CFZ Basham and Williams Roughing the Passer Flags and Rule

[DallasEast]

Click this link for the complete rule and entire examples video.

In the old days, defensive players could stuff the quarterback. The old days are dead in the NFL. They will never return.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 11, subparagraph b: A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation...

Tackling/sacking the quarterback is a mental exercise in 2022. It's not 1972 anymore. The NFL does not want its quarterbacks pounded through the ground. The rule is an irritation if the player is not intentionally trying to injure the quarterback but not THINKING beforehand will result in a braindead penalty and should fall primarily on the player's shoulders only in my opinion.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 11, subparagragh c: A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture... (2) lowering the head and making forcible contact with any part of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

On the other hand, I believe coaches and player bear equal responsibility for erasing this tendency from inside the player's head. All the player needs to do is keep his head up. You must see who you are going to hit anyway. Eyes up. Less chance of a stupid penalty. Eyes down. Almost always a braindead penalty because the refs do not give a flip what part of the helmet hits ANY part of the quarterback's body.

 

[cowboyec]

personally,i thought both were horse crap.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Both of those plays are a bunch of bunk.

Both Basham and Williams already had come off their last step a split second before hitting the QB right as he had released the pass.

 

[terra]

Roughing the passer penalties will NOT be called for Dallas Cowboys QBs.

THEY WILL BE CALLED On Dallas Cowboys defenders hitting any other QB.

Secret NFL codicil on the Roughing the Passer rules.

 

[DallasEast]

Both of those plays are a bunch of bunk.

Both Basham and Williams already had come off their last step a split second before hitting the QB right as he had released the pass.

Feelings do not matter. Basham's head was up. He drew the penalty because he drove the quarterback into the ground. A simple tackle would have not drawn a flag.

The rule does not care about the split-second anyone perceives either. If Williams went in head up, the flag may not have been thrown.

The team must get a grip on these stupid penalties. Giving the opponent 15 yards and an automatic first down is too much in today's NFL, especially if your defense has not established itself as a dominant unit.

Here's what's worse. Giving a referee an opportunity to subjectively call the hit flagrant gets the player automatically disqualified. Do not give zebras an excuse to permanently sideline a player, especially if it is one of your best players on defense. Don't help refs. They do not care about Dallas winning anyway.

 

[DFWJC]

Williams didn't use his head. He used his shoulder with his head off to the side.
Plus, he even pulled up.

 

[baltcowboy]

Both of those plays are a bunch of bunk.

Both Basham and Williams already had come off their last step a split second before hitting the QB right as he had released the pass.

I think those penalties hurt our pass rush. I really want us to hit Brady opening night but I have a feeling the flags will be flying if we touch him.

 

[Runwildboys]

personally,i thought both were horse crap.

I thought Basham speared him, but Sam's looks clean to me.

 

[Runwildboys]

I think those penalties hurt our pass rush. I really want us to hit Brady opening night but I have a feeling the flags will be flying if we touch him.

Even if we just come near him.

 

[baltcowboy]

Feelings do not matter. Basham's head was up. He drew the penalty because he drove the quarterback into the ground. A simple tackle would have not drawn a flag.

The rule does not care about the split-second anyone perceives either. If Williams went in head up, the flag may not have been thrown.

The team must get a grip on these stupid penalties. Giving the opponent 15 yards and an automatic first down is too much in today's NFL, especially if your defense has not established itself as a dominant unit.

Here's what's worse. Giving a referee an opportunity to subjectively call the hit flagrant gets the player automatically disqualified. Do not give zebras an excuse to permanently sideline a player, especially if it is one of your best players on defense. Don't help refs. They do not care about Dallas winning anyway.

One of the million of things I love about Parsons is he understands the rules and knows how to hit the quarterback. He did have one horse crap call against the Raiders that cost us the game. That is what most fans are worried about.

 

[DallasEast]

Williams didn't use his head. He used his shoulder with his head off to the side.
Plus, he even pulled up.

Williams helmet mostly hit the quarterback's right side of the chest. It was a glancing blow from the helmet but the rule does not care. Neither do the refs.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Feelings do not matter. Basham's head was up. He drew the penalty because he drove the quarterback into the ground. A simple tackle would have not drawn a flag.

The rule does not care about the split-second anyone perceives either. If Williams went in head up, the flag may not have been thrown.

