Mcginn/Scouts on 2023 qbs

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Another quick summary of mcginns article on todays featured postion group, the qb.

If you want to see a specific qb, let me know...

...Two Hall of Fame inductees, Giants GM George Young and Cowboys coach Tom Landry, are said to have introduced the Wonderlic Personnel Test to the NFL more than 50 years ago as a low-cost, low-fuss way to measure intelligence and predict performance in any job. It remains an active element in the evaluation process.

...The newest thing in judging athletes is S2 Cognition, a business based in Nashville that has been marketing its product to NFL teams for about seven years. And, in interviews with several football executives this month, S2 testing has developed a reputation so strong in the industry that it undoubtedly will affect to some degree how quarterbacks are drafted.

...The S2 website showcases the results of Bengals quarterback Joe Burrow, who was the No. 1 pick in 2020. His total score of 97% was broken down into four sections: 94% on visual learning, 97% in instinctive learning, 97% in impulse control and 93% in improvisation.

According to S2, the 30-to-45 minute exercise is conducted on what The Athletic’s Matt Barrows in February described as a “specially designed gaming laptop and response pad that can record reactions in two milliseconds.” It measures how players process and make split-second decisions. “Anticipating, reading, reacting and adapting to the game are measurable skills,” the website offers.

Multiple sources said Young’s total score was 98% whereas Stroud’s total score was 18%.

Some other total scores in the class of quarterbacks this year were 96% for Fresno State’s Jake Haener, 93% for Kentucky’s Will Levis and Brigham Young’s Jaren Hall, 84% for Houston’s Clayton Tune, 79% for Florida’s Anthony Richardson and 46% for Tennessee’s Hendon Hooker.

“Stroud scored 18,” an executive said. “That is like red alert, red alert, you can’t take a guy like that. That is why I have Stroud as a bust. That in conjunction with the fact, name one Ohio State quarterback that’s ever done it in the league.”

...One NFC executive described the S2 as a “great test.” Said an AFC executive: “For quarterbacks, it’s been pretty good,”

Another executive said S2 made inroads early in its existence testing hitters for major league baseball clubs.

“Then they started doing it in football,” the executive said. “If you get a high score as a quarterback it’s not saying you’re going to be a great player. But if you get a low score, it’s 100% — none of the quarterbacks that got a low score became good players.

“The benchmark is 80. Eighty and above is good. Stroud was 18. It’s incredibly terrible. He’s going to be off (some team’s) boards. He will not be picked by those teams.”

An executive said that Iowa State’s Brock Purdy, the 262nd and final player selected, had the highest S2 score among rookies in 2022.

Despite the S2 results, a survey of 16 evaluators asking them for their choice as the quarterback with the best chance to bust showed Stroud behind Richardson and Levis. The bust vote count was eight for Richardson, five for Levis, two for Stroud and one for Young. In addition, the panel was asked to rank their top quarterbacks on a 1-2-3-4-5 basis, with a first-place vote worth 5 points, a second-place vote worth 4 and so on.

Young, with 10 firsts and 72 points, led the way. He was followed by Stroud (56, two), Levis (46, three), Richardson (40, one), Hooker (20), Max Duggan (two), Haener (two), Tanner McKee (one) and Dorian Thompson-Robinson (one).
 
This is pretty fascinating. Remember a couple months ago when the Cowboys were enamored with Stroud? He could drop quite a ways. Hooked not much better.
 
It seems almost impossible that his number could be that low. Stroud in his college play did not seem to be a slow processor at all, and his Georgia game tape shows the ability to adapt on the fly. Being that this is lying season, I don't know if I buy this.
 
Look at all the the great players who did not have a high wonderlic score. So I have never been all that impressed with it.

All these fancy tests and analytics and so on, you still cannot unscrew the top of a players head and see what is inside.

But most of all you cannot prevent a GM from deciding that he wants this guy and nothing else matters.
 
It seems almost impossible that his number could be that low. Stroud in his college play did not seem to be a slow processor at all, and his Georgia game tape shows the ability to adapt on the fly. Being that this is lying season, I don't know if I buy this.
yeah, he was making me rethink my OSU QB bias the way he played against GA. If true ..... it's mind blowingly bad.
 
Hard to believe Stroud is that bad in all those areas of cognition. This is like when L.Jackson scored a 13 or Claiborne did that too, scored very low in the Wonderlic. Somehow they were able to still play football by a miracle. Point is metrics are great for a lot of people but some are going to subvert the process by not being that easy to assess.
 
