Question for the weight lifters

[Future]

Vitamins, fish oil, creatine, and whey protein are staples.

Food is more important. Eat one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight. These are the most simple steps in bodybuilding.

I've seen that before. There's no way it's right for the average weightlifter.

I way 285-90 lbs. 285 grams of protein per day is ridiculous.

Unless you're in the gym all day, every day, there's no reason to. A little bit more than a third of your calories should be protein, so if you're up that high, you'd be onlike a 7,000 calorie diet or something ridiculous.

 

[Jenky]

I've seen that before. There's no way it's right for the average weightlifter.

I way 285-90 lbs. 285 grams of protein per day is ridiculous.

Unless you're in the gym all day, every day, there's no reason to. A little bit more than a third of your calories should be protein, so if you're up that high, you'd be onlike a 7,000 calorie diet or something ridiculous.

Can honestly say its all over the place. I've seen 0.7 grams of protein per lb to insane numbers such as 2.0+ grams of protein per lbs.

1.0 gram of protein per lb (of lean body mass) is easier to calculate, so it's the most widely thrown around number in the fitness community.

 

[Future]

Can honestly say its all over the place. I've seen 0.7 grams of protein per lb to insane numbers such as 2.0+ grams of protein per lbs.

1.0 gram of protein per lb (of lean body mass) is easier to calculate, so it's the most widely thrown around number in the fitness community.

I'm more opposed to a hard and fast rule....like 1 g per lb. I can't stop giggling about the idea of eating 285 grams of protein lol

14 Cliff Builder's Bars
48 eggs
9+ chicken breasts
14 cups of almonds

Granted, you wouldn't do that, it's just funny how much food that is

 

[TheCowboy]

I've seen that before. There's no way it's right for the average weightlifter.

I way 285-90 lbs. 285 grams of protein per day is ridiculous.

Unless you're in the gym all day, every day, there's no reason to. A little bit more than a third of your calories should be protein, so if you're up that high, you'd be onlike a 7,000 calorie diet or something ridiculous.

I'm cutting right now on 2800 cals and 320 grams of protein. You'll definitely see a difference when you up your protein intake. Especially if you're cutting it's essential.

 

[KJJ]

I use Optimum Nutrition whey isolate for protein powder.

http://www.amazon.com/Optimum-Nutrition-Standard-Double-Chocolate/dp/B000QSNYGI

Taste is good, lots of flavors, good protein/AA profile, and it's relatively affordable on Amazon if you're just looking for a good supplement.

I use that one it's their gold standard whey protein. Some make the mistake of going with cheap whey protein which contains fillers it's low quality and ends up being a waste of money.

 

[Future]

I'm cutting right now on 2800 cals and 320 grams of protein. You'll definitely see a difference when you up your protein intake. Especially if you're cutting it's essential.

Yes, I know there's a difference when you up protein. The average should take in like 2,500 to 2,700 cals a day. idk what your goals are or why you lift, but you could cut weight by simply dropping about 1,000 calories off your diet and still getting 100+ grams.

What I'm saying is, for the average person, even someone who lifts regularly - not trying to be a body builder like you apparently are lol - that much protein is totally unnecessary.

You also "cheat" by taking vitamins and supplements. To me, that's a shortcut and makes it difficult to sustain anything in the long term. The right eating and exercise habits, long term, will get you strong, defined, and healthy. You just won't be a bodybuilder.

For someone who hasn't lifted in a decade, like the OP, any kind of diet/regiment that you're talking about is way exaggerated.

 

[KJJ]

Unless you're bulking for some particular reason, there really is no need to take supplements.

Just eat crap tons of chicken and you'll develop healthy muscle that won't fade as fast

Anyone who lifts weights should take a protein supplement and use a recovery drink as part of their regime. When you lift you need more protein to repair the muscle fibers that have been torn down and whey protein absorbs quick.

