Spagnola: Alas, Paying Respect to CMDR Prescott

SteveTheCowboy said:
He should have said "the team needs to help Dak win in the playoffs". Right?

And nobody will remember anyone else but Dak for it.
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The team needs to win in the playoffs. It will take all 53 players, the coaches, trainers and a lot of luck. Same for every team.
 
SteveTheCowboy said:
That's what I tell the Dak Crusaders. It's nothing against Dak....just how it is for ALL of 'em. They're big boys with big bucks. Doesn't matter what either side says, really.

And he forgot to mention another position that escapes wrath; the very rich owner who's also the GM. Or rather, immune to it.
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Well again... since you double down about how post season records are a quarterback's alone.... we should respect Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Nick Foles more than any quarterbacks in history who've never won a Superbowl correct?


According to what you're saying, we both agree on this one right?
 
Whyjerry said:
Dak needs to win in the playoffs. Period. He will never be respected until he does that.
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Is it Dak need to win in the playoffs or do the Dallas Cowboys need to win in the playoffs? No quarterback in NFL history has ever won playoff games by themselves.


"They aren't out there playing singles" - Bill Parcells
 
GINeric said:
Is it Dak need to win in the playoffs or do the Dallas Cowboys need to win in the playoffs? No quarterback in NFL history has ever won playoff games by themselves.


"They aren't out there playing singles" - Bill Parcells
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But....they can lose it for you, and not give your team a fighting chance

Source: 30 years of Dallas Cowboys football
 
Redsfan_83 said:
When he was traded to the Rams....his record is 6-2 with a ring to show for it. Are you thinking the same will happen for Dak here?
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Im not sure what will happen for Dak, but Stafford's record wasn't 6-2, the Rams record was 6-2.

Stafford is an excellent quarterback, no question but the year the Rams won the Superbowl, Stafford led the league in interceptions.

Now if we insist on attaching team records to the quarterback alone, then we can't ignore the fact that Stafford has a record of 17-75 or something like that vs winning teams during his career.

Now when do we decide if it's a quarterback record or team record? We can't split the two up for convenience.
 
Rockport said:
Total lie. Just listen to yourself. You Dak haters embarrass yourself every time you post.
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When it comes to fan respect, I think it's true. Whether fair or not, fans hold playoff success or the lack thereof against the QB.

I was a big fan of Romo as our quarterback, but I know there are plenty here who don't think he was as good as his numbers show because of the lack of playoff success. They think he wasn't clutch. They don't respect him because of the team's failure.

I think it will be the same with Dak (and currently is). The only way to shut them up is to win a Super Bowl.

Now, I don't think there is a lack of respect for either QB among GMs and executives. I think coaches and most players also know how good they are. They understand there is more to winning than who's behind center.
 
GINeric said:
Im not sure what will happen for Dak, but Stafford's record wasn't 6-2, the Rams record was 6-2.

Stafford is an excellent quarterback, no question but the year the Rams won the Superbowl, Stafford led the league in interceptions.

Now if we insist on attaching team records to the quarterback alone, then we can't ignore the fact that Stafford has a record of 17-75 or something like that vs winning teams during his career.

Now when do we decide if it's a quarterback record or team record? We can't split the two up for convenience.
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It's always a team record that the QB has a very large role to play in. Stafford has a ton of INT's the year the Rams won, and I think he had a couple in the game itself. He also led the team on a game-winning TD, as I recall, and gave up over 300 yards. I am certain that Rams fans forgave him for the INTs that year, just as Cowboys fans would forgive our QB if the same were to happen here. Let's not forget, Stafford is also the product of a damn good Football organization from top to bottom...Dak? Not so much
 
gimmesix said:
When it comes to fan respect, I think it's true. Whether fair or not, fans hold playoff success or the lack thereof against the QB.

I was a big fan of Romo as our quarterback, but I know there are plenty here who don't think he was as good as his numbers show because of the lack of playoff success. They think he wasn't clutch. They don't respect him because of the team's failure.

I think it will be the same with Dak (and currently is). The only way to shut them up is to win a Super Bowl.

Now, I don't think there is a lack of respect for either QB among GMs and executives. I think coaches and most players also know how good they are. They understand there is more to winning than who's behind center.
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Yeah most fans don’t have the cognitive ability to look at all factors involved in getting to the playoffs. They fact they blame in on one person is proof. And many of those fans get all their takes from the likes of SAS, and other talking heads getting PAID to create controversy. What better way than talk about the Dallas Cowboys. Ignorant fans eat it up because it plays to the inner desire, one they’ll deny, to be negative about everything.
 
Redsfan_83 said:
But....they can lose it for you, and not give your team a fighting chance

Source: 30 years of Dallas Cowboys football
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Does it amaze you that Jim Kelly had four tries at winning a Superbowl and failed.... then all of a sudden, Nick Foles, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer come right on in and win the Superbowl on their first try?

Is it fair to say that if either Dilfer, Johnson or Foles had played on those Bills Superbowl teams that they all could have won 1 or 2 Superbowls for Buffalo?

