke in a new role would help us WIN more

[RonnieT24]

Yah, I am sure that Moore is looking for backs that run poorly and block great.

I think this is my favorite quote of yours yet. You cant possibly believe this nonsense.

"so the running backs block a lot more than they run."

So what in your estimation are the backs doing on those 45-50 snaps a game when the Cowboys drop back to pass?

 

[RonnieT24]

But Emmitt rarely had over 50 yards at the half. He was a 4th quarter player. By carry 20, him and our OL had worn down the opposing defense allowing Emmitt to start ripping off bigger runs and cementing games.

The NFL is now all about player safety and RBs don't play with some of the injuries Emmitt played through.

This gets lost among all the Zeke hate that keeps flying around. Zeke is no longer allowed to wear defenses down like he did early in his career because the Cowboys have simply changed how they want to play offense. He sat out more than a full game's worth of 4th quarters because the games were in hand and he spent a ton of 4th quarters blocking in the passing game while we played catchup or in many cases, while Moore acted as if a 6 or 7 point deficit was insurmountable without passing every down. I refuse to blame Zeke for any of that and that fact seems to bother some people.. Too bad..

 

[G2]

The Cowboys pass a lot more than they run .. so the running backs block a lot more than they run.
Pollard misses more blitz pickups.
Pollard is more likely to rush for less than 3 ypc than Elliott is
In half their games Pollard averages the same or fewer ypc than Elliott does..

You're right.. those pesky facts refuse to go away to suit your agenda.

Dallas in 2021:
Passing attempts - 9th in the NFL
Rushing attempts - 7th in the NFL (W/ Elliott, 43rd w/ Pollard).

 

[atlantacowboy]

This gets lost among all the Zeke hate that keeps flying around. Zeke is no longer allowed to wear defenses down like he did early in his career because the Cowboys have simply changed how they want to play offense. He sat out more than a full game's worth of 4th quarters because the games were in hand and he spent a ton of 4th quarters blocking in the passing game while we played catchup or in many cases, while Moore acted as if a 6 or 7 point deficit was insurmountable without passing every down. I refuse to blame Zeke for any of that and that fact seems to bother some people.. Too bad..

Zeke had a bad knee for half the season, but I think you are correct about him playing over Pollard b/c of his ability to block. Pollard is more explosive and more likely to rip a long one but you can't have a 15M RB parked on the bench with 12 carries. The day we signed Zeke to that huge extension should have been the day we committed to making the run the focal point of the offense. But, we have a young whipper snapper at OC trying to look smart as he uses the cowboy offense to build his resume' for head coaching jobs......and Jerry just feeds it by neglecting the DL and doubling down on pass catchers every year.

 

[RonnieT24]

Dallas in 2021:
Passing attempts - 9th in the NFL
Rushing attempts - 7th in the NFL (W/ Elliott, 43rd w/ Pollard).

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The Cowboys attempted 647 passes and gave up 33 sacks.. meaning they snapped the ball with the intent to pass at least 680 times. Add in another 10-15 QB scrambles and you're talking almost 700 "intended" pass plays.. They ran the ball 473 times.. A good 10-15 of those were end of game/half kneel downs. And again another 10-15 were QB scrambles so "intended" running plays come in at somewhere around 450. Where they rank in relation to the rest of the NFL is immaterial given that they had 6 or 7 games when they entered the 4th quarter ahead by two or more scores and basically handed off to backup running backs the rest of the game until kneel down time. And oh yeah.. the point stands that they pass it a LOT more than they run it.

 

[G2]

Zeke had a bad knee for half the season, but I think you are correct about him playing over Pollard b/c of his ability to block. Pollard is more explosive and more likely to rip a long one but you can't have a 15M RB parked on the bench with 12 carries. The day we signed Zeke to that huge extension should have been the day we committed to making the run the focal point of the offense. But, we have a young whipper snapper at OC trying to look smart as he uses the cowboy offense to build his resume' for head coaching jobs......and Jerry just feeds it by neglecting the DL and doubling down on pass catchers every year.

Who's fault is it for running with our 2 best RBs while injured and not bringing in any help?
On top of that, we still haven't addressed it in FA or the draft.
I have a hard time buying into the idea tah Elliott stayed in to block.

 

[RonnieT24]

Zeke had a bad knee for half the season, but I think you are correct about him playing over Pollard b/c of his ability to block. Pollard is more explosive and more likely to rip a long one but you can't have a 15M RB parked on the bench with 12 carries. The day we signed Zeke to that huge extension should have been the day we committed to making the run the focal point of the offense. But, we have a young whipper snapper at OC trying to look smart as he uses the cowboy offense to build his resume' for head coaching jobs......and Jerry just feeds it by neglecting the DL and doubling down on pass catchers every year.

