Biggest question mark can this defense improve their run def?

Cowboyny said:
They could of spent fa money to upgrade our run defense, but they chose to go the low budget route again with depth signings. They had an opportunity to draft a high end DT at 12, but decided to add more high resources to our OL where they already had 2 1st rd picks invested.

Last year, Zimmer was begging for DT help and signed every old NT he could find late in fa where no options were left. I understand they have time before the start of the season, but their history suggests all they do is sign aging, low cost veterans year after year without no plan.
Click to expand...
Who was the great DT at 12??
 
Cowboyny said:
They could of spent fa money to upgrade our run defense, but they chose to go the low budget route again with depth signings. They had an opportunity to draft a high end DT at 12, but decided to add more high resources to our OL where they already had 2 1st rd picks invested.

Last year, Zimmer was begging for DT help and signed every old NT he could find late in fa where no options were left. I understand they have time before the start of the season, but their history suggests all they do is sign aging, low cost veterans year after year without no plan.
Click to expand...
Salary cap.
 
Cowboyny said:
Dak doesn't have much either outside of Lamb, yes he has an OL but even that has issues at the Tackle position.
Click to expand...
Dak has Schoonmaker, Ferguson, Lamb, Tolbert who by the way was 3rd round pick and he is a solid #2 Dak just needs to trust him. Dak has a nice pass catching RB in Blue.
Dak made his bed when he demanded this contract and Jerry paid him. QBs getting paid like Dak don't normally have the luxury of having a top tier supporting cast.
We've seen Dak with Martin and Frederick and Zeke and Amari and Lamb and Witten.
And the Cowboys constantly neglect the middle of the defense. It's criminal thinking Dak needs more help.
 
Cowboyny said:
Based on their prior history, they usually draft a late NT and add a low level, aging fa. When this fails, they rush to add street fa's. Until this changes, no reason to expect different results as they just don't make it a priority like the better teams do. Just look at last offseason, they cut their late rd addition (brought him back), forced to make a trade with the Giants to add Phillips, signed over the hill Joseph cause they were so desperate. It is the same cycle year after year with the same results, a poor run defense.
Click to expand...
Well based on a lot of history you wouldn't think a 7th round pick would become a starting quarterback for the 49ers or a sixth round pick be the goat of all goats you wouldn't have thought that an undrafted free agent in Tony Romo or Kurt Warner would have the careers they had sometimes you just keep picking them and one time it's going to stick so before we announce how awful the season is going to be on defense and how we're going to finish worse than 29 how about we just wait and see so we don't have to have a debate like this? What I'm seeing is they have a lot of beef they have a lot of bodies to choose from they can make this an open competition May the best couple win and get a true nose tackle the rest will be cut and then we'll see what this new coaching staff can do so you're still harping on last year this isn't last year this is a brand new coaching staff with a brand new scheme who are now wanting to bring their groceries in and see if they can make a dinner and we're going to find out..

Say this again and and maybe you can't hear me

last year was a failure not because what they didn't do in the offseason there is no amount of names that they could have brought in that could have covered up that mess of injuries we had again is Derek Henry can become Bo Jackson he could have played three defensive spots two offensive spots and maybe even special teams and then we could have brought in Aaron Donald he could have brought played four different positions yeah maybe they could have fixed what happened last year but no I think last year was more of a failure because we had a lame duck first year defensive coordinator they didn't do much at all in free agency at all prior to the draft and then had a bunch of injuries to boot on top of it most of it was all on defense if you act like that didn't happen and that it was only because the lack of all season work and the lack of commitment to getting a running back and a defensive tackle I'm going to tell you how wrong you are because you're being delusional I get it we'll find out this year how this year went...
 
Cowboyny said:
Having issues with the site. I wanted Mykell Williams and either the UCLA LB or Ty Williams and take the other missed in the following rd. Unfortunately, the league saw it the same way and they all went ahead of our picks. Should of drafted either Harmon or Grant at 12, both have potential to become impact DT's.
Click to expand...
Yes the site can be slow loading or lag time it's been weird since right before the draft but I get what you wanted all I'm saying is last year was last year we have a completely different defensive staff in one of these days if you think that we won't hit on one of these defensive tackles or one of the ones we bring in free agency isn't going to work we had this conversation about defensive backs safeties even linebackers and they're starting to pretty much fix those positions so hopefully this gets fixed this year at least on the road to being fixed but I've seen plenty of undrafted free agents or low round picks turn into something I know they keep picking the fruit that's already fallen off the trees but one of these days they're going to find a fresh one and it could work out just like some of the best undrafted free agents a history of football or the low free agents I mentioned in my other post I get what you wanted and they seriously considered Walter Nolan like it was a hard choice for them so at least they were thinking of it.