Think about that for a minute.... Jim Kelly had arguably a better overall team and coaching than the other 3 quarterbacks that I've named and couldn't win one like they did. Crazy huh....
 
GINeric said:
Is it Dak need to win in the playoffs or do the Dallas Cowboys need to win in the playoffs? No quarterback in NFL history has ever won playoff games by themselves.


"They aren't out there playing singles" - Bill Parcells
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Dak has played well enough to win twice. He just needed to play better to help them beat SF. He didn't. Of course it's a team sport but the QB needs to be great in the playoffs.
 
OK...Purcells...

We're not playing singles, but one of the doubles makes 75% of the cash and the other 25%...who is getting blamed then?
 
GINeric said:
Does it amaze you that Jim Kelly had four tries at winning a Superbowl and failed.... then all of a sudden, Nick Foles, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer come right on in and win the Superbowl on their first try?

Is it fair to say that if either Dilfer, Johnson or Foles had played on those Bills Superbowl teams that they all could have won 1 or 2 Superbowls for Buffalo?

Think about that for a minute.... Jim Kelly had arguably a better overall team and coaching than the other 3 quarterbacks that I've named and couldn't win one like they did. Crazy huh....
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There are a ton of discussion points:

- Were those 3 guys a success as byproducts of the teams they were on? Without deep-diving, I say yes

- Jim Kelly? Has been to multiple Super Bowls, and nothing. Is that a byproduct of him, or the team? See Josh Allen, who I think is great, but he does NOT get enough criticism for his choking when it counts. However, put Andy or Sean on the Bills? Would things be different? You betcha

- Kelly and Josh are both 1st-rd picks, and more was expected...Dak was a 4th-rd pick; expectations have been too high, but he has needed every available weapon to succeed. Put the same coaches on Dallas; does Dak win a ring? I have a hard time thinking not. Stafford as the QB of the Dallas Cowboys? Probably similar stats to what he has had, but no ring. Call Burrow/Goff, et al, about that scenario

- Lamar has had the coaching/front office, right? 1st round pick as well, and I will argue to no end that he is the most overrated QB in the history of the NFL
 
GINeric said:
Does it amaze you that Jim Kelly had four tries at winning a Superbowl and failed.... then all of a sudden, Nick Foles, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer come right on in and win the Superbowl on their first try?

Is it fair to say that if either Dilfer, Johnson or Foles had played on those Bills Superbowl teams that they all could have won 1 or 2 Superbowls for Buffalo?

Think about that for a minute.... Jim Kelly had arguably a better overall team and coaching than the other 3 quarterbacks that I've named and couldn't win one like they did. Crazy huh....
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I do think this also points to the luck involved. The years that Foles, Johnson and Dilfer won, I don't think there was a 1990s Dallas Cowboys dynasty standing in their way. It's kind of like San Francisco and Dallas going toe to toe in the playoffs back then. There always was going to be a loser even if either of those teams were good enough to win the Super Bowl. I think Buffalo was probably the third-best team. Their best chance at a title during Kelly's days was the first one, where Scott Norwood missed the game-winning kick wide right from 47 yards out. That certainly wasn't on the QB.
 
Redsfan_83 said:
There are a ton of discussion points:

- Were those 3 guys a success as byproducts of the teams they were on? Without deep-diving, I say yes

- Jim Kelly? Has been to multiple Super Bowls, and nothing. Is that a byproduct of him, or the team? See Josh Allen, who I think is great, but he does NOT get enough criticism for his choking when it counts. However, put Andy or Sean on the Bills? Would things be different? You betcha

- Kelly and Josh are both 1st-rd picks, and more was expected...Dak was a 4th-rd pick; expectations have been too high, but he has needed every available weapon to succeed. Put the same coaches on Dallas; does Dak win a ring? I have a hard time thinking not. Stafford as the QB of the Dallas Cowboys? Probably similar stats to what he has had, but no ring. Call Burrow/Goff, et al, about that scenario

- Lamar has had the coaching/front office, right? 1st round pick as well, and I will argue to no end that he is the most overrated QB in the history of the NFL
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And you made some incredible points and beautifully broke down different scenarios involving the TEAM. This goes back to my point why attaching post season records to just the quarterback is really inaccurate.

If we stick with post season records for quarterbacks alone, then as crazy as it sounds, Dilfer, Foles, and Johnson have the advantage of the Superbowl wins vs the quarterbacks who don't.

Again, im being extremely serious when I said I love your whole breakdown because I believe thats how it should be broken down when discussing TEAM success or failure. There are too many moving parts on a football franchise to just say, this quarterback is 6-2 or 0-4 or 2-5 in the playoffs as a measurement of how good or bad a quarterback is.... because if that determines whether a quarterback is better or worse than other quarterbacks due to a post season record, then we have to acknowledge that all Superbowl winning quarterbacks are automatically better than all non-Superbowl winning quarterbacks.
 
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