Cowboys news: Comparing Matt Eberflus and Dan Quinn schemes

[maryquality]

MattE loves the Bend But Don’t Break scheme.

Is that the same as "prevent defense"?

 

[plasticman]

It is interesting to note that, "Eberflus’ defense is more based on stopping the run and forcing turnovers ."

Really? More based on forcing turnovers?

Because, as I recall, Quinn's defenses were pretty darn good at forcing turnovers.

In fact, for two consecutive seasons, his defense led the league in takeaways, 2021 and 2022. In 2021 they led the league in INTs and in 2022, they led the league in fumbles recovered.

In two of Quinn's three seasons, a Cowboys cornerback led the league in interceptions....;.;two different cornerbacks.

Eberflus might "base" his defense on creating more turnovers but exceeding Quinn's results would be a pretty tall order. Be that as it may, I'm certainly not opposed to the corresponding results.

 

[blueblood70]

That's been true for years no matter who the DC has been.

And what does that have to do with this year??!!

every year is different, we'll find out what we have but it'll probably be game 6 or 7 before we really find out because they're going to start the season shorthanded, but we can't judge the current players or coaches in this year's team on anything that's happened in the past,​

​

we need to give it some time...​

I mean Dan Campbell didn't do squat in his first year, hell he's lucky he didn't get ran out of there, I mean I can't remember where they 1-15, II don't even know but they looked horrible, they kept giving him more and more of a roster and now they made a championship game even though they**** themselves in the championship game,

we need to give this team a chance to get off the ground with this new coaching staff and let them experiment a little bit and figure it out they're going to have to create an identity..

I know they're working on the whole culture thing but once they get in the games then they're going to know where the actual problems are that they need to fix it and the fan base needs to understand that we need to stop doing this stop blaming things from 30 years ago or 10 years ago or even last year this is a new staff there's a lot of new faces they have get things installed they also have to have a chance to see what's broken and have a chance to fix it...​

I know that's a hard concept right you should judge everything by the past and never understand the fact that let's give this new team a chance and yeah it could take a whole year, and we might not see the fruits of what this coating staffs vision is for this team ,and still might not happen until next year.

The 90s championship teams weren't built overnight did you see Troy as a rookie did you see that team, they were getting their butts kicked at every level,

nowadays because of social media and fan involvement in everyday or up to the minute Updates they feel like everything should happen right now, overnight, this is a show me now culture and it shouldn't be... This happens around here with draft picks there's like no middle ground it's not great as rookies everyone says they're a bust...​

Took the Rams quite a while to get what they thought was a Super Bowl team and then realized they didn't think their quarterback had it in them made a trade won a Super Bowl.. that did not get built overnight. what happened with the eagles same thing they were really close but then they added the missing piece in Saquan Barkley this team should be given a chance and by the way speaking of the Eagles their head coach had no resume either...

so giving these examples we should stop saying well this is what we've seen forever blah blah blah no this is a new year let's give it a chance and not three games not even really this season but hopefully we'll see signs that this team can be rebuilt into something great....

 

[blueblood70]

That was pretty much Quinn's scheme and how it played out during his time here.

Still like that his defenses are known to give up big leads I mean I've seen both sides of it they choked they did it in the Super Bowl they did it when he was here and had leads in Green Bay and Jacksonville on the road I mean to get stood up and beat down by a very average AZ team just kept running down your throat buffalo beat us with Alan only having 90 yards passing they literally just ran roughshaw over the defense it happened with him in the N F C championship game last year they got absolutely throttled..

But Newsflash Dan Quinn's not here right now this is a different defense and it may take more than a year to get rebuilt I mean look at how many defenses we've had since 2016 the defensive coordinators and all parts of the defense keep getting changed and that means you're trying to get it in one offseason purged and get the players the new coordinator needs to build everyone here thinks this stuff's supposed to happen overnight and I think we need to give it time to get an identity it may take more than just this season but what I'd like to see is progress by the end of the year that they're creating an identity but it could be next year before it turns into anything that they have a vision for you can't do it in one offseason I don't know many teams that have they add pieces every offseason until they finally get it together....

The expectations already low for this new coaching staff but anybody in here only giving them this year to show something are you just gonna label them the same old same old when that's just not right...

What I want to see is a team that gets better as the season goes along especially when they get players back in the middle of the season they're waiting on key players and then see how this thing starts to roll I just want to see progress even if it's small progress I just want to see whatever they have in mind start to come together and maybe it carries over into next year they add a few more pieces and this entire team can get better but expecting it to happen overnight is ridiculous..

Poor Mike Zimmer tried that it didn't help you're hired to change the events and you don't have your own players to do it... Not even counting all the injuries a record amount of injuries on that side of the ball i'm not trying to make excuses but those things matter...

 

[quickccc]

- I thought Quinn played more " hybrid " and unconventional alignments than what the likes of Marinelli and Zimmer would not do.
A somewhat mixture of both 4-3 & 3-4 looks, but with more.. 4 DL front with 2 LBs .
It's goal i thought was to create mismatches while giving various looks ot confuse the opposing offense.

