Fixing the run defense is more that just upgrading Mazi Smith!

[CCBoy]

This is Dallas. We don't care about defense. We care about exciting plays like sacks and TDs.

Don't forget those are advantage elements of the game. We are now talking about successes.

 

[CCBoy]

Funny how those corners and rushers can’t do so much when down by two scores and the opponent doesn’t have to pass.

Behind, a lot of teams attack more unrestrained.

 

[Rayman70]

Agree with the post, and concept. At its core, a good sound run Def is disciplined and plays contain well. We don't do that. We tend to over run and take poor angles. If we fix that, we will be better. No matter who's out there.

 

[CWR]

It’s the pass rush, people that need to stop the run . They’re too busy getting after the quarterback and not paying attention to the running back. That’s part of the problem.

It's selfish football to an extent. Id also say its a byproduct of signing one year guys looking to cash in. We had horrible run defense games followed by Quinn coming out and talking about gap integrity/discipline. Then the next game we'd be surprisingly ok.

 

[Mr_437]

I thought the outside runs were the bigger problem. Golston had a breakout season. Kneeland was drafted as a high end run defender with rush upside, Turner has the frame to be a good early down player, he is a bigger version of Kneeland. Think a rotation of those two will be fine at LE, my bigger worry is Parsons being disciplined enough not to sell out as a pass rusher. I think adding a bigger Mike LB in Murray should also help.

Would like to add veteran depth at both DT/DE to help the run defense.

Murray had Simmons n Sweat in ffrtont of him in Tennessee, so yeah it won't be the same for him. I don't trust Kneeland yet, and Turner has done nothing in the league so I'm concerned about the run stopping DEs. Overall, these coaches know what they have and what they need.

 

[Praxit]

...I think front office already knew, not to count FULLY on Mazi.

They went out and got help in the draft.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Think that is their plan, force teams to throw against our pass rush

which comes down to being able to stop the run. at 4.8 ypc, we are in 2nd and 5 situations and it makes it very difficult to pass rush, as teams may choose to run half the time and slows down our pass rush.

 

[Cowboyny]

which comes down to being able to stop the run. at 4.8 ypc, we are in 2nd and 5 situations and it makes it very difficult to pass rush, as teams may choose to run half the time and slows down our pass rush.

this scheme is designed to take away the big passing plays away and tighten up in the red zone. It is a scheme that will give up yardage but force teams to drive the entire field.

I don’t like this scheme, rather play more aggressive, but the key is tighten up in the red zone and creating turnovers. Bears were 2nd in the league in red zone defense last yr, which gives us some hope

 

[Cowboyny]

Agree with the post, and concept. At its core, a good sound run Def is disciplined and plays contain well. We don't do that. We tend to over run and take poor angles. If we fix that, we will be better. No matter who's out there.

I agree, playing more disciplined with turn is into an average run defense which is all we need. It is up to the coaches to hammer this with the players. Rub defense isn’t difficult if they hustle and work as one

 

[gimmesix]

The DEs were a problem, yet most blamed Mazi. I was surprised they let Golston walk to depend on Kneeland and Turner to set the edge. Now the DE group is filled with Edge rushers and lacking impact at Base End. Maybe Solomon Thomas can help set the Edge.

Interested to see how Eberflus fixes this issue, but it does look like the run defense could use some more attention.

Turner and Kneeland are both strong run defenders. I think that is why we got them. Last year, Zimmer wanted better run defense from the DEs, so we drafted Kneeland because it was a strength of his. This year, Eberflus picked up Turner for the same reason. He didn't succeed as a first-round pick in New Orleans because he never developed as a pass rusher, but he's a solid run defender.

 

[Cowboyny]

Murray had Simmons n Sweat in ffrtont of him in Tennessee, so yeah it won't be the same for him. I don't trust Kneeland yet, and Turner has done nothing in the league so I'm concerned about the run stopping DEs. Overall, these coaches know what they have and what they need.

Murray was just there for a season, played with the Chargers before there. Jury is out on both Kneeland/Turner, all they need to do is match what Golston did last season to be successful. Set the edge, play sound football

 

[75boyz]

The old boxing description of styles make fights comes to mind.
I believe you said in earlier posts about being a 3-4 supporter but with the current roster the team lacks those effective front 3 to carry out a true 3-4. Fine at linebacker, glaringly weak at the defensive end types needed. I think you also proposed some kind of 5 3 3 hybrid getting more containment up to the front line.

