Defensive positives and negatives and where improvement must come

[blueblood70]

That’s why I thought getting some help for the pass rush was way more important than getting a corner. Porter can be good but I’m not sure even a guy like Deion or Champ Bailey can cover somebody for 10 seconds, lol

I disagree they needed both they made a choice on one and like Jerry said it takes two to tango who was really out there that the Cowboys can make a deal with for a really good move that would have helped the pass rush you have to have the other teams willing to trade guys and the right guys for the right kind of deal it just doesn't click overnight they needed both absolutely the same critical area of need it it was about Even so they found the one they could get and they went and got him..

The front end and the back end can both work together and at least it does help that they have one less hopefully one less easy open guy to get rid of the ball because the pressure has been there if they could take one Reed away especially some of these NFL quarterbacks are not so good at reading defenses they throw on the 1st read or they start to get happy feet and they might take off and run they gotta stop that that's all three work together Bob I mean we pressured the hell out of Jayden Daniels but they just couldn't get to him but again the 2nd level couldn't come up and make a tackle We needed all to come together and this is one less big area of need now..

And you can bring pressure if you can trust the back end you can bring a corner blitz or bring it from off the ball linebacker inside slot guy it could be downs come on the blitz you could start creating pressure if you could start trusting your back end The the the problem is they've been open too quickly just like in game one they're just dumping the ball off to the same spot all game and the corners weren't coming up and doing their job the safeties weren't doing their job the linebackers weren't doing their job so you could say it was pass rush and I can say that Malachi Lawrence has the highest pressure rate out of all the rookies right now EZE is good at getting pressures in most games they just aren't getting home but maybe this move with Joey Porter junior gives him an extra second and maybe they do get there..

There were so many holes they filled one now one less hole my man and let me tell you this I still believe that Overstone could be ready by the Buccaneers game given the fact that the linebackers have been playing well you don't touch that winters next to Barham but you can makeover shown that guy whether you want to make it from a box safety that you just use on pass rush or you can make him an outside linebacker and turning him into a pass rusher he's right there he's available one guy we believe is athletically talented very quick You move him to an area of need..

Do truly believe he could be that kind of difference maker I think it would refresh him physically and mentally to say hey we need you Don't say you can't play linebacker very well say we really need your skills here go after the quarterback and maybe Von Miller will start doing his job too..

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I think Porter could help the pass rush with sticky coverage. I've already seen that Ezeiruaku and Lawrence in particular have good pressure rates. If the qb has to hold the ball a tick longer then maybe some of the sacks materialize.

I believe you beatme to it.

 

[morasp]

We held, King Henry, to under 100 yards

Not bad. The QB rushes have hurt us quite a bit. Someone said the amount of man coverage we're playing was partly responsible. I looked it up and in their SB season the Eagles allowed an average of 104 rushing yards/game

 

[Bobhaze]

Well thats not true at all.

It is true we had zero sacks. Pressure? Not effective pressure.

The last decade, our Cowboys are 0-10 in games where we have zero sacks and zero TOs. Last Sunday was one of those.

However anyone wants to say it, we do not have an effective pass rush through three games. Hopefully it gets better.

 

[Whirlwin]

I actually think we generated pressure, we just didn’t wrap up the Mobile quarterback. I’m not sure who the Houston quarterback is, but he can’t be his Mobile as what we’ve been facing, I see a sack or two, this week.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Game 3 positive and negatives vs the ravens and more importantly where this defense MUST improve…
POSITIVES - honestly not many but here they are:

• The ravens had 12 possessions and we forced 3 punts and two 4th down stops.
• We had two red zone stops
• Held Derrick Henry to less than 4 yds per carry.

NEGATIVES

• 34 points on 387 yds; 7 splash plays (20 yards or more)
• Lamar Jackson had no pressure and had a 9.2 yards per attempt passing, well above leave avg.
• Gave up nearly 200 yds rushing
• No sacks
• Zero turnovers

Btw - interesting stat from Bob Sturm on Cowboys defense the last decade: We are 0-10 in games where we get no sacks and no turnovers. The defense that led the NFL in TOs during the Dan Quinn era is long gone, at least at the moment.