It seems almost impossible that his number could be that low. Stroud in his college play did not seem to be a slow processor at all, and his Georgia game tape shows the ability to adapt on the fly. Being that this is lying season, I don't know if I buy this.
His Georgia game was outstanding.

He doesn't seem to be the type to just blow off a test, not caring about the result. so youd have to assume he put in effort.

i dont know much about the relative difference between an 80 and an 18, though. without an understanding of the data, a number lacks meaning beyond low and high.

i had never heard of the s2 or whatever, but its interesting its been used in baseball and football now.
 
I will also say that on the surface, this seems much different than the Wonderlic. This measures a players inherent ability to read and react. seems much more applicable to football than what amounts to an i.q. test
 
Richardson had a completion percentage of 53% last season. How he goes in the first round is beyond me.
 
Richardson had a completion percentage of 53% last season. How he goes in the first round is beyond me.
He is physically gifted. Some team is hoping for a Josh Allen type of leap.
 
It seems almost impossible that his number could be that low. Stroud in his college play did not seem to be a slow processor at all, and his Georgia game tape shows the ability to adapt on the fly. Being that this is lying season, I don't know if I buy this.
I agree, I’ve always been extremely skeptical of Ohio St QBs but Stroud impressed me. He looks incredibly accurate and his TD to INT ratio is fantastic. He played against top competition. Will be interesting to see but another factor is the system and coaches he gets in the NFL. That can also make/break a player, esp a QB.
 
I agree, I’ve always been extremely skeptical of Ohio St QBs but Stroud impressed me. He looks incredibly accurate and his TD to INT ratio is fantastic. He played against top competition. Will be interesting to see but another factor is the system and coaches he gets in the NFL. That can also make/break a player, esp a QB.
I agree.

I don’t know how anyone can watch Strouds tape and Bryce Young’s tape and think Young at 5’10 translates better to the pro game then Stroud.
 
This S2 Cognition testing is interesting.

I would be curious to know how the testing is tailored to individual player situations. This is a paragraph from their website on the measure most closely associated with the higher performing WR’s:

The highest score is Decision Complexity (82), which measures a player's ability to quickly and accurately filter
through "if-then" rules to determine their route.”


They go on to use examples of if-then rules like:

"If the corner drops and the outside backer releases into the flat, I run a 7-yard curl to the sideline." But, "if the corner
presses and the safety plays deep zone, I run a slant across the middle."


If they are using real football examples to determine how players make quick read-react decisions (their words), how do they factor in things like experience? If one receiver has played the position since high school and another converted from CB 2 years ago, would that lack of experience potentially have an influence read-react response times measured in milliseconds? What if the “rules” for the if-then decisions vary depending on the offense run? Does the complexity of the college route trees impact scoring?

I’m not sure what the test looks like but I can see a number of potential questions when trying to apply a standardized average to individual players without some allowances. I wonder to what degree (if any) their excellent prediction claims can be partially influenced by offsetting factors.

This could also be my medical background causing me to over think.
 
This is pretty fascinating. Remember a couple months ago when the Cowboys were enamored with Stroud? He could drop quite a ways. Hooked not much better.
How far is he really going to drop? Still believe he goes within the top 10, same as Richardson. Hooker might be a top 15 player as well.
 
According to S2, the 30-to-45 minute exercise is conducted on what The Athletic’s Matt Barrows in February described as a “specially designed gaming laptop and response pad that can record reactions in two milliseconds.” It measures how players process and make split-second decisions. “Anticipating, reading, reacting and adapting to the game are measurable skills,” the website offers.
Wait, what? A high-powered GPU in a LAPTOP case?? How many milliseconds does it randomly add once it starts overheating? I'd hate to be the guy at the bottom of the signup sheet that day. I'd probably ask to conduct my test in a meat locker, lol.
 
Richardson had a completion percentage of 53% last season. How he goes in the first round is beyond me.
Josh Allen was a 56% passer in college. Accuracy can be coached up and also the structure of the offense matters.

The Gators offense was not exactly a refined machine that employed scripted passing plays, which does impact QB accuracy.
 
The Stroud defamation is reaching extreme levels. Someone is looking for a steal and paying hard for it
 
Josh Allen was a 56% passer in college. Accuracy can be coached up and also the structure of the offense matters.

The Gators offense was not exactly a refined machine that employed scripted passing plays, which does impact QB accuracy.
It HAS happened but its very rare what happened with Allen for him to take such a huge step.

You will find very few pro QBs starting in the league that did not have at least 60% completion percentage in college
 

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