Elite Athletes vs Good Football Players!

[Cowboyny]

Cowboy Front office for years have always targeted the high upside athletes over the high floor good football players. Bryon Jones, Sam Williams, Kelvin Joseph, along with several others. The majority of these players failed to reach their so called high potential, where many never even earned a 2nd contract.

They made a surprise selection last year in Schott's 1st season as HC by drafting Booker. The positional value was poor, but as it turned out Booker became arguably the team's best, most consistent lineman as a rookie. He was considered a poor athlete by most standards, but was a good football player that possessed all the intangibles that don't show up on a box sheet.

I fully understand, you cannot have a roster full of poor athletes, but it is important to find balance. You need these glue type of guys so your athletes can shine and play fast. You can be less restrictive about certain traits if they bring these so called intangibles to the table.

 

[jazzcat22]

Good points.
Which comes to this years draft.

I did not like that we did not have a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick.
Thy did get to get a 3rd round pick for Osa, and dump his contract. However can they replace him in the draft, or have they already replaced him with the moves they made in FA. That has been debated.

But I feel a lot better having that 3rd round. pick. Now will the trade down to get a 2nd round pick as well.
Which brings us to this.

Use the 2 - 1st round picks and get 2 elite players, or 1 elite, and 1 that can become elite.
Or trade down, get more picks, and get 4 very good players, that contribute right away, and can become elite or almost elite type players.

They could still have 2 - 1st round pick, get a 2nd round pick, an additional 3rd, giving them 2 -3rd round picks.
Getting 5 very good players.

 

[cnuball21]

In the 1st round it is very simple IMO...

Plus tape, plus athlete, plus measurables and plus intangibles. And medicals.

You are trying to check all if the boxes or as many as possible and ideally at a premium position.

Plus tape is priority but I will never understand the fans that ignore everything else bc NFL teams sure as heck arent.

 

[LouBrown]

The idea that high-upside athletes don't also have good tape is kind of silly, imo.

 

[Cowboyny]

The idea that high-upside athletes don't also have good tape is kind of silly, imo.

That happened every year.

 

[LouBrown]

That happened every year.

Not really.

They might have inconsistent tape, sure. But athleticism always flashes on film.

 

[Cowboyny]

Not really.

They might have inconsistent tape, sure. But athleticism always flashes on film.

Some players are drafted just on traits, not good tape.

 

[LouBrown]

Some players are drafted just on traits, not good tape.

Yea...not really lol

Even players who don't have tangible production have flashes of tape where their traits translate.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Cowboy Front office for years have always targeted the high upside athletes over the high floor good football players. Bryon Jones, Sam Williams, Kelvin Joseph, along with several others. The majority of these players failed to reach their so called high potential, where many never even earned a 2nd contract.

They made a surprise selection last year in Schott's 1st season as HC by drafting Booker. The positional value was poor, but as it turned out Booker became arguably the team's best, most consistent lineman as a rookie. He was considered a poor athlete by most standards, but was a good football player that possessed all the intangibles that don't show up on a box sheet.

I fully understand, you cannot have a roster full of poor athletes, but it is important to find balance. You need these glue type of guys so your athletes can shine and play fast. You can be less restrictive about certain traits if they bring these so called intangibles to the table.

Williams had very good tape against top competition. His biggest issue was probably the timing of his injury. He made bone head plays his 1st and 2nd year, but he was effective when he got playing time. He had 9 sacks in about 750 snaps year 1 and 2

Jones was a very good player when they stopped experimenting with him. They would have resigned him if not for a cap squeeze. He fell off in Miami and after injuries

Joseph was just poor scouting. He had very little tape to go by, and they basically squinted and saw a potentially elite player

 

[JBS]

you described the state of this franchise to perfection. They’re always looking for the home run. It’s why the depth of this team has always been poor. We need many more good football players. We don’t necessarily need 1 or 2 more stars.

 

[Cowboyny]

Williams had very good tape against top competition. His biggest issue was probably the timing of his injury. He made bone head plays his 1st and 2nd year, but he was effective when he got playing time. He had 9 sacks in about 750 snaps year 1 and 2

Jones was a very good player when they stopped experimenting with him. They would have resigned him if not for a cap squeeze. He fell off in Miami and after injuries

Joseph was just poor scouting. He had very little tape to go by, and they basically squinted and saw a potentially elite player

Sam Williams was taken out of the rotation by Dan Quinn and moved to special teams. This was prior to him hurting his knee after Quinn left for Washington.