I'm not making excuses but I'm not going to sit here and act like they're going to finish worse than last year i'm not going to sit here and say they're going to finish better than last year i'm saying put this on hold this is a new year new staff and let's just watch and be entertained we'll discuss this season when it's over and if you are right I'll give you your flowers but I expect the same the injuries we had last year were more of the problem than it was the players that we didn't bring in I realized if we were a 10 win team made the playoffs and were one and done and it was because we didn't address anything that wasn't the case it was over before it started the injuries were early often and all the way till the end of the year you can't expect the year to have gone better anyway in hindsight it didn't matter.

So this year I believe they've done more I think they're allowing the new defensive coordinator the new defensive line coach pick some of these guys and there are people out there that said that Toya whatever his name is and another player we can't spell his name was supposed to be a consensus top one 100 on a lot of people's boards he was worth the top 100 he just got overlooked I don't know if that's true or not but some people say he's a steel because we got him at mid 200 so maybe it is like getting him in the fourth round.?...
 
tomokawan said:
Who was the great DT at 12??
Click to expand...
I don't think there was any great ones but the only one they were considering was Walter Nolan they said it was a hard choice but they went off into line and I was trying to tell him look neither one of us could say either we're going to be good or better or worse than next year we just need to sit and watch and see what happens but that guy we picked up from ucla toila yeah I probably messing up his name was supposed to be in the top 100 on a lot of people's boards so he we got him in the 7th round it seems like a steal to me and maybe he'll be better than expected I think Rogers has a shot I mean if those three are battling it out plus the other guy we got in the 7th I mean we got enough beef there for competition in the new defensive tackle coach and the defensive line coach and our defensive coordinator together might be able to make this work better than last year if we didn't have 18 injuries throughout the team mostly on defense and we're going to blame the lack of talent on a bunch of injuries..

Not to say we didn't need more talent but I think they've done way more this year before the draft in the draft and they'll do more before the season starts than they did last year so I'm OK just waiting to have this debate after the seasons over not claim that we're going to be worse than 29th and not taking into account all the injuries and the quick change over the lame duck defensive coordinator there were so many things that happened that we need to give this a chance..
 
I dont think the FO kept it a secret their plan on the D-line was OSA and Mazi takes a big step.... it really just comes down to can Mazi play or can he not...because if he can not the run defense wont be much better.....
 
blueblood70 said:
Yes the site can be slow loading or lag time it's been weird since right before the draft but I get what you wanted all I'm saying is last year was last year we have a completely different defensive staff in one of these days if you think that we won't hit on one of these defensive tackles or one of the ones we bring in free agency isn't going to work we had this conversation about defensive backs safeties even linebackers and they're starting to pretty much fix those positions so hopefully this gets fixed this year at least on the road to being fixed but I've seen plenty of undrafted free agents or low round picks turn into something I know they keep picking the fruit that's already fallen off the trees but one of these days they're going to find a fresh one and it could work out just like some of the best undrafted free agents a history of football or the low free agents I mentioned in my other post I get what you wanted and they seriously considered Walter Nolan like it was a hard choice for them so at least they were thinking of it.

I'm not making excuses but I'm not going to sit here and act like they're going to finish worse than last year i'm not going to sit here and say they're going to finish better than last year i'm saying put this on hold this is a new year new staff and let's just watch and be entertained we'll discuss this season when it's over and if you are right I'll give you your flowers but I expect the same the injuries we had last year were more of the problem than it was the players that we didn't bring in I realized if we were a 10 win team made the playoffs and were one and done and it was because we didn't address anything that wasn't the case it was over before it started the injuries were early often and all the way till the end of the year you can't expect the year to have gone better anyway in hindsight it didn't matter.

So this year I believe they've done more I think they're allowing the new defensive coordinator the new defensive line coach pick some of these guys and there are people out there that said that Toya whatever his name is and another player we can't spell his name was supposed to be a consensus top one 100 on a lot of people's boards he was worth the top 100 he just got overlooked I don't know if that's true or not but some people say he's a steel because we got him at mid 200 so maybe it is like getting him in the fourth round.?...
Click to expand...
This is really a bigger discussion, it was one of the main reasons why I wanted them to hire a HC with clout, one who would convince Jerry/Stephen they way of team building just doesn't work. Every team around the league is signing impact starters via fa, yes, some fail, but some hit in a big way.

Just drafting/developing isn't enough to compete for a championship in this day and age, they have to use all resources to put together a competitive roster. What happens when you have a poor draft class? Teams use fa to fill those holes, where the Cowboys just ride out the rookie contract. They also have done a very poor job in extended their own players, waiting too long to result in market level deals in which they have to get out of after a season or two.