- thus far, Quinn would move Parsons in various spots and matchups that Zimmer didn't , Parsons would blitz over center and between the OG & C gaps that
made him tougher to track & double than on the outsides.
I don't recall Parsons blitzing much over center in Zimmer schemes.

_ Zimmer said he did not place much emphasis on INTs, more so keeping receiver & action in front and making plays -tackles otherwise
Quinn believed in jumping the passing lanes for INTs.

- Cowboys & McClay began placing more emphasis on providing "Ball Hawks " for the DC.. DBs with better resume/rep for collecting INTs.
BTW, that's also a lead reason why Cowboys allowed CB Byron Jones to walk out as FA, rather than re-sign him as one of the highest paid CB -perhis one, lone
All pro year (zero INTs)

 

[blueblood70]

I'd like to see Overshown with CJ Anderson coming up the middle. Look, I like Overshown and won't deny he makes plays but I don't know about him and his size in terms of where he fits.......

You shouldn't have to see him that way your defensive line should slow that up as much as possible and that's what your actual middle linebackers are for you do realize that Overshown's more of an outside weak sideline backer you're not supposed to be taking on running backs in the whole without any help with him coming full speed meaning somebody didn't do their job but if he comes on the outside if he has to be forced to move a little and slow down a little and change direction a little that is what a defense is supposed to do up front they're supposed to help each other.. There are three linebackers for a reason and in most plays they're always gonna have 2 linebackers on the field or you can have a hybrid linebacker like Dan Quinn like to have they all have specific roles and his role is not to take on CJ Anderson at full speed up the middle that is not what a weak side linebacker or an outside linebacker is supposed to do..

I mean you act like the team is just full of 150 pound guys and we're all in big trouble no that's not how it's supposed to work now you're not supposed to want to see that he is not built like the old school linebacker like ray Lewis.. True middle linebackers like we tried to do with LVE but once again we have injuries at the linebacker position that we can't overcome that is your true big middle linebacker that's supposed to take on a big back in the hole you're outside linebackers like Demarcus Ware what defense you're in are not supposed to be taking guys on that big without help up front of just at least slowing them down a bit..

Your vision is skewed you have no idea what each linebacker in safety in the guys up front are all supposed to be certain sizes because they have a certain role on the team they're not supposed to be taking on a 250 plus pound back like the Nigerian nightmare by themselves that's not what the new NFL is all about...

Taking on Derek Henry would be bad enough but I've seen it but you just can't be doing that every play that is not what your role was on this team as an outside linebacker weak side linebackers are usually taking on guys sideways or ones that have already been slowed down and you come up to help.

When you get that figured out you let me know he's not too small to play linebacker he is not a middle linebacker you're supposed to have a big back like a little bit larger guy like say Clark that can handle that but you're supposed to especially have some interior defensive lineman slow these guys down that way they're not coming like a train up the middle you've made them step sideways or stutter step and now a guy like overshown can come in and help maybe you don't understand that about football that is why it's a team game all of it is supposed to flow together... But if they're smart they also know how to tackle better and you don't take on a guy high like that you try to get your pads lower and you try to get them on their ankles you can hold them up until your help comes I mean literally the things you're trying to describe is you think he's supposed to be some giant middle linebacker and that is not who he is...

 

[SportsGuru80]

I hope they do less stunts because that ish leaves huge run holes SMH....

 

[blueblood70]

- I thought Quinn played more " hybrid " and unconventional alignments than what the likes of Marinelli and Zimmer would not do.
A somewhat mixture of both 4-3 & 3-4 looks, but with more.. 4 DL front with 2 LBs .
It's goal i thought was to create mismatches while giving various looks ot confuse the opposing offense.

- thus far, Quinn would move Parsons in various spots and matchups that Zimmer didn't , Parsons would blitz over center and between the OG & C gaps that
made him tougher to track & double than on the outsides.
I don't recall Parsons blitzing much over center in Zimmer schemes.

_ Zimmer said he did not place much emphasis on INTs, more so keeping receiver & action in front and making plays -tackles otherwise
Quinn believed in jumping the passing lanes for INTs.

- Cowboys & McClay began placing more emphasis on providing "Ball Hawks " for the DC.. DBs with better resume/rep for collecting INTs.
BTW, that's also a lead reason why Cowboys allowed CB Byron Jones to walk out as FA, rather than re-sign him as one of the highest paid CB -perhis one, lone
All pro year (zero INTs)

Still made the right move on Byron Jones he wasn't worth the money if you think he was, and I hate to break it to you let the professional's figure that out,

this was not Jalen Ramsey's we're talking about this was not Revas Island...

You can't pay a guy special money for one good season; he was not special.... You have to allow players to walk you can't pay them all and he was one that this was not worth that kind of money.... Heard he proved out he didn't have much of a career after he left here he was okay but you can't make special money and just be okay..