Jones was always an ok starter, but had zero ball skills to speak of. His best trait was his coverage of the TE's. Team decided he wasn't worth a 2nd contract. Yes, due to injuries he was out of the league shortly there after.

Joseph was a reach to fill a need. A 1st rd talent that had questionable off the field character issues.

 

[cnuball21]

I will add BJ was way better than fans give him credit he just struggled with injury. He 100% was worth the pick at the time.

 

[Gambit]

Good points.
Which comes to this years draft.

I did not like that we did not have a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick.
Thy did get to get a 3rd round pick for Osa, and dump his contract. However can they replace him in the draft, or have they already replaced him with the moves they made in FA. That has been debated.

But I feel a lot better having that 3rd round. pick. Now will the trade down to get a 2nd round pick as well.
Which brings us to this.

Use the 2 - 1st round picks and get 2 elite players, or 1 elite, and 1 that can become elite.
Or trade down, get more picks, and get 4 very good players, that contribute right away, and can become elite or almost elite type players.

They could still have 2 - 1st round pick, get a 2nd round pick, an additional 3rd, giving them 2 -3rd round picks.
Getting 5 very good players.

In this draft I'd venture not a lot of difference in 20 and mid 4th round prospects.

Especially at some positions. I prefer we trade back some with #20. But gotta have a willing partner.

 

[gtb1943]

Teams should do it this way: you hear from several sources about players then watch them on TV if possible or get tape. Then got to a game or two and watch the player; watch them in practice. Suss out his attitude and demeanor and self discipline and all that.
THEN worry about the measureables and do not let the numbers either glorify or denigrate the tape.
I can understand worrying about this when talking players from say North Dakota State and so on
BUT if you have a player that has played in the bigs for several years then you can see what he does against equal players
The interviews and medicals are where the meat of the process after that should be
Underwear olympics dead last in factors

 

[AsthmaField]

“The next time I try to draft a dumb player, hit me in the head with a hammer.”

~Jimmy Johnson to one of his assistant coaches on the Cowboys staff

 

[Cowboyny]

“The next time I try to draft a dumb player, hit me in the head with a hammer.”

~Jimmy Johnson to one of his assistant coaches on the Cowboys staff

That has been part of the problem for years!

 

[CWR]

Cowboy Front office for years have always targeted the high upside athletes over the high floor good football players. Bryon Jones, Sam Williams, Kelvin Joseph, along with several others. The majority of these players failed to reach their so called high potential, where many never even earned a 2nd contract.

They made a surprise selection last year in Schott's 1st season as HC by drafting Booker. The positional value was poor, but as it turned out Booker became arguably the team's best, most consistent lineman as a rookie. He was considered a poor athlete by most standards, but was a good football player that possessed all the intangibles that don't show up on a box sheet.

I fully understand, you cannot have a roster full of poor athletes, but it is important to find balance. You need these glue type of guys so your athletes can shine and play fast. You can be less restrictive about certain traits if they bring these so called intangibles to the table.

Yes. We need football players not track and field athletes. One thing easy to dismiss when drooling over 40 times is processing speed. It does absolutely no good running a 4.4 when you cant read a play.

 

[CWR]

That has been part of the problem for years!

One of my favorite "changes" is CP avoiding "gray area" players. He will make certain we have defenders who can read and react. Id wager we cut down on stupid penalties as well.

 

[Cowboyny]

One of my favorite "changes" is CP avoiding "gray area" players. He will make certain we have defenders who can read and react. Id wager we cut down on stupid penalties as well.

That’s is what I heard from him as well in his press conference; high iq, instinctive players.

 

[CWR]

That’s is what I heard from him as well in his press conference; high iq, instinctive players.

If we hold true to what he says its much easier to predict who we may draft and who is lower on our board.

I dont see any Mo Clairbornes towards the top of the draft, but later during the draft there are LBs who are known for being able to read and react very well. We should be targeting those types.