This is the biggest problem the franchise has IMHO. Not that they signed Zeke to a big number but that they did so apparently not knowing that their new boy genius never had any intention of using him the way the contract would suggest. The Cowboys will never get any value from Zeke's contract if they won't give him the ball except for 10-12 plunges into the teeth of the defense every game along with 40 pass protection snaps a game. It was a bad move by Jerry and he can't fix the Zeke contract mistake until after this season but he could have fixed the Moore fiasco by simply empowering McCarthy to take the clipboard away from him. What Jerry SHOULD have done after he signed Zeke was offer Bill Callahan the OC job or lure Norv out of retirement with a fat paycheck and let's play smash mouth football. Doing so not only probably would have won us more games but it probably would have saved him about 50 million on the totality of Dak's contract. Because the whole damn team would not be built on him.. it would be built on Zeke in the line.

 

[RonnieT24]

Who's fault is it for running with our 2 best RBs while injured and not bringing in any help?
On top of that, we still haven't addressed it in FA or the draft.
I have a hard time buying into the idea tah Elliott stayed in to block.

Well he sure as hell didn't stay in to run it given that he averaged about 12 carries a game over the last half of the season.. including single digit totes in 4 of the final 8 games. As for whose fault it is? Who is calling the plays? Who sets the starting lineup of the offense?

 

[G2]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The Cowboys attempted 647 passes and gave up 33 sacks.. meaning they snapped the ball with the intent to pass at least 680 times. Add in another 10-15 QB scrambles and you're talking almost 700 "intended" pass plays.. They ran the ball 473 times.. A good 10-15 of those were end of game/half kneel downs. And again another 10-15 were QB scrambles so "intended" running plays come in at somewhere around 450. Where they rank in relation to the rest of the NFL is immaterial given that they had 6 or 7 games when they entered the 4th quarter ahead by two or more scores and basically handed off to backup running backs the rest of the game until kneel down time. And oh yeah.. the point stands that they pass it a LOT more than they run it.

Now you're just derailing. "Intended passes?"
I'm convinced that you will say anything to defend Elliott, lol.

 

[G2]

Well he sure as hell didn't stay in to run it given that he averaged about 12 carries a game over the last half of the season.. including single digit totes in 4 of the final 8 games. As for whose fault it is? Who is calling the plays? Who sets the starting lineup of the offense?

 

[RonnieT24]

I remember after the '96 season the Cowboys announced that they were going to be "saving Emmitt for the playoffs" and started trying to mix in more of his backups and lighten his load throughout the game. In '97 his carries went from 327 to 261 and the Cowboys' win total went from 10 to 6. The following year they scrapped that idea and Emmitt's totes went back up to 319 and the Cowboys' win total went from 6 to 10. But I'm sure that was just a coincidence.

 

[Haimerej]

they signed Zeke to a big number but that they did so apparently not knowing that their new boy genius never had any intention of using him the way the contract would suggest... he could have fixed the Moore fiasco by simply empowering McCarthy to take the clipboard away from him.

What makes you think McCarthy would or even wants to run the ball more? None of his teams have ever been run heavy.

 

[RonnieT24]

What makes you think McCarthy would or even wants to run the ball more? None of his teams have ever been run heavy.

You're right I don't know.. But McCarthy himself stated on more than one occasion that he never had a back like Zeke in Green Bay. He may also recognize that being too pass happy was a big reason why his teams were unable to stand up to more physical teams come playoff time. And probably why he eventually got run out of town.

But check out these pass run differentials from his better teams:

2010 - 541 pass 421 run +119 (Super Bowl Champs)
2011 - 552 pass 395 run +167 ( 15-1 )
2012 - 558 pass 433 run +125
2014 - 536 pass 435 run +101
2015 - 573 pass 436 run +137
2016 - 620 pass 374 run +246 (yikes)

Now look at the Cowboys
2020 - 639 pass 430 run + 209 (again yikes)
2021 - 647 pass 473 run +174

These two seasons with the Cowboys have exceeded all but one of his seasons in Green Bay in terms of pass run discrepancy. I should also point out that 2016 was his last full season in Green Bay and he was canned in the middle of 2017. So did getting pass drunk help him get run out of town? Hell it almost makes sense to be pass heavy when your QB is arguably the best to ever do it. But Andy Dalton and Dak Prescott need to be handing off almost as much as they throw it. They aint Rodgers.. And even Rodgers never scaled the mountain throwing it at a 65/35 clip. As you can see the Packers best seasons under McCarthy were closer to 55/45. We all recognize that today's game is never going to present a lot of 50/50 teams. But it certainly seems like THIS team functions at a much higher level close to 50/50 than it does 70/30. If we get to the Super Bowl with Dak slingin it 650 times and us running it 400 or less then I will change my tune.. Until then.. I want it closer to 550/450.

