CFZ Basham and Williams Roughing the Passer Flags and Rule

[DogFace]

I agree, but that doesn't diminish the legitimacy of the call against Basher.

I’m not sure what he’s supposed to do. He can’t stop falling?? I guess he can’t dive at all? What exactly did they say he did wrong?

 

[Runwildboys]

I’m not sure what he’s supposed to do. He can’t stop falling?? I guess he can’t dive at all? What exactly did they say he did wrong?

Leading with the helmet AND driving the QB into the ground. I realize he didn't bury the guy, but it's not a judgement call. He was still on the QB when they hit the ground.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Leading with the helmet AND driving the QB into the ground. I realize he didn't bury the guy, but it's not a judgement call. He was still on the QB when they hit the ground.

So don't touch the QB? This has become a joke. It's no longer tackle football. Might as well put flags on their belts and turn it into flag football.

 

[G2]

No agrees that the rules are awesome so it's up to the players to know and execute the rules. It's up to the staff if this is a habit.
Also, who gives a ****, it's all back ups vs. back ups in a game that doesn't count.

 

[Fastpitch Dad]

Even if we just come near him.

The Brady/Rodgers rule is as bad as the Jordan rule back in the day.

 

[RonWashington]

Under these circumstances then Randy Gregory driving Mac Jones to the ground causing a fumble last yr against NE was “ roughing the passer “ . It gets to the point where when a defender makes any contact with a QB a flag may or may not come out. I think what bothers fans and the defense is how arbitrary and needless this all is .

 

[Runwildboys]

So don't touch the QB? This has become a joke. It's no longer tackle football. Might as well put flags on their belts and turn it into flag football.

So Micah's legal sacks last season weren't exciting?

 

[baltcowboy]

Yes Parsons is very intelligent. He doesn't go for the big hit. He just pushes them down nicely. If both Williams and Basham would not have lowered the boom on the QB he wouldn't have been called.

I agree but you have been taught all your life to hit the quarterback to intimidate them. These rules hurt the essence of football. If the USFL and the XFL want to succeed they need to go back to the old rules. Fans would flock back to it.

 

[JoeKing]

Bash's hit on the QB looked fair to me. If you can't do that to a QB then what are we doing here? If you can't do that then this isn't football anymore.

 

[G2]

When a QBs feet are up off the ground there's probably going to be a flag coming.

 

[America's Cowboy]

So Micah's legal sacks last season weren't exciting?

Most of them weren't tackles. They were drag downs. Is that what you want to see from now on? No more tackle football???

 

[Flamma]

Click this link for the complete rule and entire examples video.

In the old days, defensive players could stuff the quarterback. The old days are dead in the NFL. They will never return.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 11, subparagraph b: A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation...

Tackling/sacking the quarterback is a mental exercise in 2022. It's not 1972 anymore. The NFL does not want its quarterbacks pounded through the ground. The rule is an irritation if the player is not intentionally trying to injure the quarterback but not THINKING beforehand will result in a braindead penalty and should fall primarily on the player's shoulders only in my opinion.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 11, subparagragh c: A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture... (2) lowering the head and making forcible contact with any part of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

On the other hand, I believe coaches and player bear equal responsibility for erasing this tendency from inside the player's head. All the player needs to do is keep his head up. You must see who you are going to hit anyway. Eyes up. Less chance of a stupid penalty. Eyes down. Almost always a braindead penalty because the refs do not give a flip what part of the helmet hits ANY part of the quarterback's body.

I don't see how the Sam Williams hit violated any of those rules. He didn't use his helmet to make forcible contract.

 

[Runwildboys]

Most of them weren't tackles. They were drag downs. Is that what you want to see from now on? No more tackle football???

"Most" of them, maybe. But not all of them,by a long shot. That tells me that the "drag downs" were because that's all he could manage, or just how he chose to do it. He made plenty of tackles, without being flagged, so it's clearly possible to do it.

For everyone who's mad that they want to protect the players (not just the QBs) try to remember, it's a "game".

 

[Runwildboys]

I don't see how the Sam Williams hit violated any of those rules. He didn't use his helmet to make forcible contract.

I agree, Sam's hit looked fine to me too.

 

[America's Cowboy]

"Most" of them, maybe. But not all of them,by a long shot. That tells me that the "drag downs" were because that's all he could manage, or just how he chose to do it. He made plenty of tackles, without being flagged, so it's clearly possible to do it.

For everyone who's mad that they want to protect the players (not just the QBs) try to remember, it's a "game".

Yes, it's a game, but it's also "tackle" football, not "touch" or "flag" football. The main reason people watch the game is for the "tackling".

 

[Runwildboys]

Yes, it's a game, but it's also "tackle" football, not "touch" or "flag" football. The main reason people watch the game is for the "tackling".

And there's plenty of it. Would you be okay with an elbow to the face being a legal hit? How about a clothesline? Kneecap?

If that had been Dak getting speared, would you still be condoning that hit? I don't think so.

 

[America's Cowboy]

And there's plenty of it. Would you be okay with an elbow to the face being a legal hit? How about a clothesline? Kneecap?

If that had been Dak getting speared, would you still be condoning that hit? I don't think so.

Now you're acting dumb simply because you know you are losing the argument. There is a difference between "tackling" and "assaulting".

 

[Runwildboys]

Now you're acting dumb simply because you know you are losing the argument. There is a difference between "tackling" and "assaulting".

I'm acting dumb??? My point is that things like clotheslining used to be let go, but then they started cracking down on it for safety purposes. The same thing applies to spearing and driving the QB to the ground. He's mostly defenseless, being suddenly hit by a man who's usually considerably larger than he is, with a full head of steam. I'm surprised it took as long as it did to start making some of these tackles illegal.

I noticed you didn't answer the question about Dak.

 

[DallasEast]

I don't see how the Sam Williams hit violated any of those rules. He didn't use his helmet to make forcible contract.

That's the thing. None of us are on the field wearing strips in any of the games. The only observation that matters is the ref's. They do not have always have a clear view but still make the call.

The link takes anyone to the full penalty summary, which I did not post. Here's one of the notes at the bottom:

When in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic against the quarterback, the Referee should always call roughing the passer.

It's not tasteful but imagine you are the ref watching Williams hit the quarterback. You are behind both players at an angle but "see":

1. William's head down
2. The quarterback's body "taking a shot", feet taken off the ground, tackler not even wrapping up.

You might not say that is roughing the passer. I may not say it is either. The ref can make the call or leave it as is. He "thinks" it may have been roughing. So, what do you think he (not you or me) may choose to do according to the rule?

 

[DallasEast]

When a QBs feet are up off the ground there's probably going to be a flag coming.

There you go.