I'm in total agreement with most all your suggestions.
I just continue to lack the confidence in the existing 1st and 2nd level players but will try to remain open minded to your coaching em up scheme adjustments to make up for certain liabilities.

Just still not sure this line/ linebackers can prevent the quality run game opponents still dominating.
Even considering scheme adjustments.

Would settle for average against the better running teams.
They still lack several pieces to get the job done imo.

 

[Rayman70]

I agree, playing more disciplined with turn is into an average run defense which is all we need. It is up to the coaches to hammer this with the players. Rub defense isn’t difficult if they hustle and work as one

Exactly. It's not complicated or all that challenging. It's a matter of ones mindset and desire. Not everyone needs to be a hero. Just be decent and we got a shot.

 

[kskboys]

Eazy, revel, and toia will make a big difference against the run game. Mark my words.

Revel? He's a CB. Not getting this one.

 

[Mr_437]

Turner and Kneeland are both strong run defenders. I think that is why we got them. Last year, Zimmer wanted better run defense from the DEs, so we drafted Kneeland because it was a strength of his. This year, Eberflus picked up Turner for the same reason. He didn't succeed as a first-round pick in New Orleans because he never developed as a pass rusher, but he's a solid run defender.

Turner - 16 games, 21 tackles, 2 sacks, 3 TFLs

Kneeland - 11 games, 14 tackles, 0 sacks, 2 TFLs

I'm not encouraged. PFF has Turner ranked 201 out of 211 vs the run, now I'm not thinking PFF is everything but c'mon. We shall see if these guys are strong vs the run, but so far it doesn't seem to have shown in the NFL. Now I'm rooting for these guys, but I think it's a bit ambitious to be so confident in them.

Murray was just there for a season, played with the Chargers before there. Jury is out on both Kneeland/Turner, all they need to do is match what Golston did last season to be successful. Set the edge, play sound football

Golston - 56 tackles, 5.5 sacks, 5 TFL. Now the hope is Kneeland takes a 2nd year leap and Turner benefits from a scheme change and scenery change. Maybe they combine to do well, we just haven't seen it yet, is all.

Murray played for the Titans last season, played with the Chargers who drafted him for several seasons, and went to college at Oklahoma. Nothing in his bio changes the fact he played with Sweat n Simmons in front of him last season.

 

[75boyz]

Yeah,
Good call on the front line guys yet TBD.
My additional concern is at the 2nd level. A combination of just being poor run defenders and too light in the *** even with our better linebackers, has me extremely skeptical.

 

[gimmesix]

Turner - 16 games, 21 tackles, 2 sacks, 3 TFLs

Kneeland - 11 games, 14 tackles, 0 sacks, 2 TFLs

I'm not encouraged. PFF has Turner ranked 201 out of 211 vs the run, now I'm not thinking PFF is everything but c'mon. We shall see if these guys are strong vs the run, but so far it doesn't seem to have shown in the NFL. Now I'm rooting for these guys, but I think it's a bit ambitious to be so confident in them.


Golston - 56 tackles, 5.5 sacks, 5 TFL. Now the hope is Kneeland takes a 2nd year leap and Turner benefits from a scheme change and scenery change. Maybe they combine to do well, we just haven't seen it yet, is all.

Turner played 331 snaps last year (31 percent/20 per game). Kneeland missed six games, but also averaged in that range in the games he played (56 percent in the opener was his high). Golston also started out in that range (38, 47, 17, 36 percent in the first four games) before playing in the 80s and 90s pretty much the rest of the season because of Lawrence's injury.

Golston took advantage of his opportunity. Not sure Kneeland and Turner will get as much opportunity, but stats are partially a product of chances. Golston played 772 snaps, quite a bit more than Turner's 331 and Kneeland's 235.

Now, part of the reason for that may have been more nickel time as a DT than Turner and Kneeland got (and some of it with Kneeland was obviously missing games).

I agree with you, though, that there's no reason to be confident in them until they show it. I just think they could eat up some run downs to keep Parsons and Eze fresh (and that would still be about 31 percent of the snaps).

Here's what Mickey Spagnola wrote about Turner after we acquired him:

But among the rest, to me, here is the possible sleeper, the relatively unknown and potentially overlooked:

Payton Turner.

That's right, Turner, one of five former first round draft choices brought in this past week, the New Orleans Saints selecting the 6-6, 270 defensive end with the 28th pick in the 2021 NFL Draft, but after his four nondescript years decided against picking up his fifth-year option and he was more than glad to sign a one-year, $2 million guaranteed free agent deal, sort of a prove-it contract with the Cowboys.