 

[Haimerej]

You're right I don't know.. But McCarthy himself stated on more than one occasion that he never had a back like Zeke in Green Bay. He may also recognize that being too pass happy was a big reason why his teams were unable to stand up to more physical teams come playoff time. And probably why he eventually got run out of town.

But check out these pass run differentials from his better teams:

2010 - 541 pass 421 run +119 (Super Bowl Champs)
2011 - 552 pass 395 run +167 ( 15-1 )
2012 - 558 pass 433 run +125
2014 - 536 pass 435 run +101
2015 - 573 pass 436 run +137
2016 - 620 pass 374 run +246 (yikes)

Now look at the Cowboys
2020 - 639 pass 430 run + 209 (again yikes)
2021 - 647 pass 473 run +174

These two seasons with the Cowboys have exceeded all but one of his seasons in Green Bay in terms of pass run discrepancy. I should also point out that 2016 was his last full season in Green Bay and he was canned in the middle of 2017. So did getting pass drunk help him get run out of town? Hell it almost makes sense to be pass heavy when your QB is arguably the best to ever do it. But Andy Dalton and Dak Prescott need to be handing off almost as much as they throw it. They aint Rodgers.. And even Rodgers never scaled the mountain throwing it at a 65/35 clip. As you can see the Packers best seasons under McCarthy were closer to 55/45. We all recognize that today's game is never going to present a lot of 50/50 teams. But it certainly seems like THIS team functions at a much higher level close to 50/50 than it does 70/30. If we get to the Super Bowl with Dak slingin it 650 times and us running it 400 or less then I will change my tune.. Until then.. I want it closer to 550/450.

This team was built to run first prior to McCarthy's arrival. It's one of the reasons I was skeptical of his hiring. He came out talking about how they're going to score a lot of points and force the other team to try to keep up. The only way I see McCarthy getting more balanced is getting ahead and trying to run out the clock.

 

[OmerV]

Pollard isn't a starter, can't take the punishment....he didn't even start in college.

That would be my worry - he's a bit on the smaller side and has no history carrying the bulk of the load. To me something close to a 50/50 split would make sense.

 

[OmerV]

You're right I don't know.. But McCarthy himself stated on more than one occasion that he never had a back like Zeke in Green Bay. He may also recognize that being too pass happy was a big reason why his teams were unable to stand up to more physical teams come playoff time. And probably why he eventually got run out of town.

I would say Eddie Lacy in 2013 and 2014 compared very favorably to what we are seeing from Zeke now

 

[RonnieT24]

I would say Eddie Lacy in 2013 and 2014 compared very favorably to what we are seeing from Zeke now

No doubt Lacy was a quality back but he never got above 284 carries under McCarthy. Let's face it, that dude basically ate his way out of the league. It's a good comp though given the way they are using Zeke.. but Lacy was another 25-30 pounds heavier than the current version of Zeke and he was never as fast as Zeke even before his appetite got the better of him. Even in his current state Zeke is a more complete player than Lacy. He already has 4 seasons with more catches than Lacy's high of 42. But I aint mad at the comparison. He was a good back for those two seasons in Green Bay.

 

[OmerV]

No doubt Lacy was a quality back but he never got above 284 carries under McCarthy. Let's face it, that dude basically ate his way out of the league. It's a good comp though given the way they are using Zeke.. but Lacy was another 25-30 pounds heavier than the current version of Zeke and he was never as fast as Zeke even before his appetite got the better of him. Even in his current state Zeke is a more complete player than Lacy. He already has 4 seasons with more catches than Lacy's high of 42. But I aint mad at the comparison. He was a good back for those two seasons in Green Bay.

Zeke hasn't got above 244 carries under McCarthy, and while has had a few more receptions each year under McCarthy than Lacy did, Lacy averaged more yards per reception.

As for Lacy eating his way out of the league, that's true, but I was responding to the idea McCarthy never had a RB in GB that was of the quality of Zeke, and in 2013 & 2014 Lacy was as good, or better, than Zeke has been under McCarthy.

 

[MyFairLady]

I would be happy if we never ever threw another pass in the direction of that fat little money grubbing turd ever again. Even his own mom doesn't defend his on twitter anymore.

 

[CowboyRoy]

So what in your estimation are the backs doing on those 45-50 snaps a game when the Cowboys drop back to pass?

Just give it buddy.