 

[KJJ]

Branch chain amino acids should be taken as part of any weight lifting program they help in recovery. This product by MRM is one of the better BCAA products it's a powder which is lemonade flavored so it's good tasting. The site below is a good site for supplements they have a large selection and their prices are good.


http://www.prosource.net/?gclid=Cj0...jSzyrVR997LxXCgy2uF33Rv_nfJaHxUPbgaAm8H8P8HAQ

 

[Future]

Anyone who lifts weights should take a protein supplement and use a recovery drink as part of their regime. When you lift you need more protein to repair the muscle fibers that have been torn down and whey protein absorbs quick.

No. Depends on goals and schedules, but the idea that those things are essential is a myth. They're a quick fix. You can eat protein-rich foods throughout the day in lieu of a supplement and then go heavy on a protein meal after lifting. You don't need any of those drinks supplements...though I do eat a PowerBar or something from time to time.

I'll just use myself as example. .

I eat Greek yogurt, a banana, and almonds for breakfast every day. Roughly 50 grams.
Lunch is either tuna or eggs, generally speaking. Another 25-30 grams.
Snack after work before the gym is usually a Cliff/Zone bar 14 grams.
Dinner afterwords is two chicken breasts. 60ish

That's roughly 250 cals a day, plus the occasional bagel for breakfast, burrito for lunch, pizza for dinner, etc. and I drink probably 3 times a weak. Plus some snacks in the office and coffee, the occasional soda, etc. etc.

Since mid-Jan, I've lost roughly 15 lbs, max bench has gone up 30 lbs, and squat max has gone up almost 100 lbs (granted, I skipped leg day for like 13 years lol). Plus, my 40 yard dash and shuttles have gone down and vertical increased 4". That's without a harsh diet or being strict.

What works for everyone is different, but the notion that you need extreme diets or all these supplements is just untrue.

 

[TheCowboy]

Yes, I know there's a difference when you up protein. The average should take in like 2,500 to 2,700 cals a day. idk what your goals are or why you lift, but you could cut weight by simply dropping about 1,000 calories off your diet and still getting 100+ grams.

What I'm saying is, for the average person, even someone who lifts regularly - not trying to be a body builder like you apparently are lol - that much protein is totally unnecessary.

You also "cheat" by taking vitamins and supplements. To me, that's a shortcut and makes it difficult to sustain anything in the long term. The right eating and exercise habits, long term, will get you strong, defined, and healthy. You just won't be a bodybuilder.

For someone who hasn't lifted in a decade, like the OP, any kind of diet/regiment that you're talking about is way exaggerated.

To be honest I'd still recommend him getting one gram of protein in per bodyweight. That's minimum. I'm 240 lbs and eat over, but that's because I've been doing this for a long time. We should know his weight first before any further discussion about this.

 

[TheCowboy]

By the way, you do not need a protein shake after a workout. At the end of the day it's calories in calories out. Post workout meals, however are extremely important.

 

[Idgit]

I use that one it's their gold standard whey protein. Some make the mistake of going with cheap whey protein which contains fillers it's low quality and ends up being a waste of money.

Yeah, I don't use it for bulk because I add bulk pretty easily, but I'm on a ketogenic diet from time to time so it's important to get a clean source of protein that's not full of filler or carbs. And ON is pretty tasty, too, which is a plus.

 

[KJJ]

I am just getting back into lifting weights after a 10 year absence in the weight room. I was a power lifter and played football for from 5th grade to varsity.

But I would like to know what would you gym rats recommend for supplements,protein powder for shakes. Amino acids. or anything else you would recommend to pack on muscle mass and strength.

Btw... I haven't ruled out steroids.

Protein shakes are essential when starting a weight lifting program because they provide a quick convenient high protein meal. You want to have 4-5 meals and throwing in a couple of protein shakes makes it easy when you're on the go. You can only digest so much protein in one meal so you need several meals to meet your protein requirements for whatever goals you have. Don't make the mistake of throwing some whey protein in a glass of water and consider that a meal replacement it's not! It doesn't contain all the nutrients so be sure it's a true "meal replacement" shake you're having.

You can purchase them ready to drink or you can make your own if you're on a budget. Get a coffee grinder and grind up some oatmeal and add it to some whey protein, flax seed and you have a cheap meal replacement. It's a little grainy going down but you can make it taste good. You can grind oatmeal and add it along with a banana and other things to make some great protein shakes. If someone is looking to put on weight you can create a high calorie shake this way.