And you're probably saying, "What the what?"
This guy from Houston and the University of had only played 15 games his first three seasons with the Saints and then active for 16 in 2024. That's it, 31 career games. No starts. Just 50 total tackles, five sacks, 674 defensive snaps. That's a humble average of 168.5 a year. Like mere 21.8 a game played. Nothing to write home about.

So why this guy?

Well, it was something he said the other day in a conference call, speaking with clarity and confidence that made me do a little research.
"I think it's a new opportunity for me," Turner began, "an opportunity to hit that stride."

And then there was this: "I had a few injuries early in my career . . . one of the things I need to get better is my health . . . need to be available, one of the things I struggled with in New Orleans."

Ah-ha. I'll say. Check this out.
After playing only five games is the 2020 final year at Houston dealing with COVID restrictions and a foot injury, then a shoulder injury his rookie season landed him on injured reserve with the Saints in 2021, limiting him to five games. In 2022, played just eight games, battling, shoulder, chest and ankle injuries. In 2023, just two games, 25 snaps, landed on IR following toe surgery after playing the opener, then returning for just the final game. And while active for 16 games in 2024, finally played 31 percent of the snaps (331/avg. 20 a game), two sacks, 21 total tackles.

Someone had to see something in this guy to become a top 28th pick in the draft. He's got 35-inch arms, 10¼-inch hands, a 35-inch vertical and a 4.31 20-yard-shuttle for a defensive end when a 4.2 is considered good for a cornerback. The Cowboys thought highly of him, but probably not as highly as a first-round pick. Maybe if he was there at the 12th pick in the second round, No. 44, they would have taken him instead of Kelvin Joseph.

Well, four years later, here he is. And with the loss of DeMarcus Lawrence and Chauncey Golston, knowing Sam Williams must return from last summer's torn ACL, Marshawn Kneeland needing to stay healthy and Fowler likely a rotational player, Turner is going to get his shot.

As long as he remains "available."

https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/mick-shots-this-might-be-this-bunch-s-big-sleeper

 

[Whirlwin]

Oh, you prefer to collect gold like someone in charge...smart butt. I am a Veteran and long time fan. (from the start)

If you prefer smartbutt, find someone else. You imply you don't understand developing principals or the guts in play.

So what? I was describing elements to success. Whether you can see it or not.

I also played and never cowered because someone wants to act like a jerk. Want to talk football, step up!

Now step on up and let us know how Musa Smith does this season or stick to your crying.

I’m a veteran, and a long time fan, that’s why I became a cowboy fan Roger Starbuck in the military overseas they would pipe in the Cowboys on Sundays ,

I thought it was you that was being the wise guy. You started it.
King Crimson, have you ever heard of them? It’s a rock band from the 70s. Elephant talk is the name of the song.

In fact, I don’t even know what you’re talking about. I don’t recall being rude. I’m one of the most positive people here.
Smart butt. Lol

 

[doomsday9084]

Dallas has been a frontrunning team for several years now. What I mean by that is that when they get a lead it frequently snowballs. Teams don't run, get stuck into dealing with Dallas' rush and pass D and start falling further and further behind. On the flip side, when a team gets up on Dallas they start running it and Dallas simply can't stop it. The other team marches down the field, burns up the clock and runs up the score.

Dallas needs to be able to stop the run when they know the other team is going to run. Dan Quinn was just completely against putting more or bigger men in the box when teams were jamming the ball down the Cowboys' throat. Zimmer was better about that but it was still an issue.

Its not about what the team ranks or averages. I don't care if teams get 5 yard runs when they are down 20 points. Its about Dallas being able to stop that team that is running it play after play.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

Dallas has been a frontrunning team for several years now. What I mean by that is that when they get a lead it frequently snowballs. Teams don't run, get stuck into dealing with Dallas' rush and pass D and start falling further and further behind. On the flip side, when a team gets up on Dallas they start running it and Dallas simply can't stop it. The other team marches down the field, burns up the clock and runs up the score.

Dallas needs to be able to stop the run when they know the other team is going to run. Dan Quinn was just completely against putting more or bigger men in the box when teams were jamming the ball down the Cowboys' throat. Zimmer was better about that but it was still an issue.

Its not about what the team ranks or averages. I don't care if teams get 5 yard runs when they are down 20 points. Its about Dallas being able to stop that team that is running it play after play.

Exactly.