WHERE WE MUST IMPROVE TO HAVE A SHOT AT BEING A PLAYOFF TEAM

• We must start getting some sacks and TOs) No sacks or to’s mean we have no chance. (Again we are 0-10 in last decade when we get no sacks and no TOs)
• Stop giving up so many big plays.
• Stop the run. (Where have we heard this before?)

One reason I’m a little “meh” on the Joey Porter trade - he won’t pressure the QB. It’s hard to get picks when there’s no pass rush.

So I will be watching to see if we can manufacture any kind of pass rush the next few weeks. Through 18% of the season, our defense has to blitz to get pressure which puts it all on the secondary. Maybe Porter helps in coverage some. Time will tell.

No sacks and no turnovers means no pressure, which means giving up big plays...

 

[Whirlwin]

No sacks and no turnovers means no pressure, which means giving up big plays...

We got pressure, the quarterback escaped, we were all over them at least a dozen times, and I’m screaming make the tackle, so it’s not like we’re not getting there, we’re just not following through

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

We got pressure, the quarterback escaped, we were all over them at least a dozen times, and I’m screaming make the tackle, so it’s not like we’re not getting there, we’re just not following through

If hen8sngetting away, he is buying time, and it leads to big plays...

 

[Gambit]

It is true we had zero sacks. Pressure? Not effective pressure.

The last decade, our Cowboys are 0-10 in games where we have zero sacks and zero TOs. Last Sunday was one of those.

However anyone wants to say it, we do not have an effective pass rush through three games. Hopefully it gets better.

Ignoring your obvious goal post moving, we actually had 7 pressures in 20 attempts against Ravens.

5 QB hurries
1 QB hit
1 QB knockdown

Thats a pressure rate of 35%. Clearly not " Lamar Jackson had no pressure"

Define what you mean by "effective" pressures. Because it seems youre ignoring the special nature that Lamar has in running.

Only stat I could find was on chatgpt for games where Defense had no sacks and no turnovers was a record of 25-178 or a .090 winning percentage league wide. Im not convinced there are 17 games a year that happens.

No one is disputing lack of sacks or turnovers. I was merely pointing out you said no pressures, and that's not an accuurate reflection of what is happening on the field.

 

[gtb1943]

Ignoring your obvious goal post moving, we actually had 7 pressures in 20 attempts against Ravens.

5 QB hurries
1 QB hit
1 QB knockdown

Thats a pressure rate of 35%. Clearly not " Lamar Jackson had no pressure"

Define what you mean by "effective" pressures. Because it seems youre ignoring the special nature that Lamar has in running.

Only stat I could find was on chatgpt for games where Defense had no sacks and no turnovers was a record of 25-178 or a .090 winning percentage league wide. Im not convinced there are 17 games a year that happens.

No one is disputing lack of sacks or turnovers. I was merely pointing out you said no pressures, and that's not an accuurate reflection of what is happening on the field.

there is pressure and there is EFFECTIVE pressure
we lacked that in this game
a hurry is subjective to how the QB normally is
what is pressure or a hurry to a scrub is not a pressure or a hurry to say Mahomes

 

[morasp]

Seems like we say that every year.

Very true

 

[Cowboys5217]

Gary sets the edge very well and is getting hate for it!!!!!

If that is true then why do we get gashed by runs to the edges and repeatedly killed by passes to the flats?

 

[Gambit]

there is pressure and there is EFFECTIVE pressure
we lacked that in this game
a hurry is subjective to how the QB normally is
what is pressure or a hurry to a scrub is not a pressure or a hurry to say Mahomes

You jumped into the middle so ill catch you up.

The term effective was only added AFTER I pointed out that Bob was wrong when he said there was NO pressure.

Ive clearly given just stats to show that was in error. Ive not even included video of said pressures.

Any time a QB is knocked off his spot or forced to scramble is in effect an effective pressure by definition. The DL/LB/DB effectively pressured the QB to alter something.