If they used fa, they could of fixed their run defense several years ago, but they decided against it. I am hopeful the new staff will develop our talent better, but talent always wins out. You cannot expect late rd picks to become impact starters, there is a reason why they are getting drafted so late.
 
blueblood70 said:
Well based on a lot of history you wouldn't think a 7th round pick would become a starting quarterback for the 49ers or a sixth round pick be the goat of all goats you wouldn't have thought that an undrafted free agent in Tony Romo or Kurt Warner would have the careers they had sometimes you just keep picking them and one time it's going to stick so before we announce how awful the season is going to be on defense and how we're going to finish worse than 29 how about we just wait and see so we don't have to have a debate like this? What I'm seeing is they have a lot of beef they have a lot of bodies to choose from they can make this an open competition May the best couple win and get a true nose tackle the rest will be cut and then we'll see what this new coaching staff can do so you're still harping on last year this isn't last year this is a brand new coaching staff with a brand new scheme who are now wanting to bring their groceries in and see if they can make a dinner and we're going to find out..

Say this again and and maybe you can't hear me

last year was a failure not because what they didn't do in the offseason there is no amount of names that they could have brought in that could have covered up that mess of injuries we had again is Derek Henry can become Bo Jackson he could have played three defensive spots two offensive spots and maybe even special teams and then we could have brought in Aaron Donald he could have brought played four different positions yeah maybe they could have fixed what happened last year but no I think last year was more of a failure because we had a lame duck first year defensive coordinator they didn't do much at all in free agency at all prior to the draft and then had a bunch of injuries to boot on top of it most of it was all on defense if you act like that didn't happen and that it was only because the lack of all season work and the lack of commitment to getting a running back and a defensive tackle I'm going to tell you how wrong you are because you're being delusional I get it we'll find out this year how this year went...
Click to expand...
Those late rd hits are extremely rare.

They should of fired the entire staff after the GB blowout loss, but they put everyone on 1 yr contracts and didn't give them any roster help outside of the draft. Why would they operate like this? Made zero sense as they don't care about getting better, more about their pockets.
 
Hadenough said:
Dak has Schoonmaker, Ferguson, Lamb, Tolbert who by the way was 3rd round pick and he is a solid #2 Dak just needs to trust him. Dak has a nice pass catching RB in Blue.
Dak made his bed when he demanded this contract and Jerry paid him. QBs getting paid like Dak don't normally have the luxury of having a top tier supporting cast.
We've seen Dak with Martin and Frederick and Zeke and Amari and Lamb and Witten.
And the Cowboys constantly neglect the middle of the defense. It's criminal thinking Dak needs more help.
Click to expand...
They could of extended Dak years prior by they decided against it. Could of let him test the market, but they chose not to. Our offensive skilled positional players are just not as good as they were in the past. We never have effectively replaced Cooper, Gallup and Zeke along with starters along the OL.

Yes, they need more resources on defense, but they cannot just draft/develop and expect to compete in this league, it is like playing with one arm when your opponent has 3.
 
StarOfGlory said:
I can't paint a rosy picture for you. But here are my thoughts about what could happen...

1. If Schotty is truly committed to the run game, and our o-line can become a force in the run game (why I like the Booker pick), we will give up fewer yards on the ground by virtue of having our defense on the field less. This DOES NOT mean the run D is better, but rather that by being on the field less, we will simply give up less yards per game on the ground. The yards per carry might be the same. In other words, try to win the TOP battle.

2. Winning the TOP battle may force teams to throw more. That will help.

3. Mazi must improve and bulk up again. Hopefully the coaches can do something to help him get quicker off the line and anchor better. I'd like to see the coaches give him a role similar to Jordan Davis: stuff the run first and be a traffic jam. Clog the middle-even if beaten off the snap, anchor and don't get pushed back. If he can get back up to 330-335, and learn to engage and anchor on blockers, that will help quite a bit. Odi will have to lock down his position, and he can.

Now for the downer part...

4. Different defensive scheme will allow players to react to the flow of the play differently. Eberflus has a defense similar to Marinelli. The middle of the field will be open more. Nickel formations and edge pressure on passing downs will be seen more. Parsons in particular will be counted on to provide constant pressure on passing downs. In the Eberflus scheme, the d-line, especially the 3-tech position, must pressure hard. That means the 3T will be asked to provide interior pressure to help the pass rush while being alert for the run. Take the ball away, pressure the QB, and stop the run is the Eberflus way. I don't know if we have enough upfront quality personnel to rotate in game and do what Eberflus wants. I also don't know who will step up and put the edge pressure on in games where the tackles keep Parsons neutralized. Overshown not being on the field for at least half the season will hurt big time.
Click to expand...
They could of easily fixed their run defense via fa or addressed their offensive needs and loaded up on defense via the draft. Yes, they have some quality players, but they just cannot match up against the top teams the way they team build. When you have a poor draft, it kills this franchise and sets them back cause they don't fill their needs adequately enough. Not saying this year's class is bad, but they went into the draft having so many holes to address.
 