I think the Cowboys would prefer like any team would prefer they'd like both a guy that can cover and get interceptions but somewhere in between by the way digs after his big interception season got better in coverage he's just been injured just cause the man doesn't like to come up and tackle doesn't mean he can't cover...

This was a five star recruit in college who played for a big college team he was brought over here because he was a good corner not because he can pick the ball off I saw a lot of development in this guy but he hasn't been able to show it because he's gotten hurt two years in a row... Again if you didn't see that that he literally became a way better cover guy after his big interception season then you're also not watching I don't think they're going out and hoping guys play high risk ball hawk hero ball and then can't cover it all I don't think that that's what they were intending to do it just happened to be what they got..

It would just be nice if we can have players not constantly get injured on the defensive side of the ball it's happening more often than I can remember that just positions are being just eaten up by injuries and now on the most recent one is corner we just can't buy a break because Butler looks pretty good and then gets hurt... I can't remember another position that went from last year being questionable because the injury now going into this year it's still that same way and we drafted a guy with a similar problem....

 

[jazzcat22]

How different is Eberflus than Marinelli. Marinelli was big into stunts and Dallas got gashed constantly by teams going the other way.

And pass defense, didn’t teams view Kris Richard’s cover 3 as too basic?

I’m skeptical Eberflus will work because of the deficiencies that were here the last time he was on staff.

He was not the DC though. He had to work under a different scheme, then what he does now. Look how quick he turned around the Colts defense when he went there. Can't remember how the talent was compared to Dallas, but it was not like they had a lot of all pro's.

 

[shabazz]

The Cowboys defense is built to play with a lead.

You can connect the dots from there.

In 4 out of the last 5 playoff losses our offense scored only 7 or less points in the entire first halfs.......the dots definitely didn't connect in those games

 

[blueblood70]

It is interesting to note that, "Eberflus’ defense is more based on stopping the run and forcing turnovers ."

Really? More based on forcing turnovers?

Because, as I recall, Quinn's defenses were pretty darn good at forcing turnovers.

In fact, for two consecutive seasons, his defense led the league in takeaways, 2021 and 2022. In 2021 they led the league in INTs and in 2022, they led the league in fumbles recovered.

In two of Quinn's three seasons, a Cowboys cornerback led the league in interceptions....;.;two different cornerbacks.

Eberflus might "base" his defense on creating more turnovers but exceeding Quinn's results would be a pretty tall order. Be that as it may, I'm certainly not opposed to the corresponding results.

Well there's some truth to that,

but I think this is where you're going wrong yes Dan Quinn's defenses forced a lot of turnovers but he worked really hard to create that atmosphere using too many guys to do so whereas Eberflus and even Zimmer who didn't get a chance here because of the injuries and he only had one year they want to have those turnovers happen from normal pressure, your guys are so good upfront you don't have to bring extra guys, you don't have to blitz, you don't have to play high risk ball on the back end, you're getting your turnovers more traditionally that way you don't sacrifice the base defense and trying to stop the run..​

I'm not saying that that's going to happen, I'm just telling you the differences in philosophy, 1 goes out of his way to create the turnovers and will sacrifice anything to get them ,and the other wants them but he wants them a more traditional way.. you have such good players you don't need to create it you just want it to happen to organically...

Similar on offense when you have to bring too many guys in to block to create a run game versus having your standard 5 be all the blocks so well you don't need to take away from your passing game in order to create a run... which is very much what happened at the end of last year the TEs did nothing cause they were in the block on almost every down but that's the only way they can create a run game....​

We don't know what we're going to get here right now, he only has one offseason ,and he's going to need a lot more ,and some luck of having these injured players come back and start building something that can have a second off season to get more parts for..

it is not fair to be judging these guys acting like it should just be good right at the gate with this new coaching staff that's not how it works they're going to need to get their players and more of their type of players to get better each season it needs to grow..​

But I'd be happy to see by mid season until the end of the season to see some growth and to get better and start to realize the vision with the full complement of players but on my expectations isn't going to be something we just went from a 7 win season and then all of a sudden a brand new coaching staff can just put out a playoff deep run type team...​

 

[blueblood70]

He was not the DC though. He had to work under a different scheme, then what he does now. Look how quick he turned around the Colts defense when he went there. Can't remember how the talent was compared to Dallas, but it was not like they had a lot of all pro's.

And I'll add to that also I don't have to go back on memory I know that the Bears and the Colts had bad offenses and you know how without complimenting offenses and a bunch of 3 and outs and turnovers can do to a defense...

Like they had a powerhouse on the other side of the ball to help compliment the defense you need to work together to have a better team because if you have one that's really bad and the other side is good it's really going to take away from the overall execution..

 

[ElGatoGrande]

The Cowboys defense is built to play with a lead.

You can connect the dots from there.

What a great strategy, make all of the team's success reliant on the offense, that's bound to work.... Against the bottom half of the league anyway.