This is where better CBs and safety play can show why they were traded for. Improve coverage so those pressures can get home.

 

[Diehardblues]

I’m afraid Von Miller may be hearing the not so gentle tap on the door by Father Time, reminding us that FT is undefeated and every great player has a shelf life.

Looks like Miller’s expiration date has come due.

Didn’t he have like 7 or 8 sacks last year? Surely it wouldn’t be that much of a falloff in one season.

I’m thinking our defensive woes may have more to do with scheme.

 

[Diehardblues]

Kwyn I do agree with you that there probably isn’t much available in a trade now as far as impact pass rushers.

BUT - a good front office - especially one with 38 years of experience should have seen before the season started we had no pass rushers.

IMO they didn’t see it because they suck at roster evaluation. They believe in their own best case scenarios until it’s too late. Very reactionary crew. And the only accountability for will be getting rid of some coaches. Who may deserve it but they aren’t the biggest issue.

They had some concern or wouldn’t have brought Von Miller in after preseason.

 

[rambo2]

Game 3 positive and negatives vs the ravens and more importantly where this defense MUST improve…
POSITIVES - honestly not many but here they are:

• The ravens had 12 possessions and we forced 3 punts and two 4th down stops.
• We had two red zone stops
• Held Derrick Henry to less than 4 yds per carry.

NEGATIVES

• 34 points on 387 yds; 7 splash plays (20 yards or more)
• Lamar Jackson had no pressure and had a 9.2 yards per attempt passing, well above leave avg.
• Gave up nearly 200 yds rushing
• No sacks
• Zero turnovers

Btw - interesting stat from Bob Sturm on Cowboys defense the last decade: We are 0-10 in games where we get no sacks and no turnovers. The defense that led the NFL in TOs during the Dan Quinn era is long gone, at least at the moment.

WHERE WE MUST IMPROVE TO HAVE A SHOT AT BEING A PLAYOFF TEAM

• We must start getting some sacks and TOs) No sacks or to’s mean we have no chance. (Again we are 0-10 in last decade when we get no sacks and no TOs)
• Stop giving up so many big plays.
• Stop the run. (Where have we heard this before?)

One reason I’m a little “meh” on the Joey Porter trade - he won’t pressure the QB. It’s hard to get picks when there’s no pass rush.

So I will be watching to see if we can manufacture any kind of pass rush the next few weeks. Through 18% of the season, our defense has to blitz to get pressure which puts it all on the secondary. Maybe Porter helps in coverage some. Time will tell.

They have gotten pressure without a blitz. They should be able to get pressure against Houston and yes Porter does help.

 

[Bobhaze]

Ignoring your obvious goal post moving, we actually had 7 pressures in 20 attempts against Ravens.

5 QB hurries
1 QB hit
1 QB knockdown

Thats a pressure rate of 35%. Clearly not " Lamar Jackson had no pressure"

Define what you mean by "effective" pressures. Because it seems youre ignoring the special nature that Lamar has in running.

Only stat I could find was on chatgpt for games where Defense had no sacks and no turnovers was a record of 25-178 or a .090 winning percentage league wide. Im not convinced there are 17 games a year that happens.

No one is disputing lack of sacks or turnovers. I was merely pointing out you said no pressures, and that's not an accuurate reflection of what is happening on the field.

My definition of effective pressure is the kind that helps you win. A pressure rate of 35% is clearly not getting it done.

Maybe we improve this week. Hope so. I just don’t see how it can be said that we have an effective pass rush. At least in my opinion.

 

[kskboys]

If that is true then why do we get gashed by runs to the edges and repeatedly killed by passes to the flats?

There are two edges.

 

[Gambit]

My definition of effective pressure is the kind that helps you win. A pressure rate of 35% is clearly not getting it done.

Maybe we improve this week. Hope so. I just don’t see how it can be said that we have an effective pass rush. At least in my opinion.

Well 35% is higher than league average.

We are lacking sacks. But we've played 3 of the most mobile QBs in the league with a diminishing defensive backfield.

Lawerence is actually leading rookies with pass rush win rate.