Cowboyny said:
Those late rd hits are extremely rare.

They should of fired the entire staff after the GB blowout loss, but they put everyone on 1 yr contracts and didn't give them any roster help outside of the draft. Why would they operate like this? Made zero sense as they don't care about getting better, more about their pockets.
Click to expand...


That’s Neither here nor there


I think I keep saying this and I guess the last time ,

you guys can wallow in whatever happened 15 years ago 20 years ago you can keep bringing up Jason Garrett‘s name and you can just go on last year, this is a whole new year,

the off-season feels different. It’s a new coaching staff. The draft was completely a surprise, but that’s probably a good thing. What they’ve done in the draft kinda intertwines what they’ve done in free agency and I use the word so far with almost 5 months to go before game one….

and everybody’s acting like nothings going to change at all , even though the injuries last year, we’re almost to record like you can’t overcome that where you’re gonna be better by default in my opinion, if we don’t have another injury, riddled season.


I’m just gonna leave it right here ,

that doesn’t happen very often happened in 2020 and what happened next three years after 2020 we stayed relatively healthy. We won 36 games ,2 division titles, went to the playoff Three straight years.

Yes we fell short, but it didn’t look like the same team in 2021 as 2020 and then yes they do go about their business very similar a year to year so my opinion we should be improved regardless we’re not gonna be worse than 29 in the run game,you can let it go. This is my last response.

You can wallow in your pity and anger and disappointment all you want I’m ready just to see what camp looks like ,preseason looks like ,and how the season unfolds.
 
J-man said:
Hey man I was right there with ya pounding the table for a true 1T to be taken early, as I have been for about a decade now. When Grant went at 13 I was shocked and I knew then that we weren't getting Williams at 44. And after those two, the 1T pool got very thin. West was next on my list but TBH, I would've taken the 2 guys we did in rds 2 and 3 over him too. They are just better players. He went in the 4th and we didn't have a pick. I didn't know anything about the 2 guys we selected late but after doing some research I think they did about as good as they could after the top guys were gone. Tioa is a S Pacific guy and they are notoriously strong and play with a violent attitude. I have hope that he can solidify the inside on run downs. Akingisote is a nice developmental player who may become a rotational piece. Time will tell. I think he gives them the position flex they lost in Gohlston.

Don EZrockU is known for his pass rush skills, but honestly is a pretty good run defender as well. Turner is a run defending DE also, as is Kneeland. I think they give them a leg up on last year's run defense already. D-Law was good at it but was out most of the year. They guys after that were just jags really.
The LB's are the bigger question marks but I think are better run defenders than what we had too.
Will all or the new guys combined be enough to sure up the run defense remains to be see. But I do have hope they will. Overall I think it will be better than last year. Is that good enough to be a good run defense? That I do not know, yet.
Click to expand...
Jerry swung and missed yet again. Had a chance to build a DT combo that screamed super bowl, but he didn't. He's not smart enough.
 
blueblood70 said:
Well based on a lot of history you wouldn't think a 7th round pick would become a starting quarterback for the 49ers or a sixth round pick be the goat of all goats you wouldn't have thought that an undrafted free agent in Tony Romo or Kurt Warner would have the careers they had sometimes you just keep picking them and one time it's going to stick so before we announce how awful the season is going to be on defense and how we're going to finish worse than 29 how about we just wait and see so we don't have to have a debate like this? What I'm seeing is they have a lot of beef they have a lot of bodies to choose from they can make this an open competition May the best couple win and get a true nose tackle the rest will be cut and then we'll see what this new coaching staff can do so you're still harping on last year this isn't last year this is a brand new coaching staff with a brand new scheme who are now wanting to bring their groceries in and see if they can make a dinner and we're going to find out..

Say this again and and maybe you can't hear me

last year was a failure not because what they didn't do in the offseason there is no amount of names that they could have brought in that could have covered up that mess of injuries we had again is Derek Henry can become Bo Jackson he could have played three defensive spots two offensive spots and maybe even special teams and then we could have brought in Aaron Donald he could have brought played four different positions yeah maybe they could have fixed what happened last year but no I think last year was more of a failure because we had a lame duck first year defensive coordinator they didn't do much at all in free agency at all prior to the draft and then had a bunch of injuries to boot on top of it most of it was all on defense if you act like that didn't happen and that it was only because the lack of all season work and the lack of commitment to getting a running back and a defensive tackle I'm going to tell you how wrong you are because you're being delusional I get it we'll find out this year how this year went...
Click to expand...
so a lottery win is expected in your world?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Staff online

Members online

... and 98 more.
Total: 1,328 (members: 198, guests: 1,130)

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
465,263
Messages
13,861,989
Members
23,788
Latest member
mattyice
Back
Top