The team must get a grip on these stupid penalties. Giving the opponent 15 yards and an automatic first down is too much in today's NFL, especially if your defense has not established itself as a dominant unit.

Here's what's worse. Giving a referee an opportunity to subjectively call the hit flagrant gets the player automatically disqualified. Do not give zebras an excuse to permanently sideline a player, especially if it is one of your best players on defense. Don't help refs. They do not care about Dallas winning anyway.

No, sir! If you've played the sport, they teach you the proper way to tackle is exactly how Basham hit, wrapped up and tackled the QB. If the NFL doesn't want any defender to tackle any QB, JUST COME OUT AND SAY IT. JUST SAY..."REGARDLESS OF THE RULE OF HOW TO TACKLE, YOU CAN'T TACKLE A QB UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE."

 

[DallasEast]

No, sir! If you've played the sport, they teach you the proper way to tackle is exactly how Basham hit, wrapped up and tackled the QB. If the NFL doesn't want any defender to tackle any QB, JUST COME OUT AND SAY IT. JUST SAY..."REGARDLESS OF THE RULE OF HOW TO TACKLE, YOU CAN'T TACKLE A QB UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE."

A tackler cannot throw any of his weight atop the quarterback. This is 2022 in the NFL. It is not changing.

 

[xwalker]

Click this link for the complete rule and entire examples video.

In the old days, defensive players could stuff the quarterback. The old days are dead in the NFL. They will never return.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 11, subparagraph b: A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation...

Tackling/sacking the quarterback is a mental exercise in 2022. It's not 1972 anymore. The NFL does not want its quarterbacks pounded through the ground. The rule is an irritation if the player is not intentionally trying to injure the quarterback but not THINKING beforehand will result in a braindead penalty and should fall primarily on the player's shoulders only in my opinion.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 11, subparagragh c: A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture... (2) lowering the head and making forcible contact with any part of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

On the other hand, I believe coaches and player bear equal responsibility for erasing this tendency from inside the player's head. All the player needs to do is keep his head up. You must see who you are going to hit anyway. Eyes up. Less chance of a stupid penalty. Eyes down. Almost always a braindead penalty because the refs do not give a flip what part of the helmet hits ANY part of the quarterback's body.

The Cowboys defenders have to find a different method of hitting the QB.

It sucks, but they're going to get penalized if their helmet touches the QB.

 

[Brax]

No, sir! If you've played the sport, they teach you the proper way to tackle is exactly how Basham hit, wrapped up and tackled the QB. If the NFL doesn't want any defender to tackle any QB, JUST COME OUT AND SAY IT. JUST SAY..."REGARDLESS OF THE RULE OF HOW TO TACKLE, YOU CAN'T TACKLE A QB UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE."

You never played obviously and you need to get your eyes checked then get your tin foil hat fitted lol.

 

[DallasEast]

The Cowboys defenders have to find a different method of hitting the QB.

It sucks, but they're going to get penalized if their helmet touches the QB.

It would not be 100% effective against preventing a flag because refs sometimes see what's not there but it is as simple as aiming the bottom of your facemask into the body. That's how coaches taught me many moons ago to help us see what we hit and help avoid jamming our necks while tackling.

 

[speedkilz88]

Williams helmet mostly hit the quarterback's right side of the chest. It was a glancing blow from the helmet but the rule does not care. Neither do the refs.

It literally makes an exception for incidental contact.

This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

 

[DallasEast]

It literally makes an exception for incidental contact.

This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

"Incidental" will be held as subjective by the refs. The appearance of how the tackler is meeting the quarterback is definitive. My hope is that mental work is done before hitting the quarterback to minimize ref's judgment about incidental helmet contact.

 

[America's Cowboy]

A tackler cannot throw any of his weight atop the quarterback. This is 2022 in the NFL. It is not changing.

Basham did not throw his weight on top of the QB. He fell on the QB's legs and torso. That should not have been a foul. There was no driving into the ground either like in the video it is being compared to. Two totally different tackles.

 

[Runwildboys]

Basham did not throw his weight on top of the QB. He fell on the QB's legs and torso. That should not have been a foul. There was no driving into the ground either like in the video it is being compared to. Two totally different tackles.

It looked like he speared the QB, at least in real time.