 

[KJJ]

No. Depends on goals and schedules, but the idea that those things are essential is a myth. They're a quick fix. You can eat protein-rich foods throughout the day in lieu of a supplement and then go heavy on a protein meal after lifting. You don't need any of those drinks supplements...though I do eat a PowerBar or something from time to time.

I'll just use myself as example. .

I eat Greek yogurt, a banana, and almonds for breakfast every day. Roughly 50 grams.
Lunch is either tuna or eggs, generally speaking. Another 25-30 grams.
Snack after work before the gym is usually a Cliff/Zone bar 14 grams.
Dinner afterwords is two chicken breasts. 60ish

That's roughly 250 cals a day, plus the occasional bagel for breakfast, burrito for lunch, pizza for dinner, etc. and I drink probably 3 times a weak. Plus some snacks in the office and coffee, the occasional soda, etc. etc.

Since mid-Jan, I've lost roughly 15 lbs, max bench has gone up 30 lbs, and squat max has gone up almost 100 lbs (granted, I skipped leg day for like 13 years lol). Plus, my 40 yard dash and shuttles have gone down and vertical increased 4". That's without a harsh diet or being strict.

What works for everyone is different, but the notion that you need extreme diets or all these supplements is just untrue.

Whatever works for you but everyone is different. Genetics play a big part as well as nutrition. I had a friend in college who had huge vascular biceps and hardy ever lifted. His diet consisted of pizza and beer but you would never know it by looking at him. Ready to drink meal replacement shakes are convenient they can be taken to the gym and thrown down immediately after a workout. They contain digestive enzymes that aid in absorption and your muscles need protein after lifting to recover and repair. If you eat a high protein meal without a digestive aid you can only absorb about 30 grams of protein. If someone is looking to build muscle they need a gram to a gram and a half of protein per pound of their body weight so most need to supplement their diet with a protein powder/bar or meal replacement shake.

 

[Hoov]

There have been studies in medical journals that i have read about the protein requirements for athletes.

First thing that I found interesting is that while weight lifting breaks down muscle - 75% of the amino acids that are relased are recycled to form new proteins.

Weightlifters were able to maintain a postive nitrogen balance with taking only .8gm of protein/kg body weight for several weeks. If you are weightlifting and you want to be in an anabolic state it is probable better to take more than the .8gm protein/kg that was used in this study. The study did not go into details regarding whether or not the wieghtlifters were lifting to maintain strength or to increase size and increase strength. But it was interesting that the individuals were able to maintain a positive nitrogen balance with only .8gm protein/kg. I beleive they were lifting weights 3 x week for an hour session.

Interstingly a study on endurance athletes suggested that they may have elevated protein requirements due to the fact that after about 90 minuets of continued exercise the body depletes its glycogen stores and will start to breakdown protein for fuel.

Fatty acids have long carbon chains so it requires a lot more oxygen to break down those chains than to break down carbs and protein. So if you are exercising for 90 minuets or more on a regular basis you may be utilizing protein for energy.

I would guess than 1-1.2gm/kg body weight is plenty of protein for athletes. Kg = Lb divided by 2.2.

So 180 lb person = 81.8kg x 1-1.2 = 81.8-98gm protein daily.

Which is not hard at all to acheive without supplements. Most sandwiches or platters that you will get for lunch have 5-8 ounces of meat/cheese which is going to be 35-56gm protein for that one meal. Add up the bits of protein in bread, pasta and other non meat and non dairy items and the avg person probably eats 15-25gm protein from non meat and non dairy items a day.

So basically, if you eat a source of high biological value protein (generally eggs, dairy, meat, poultry, fish) with lunch and with dinner you are probably eating 100gm of protein a day or more depending on portion size. If you want to count protein a general rule of thumb is that 1oz of meat/cheese has 7 gm protein. 1 cup of milk has 8gm. For othet items read the food labels. Beans and and pasta are non meat high protein foods.

The complete proteins (high biological value proteins) have all the amino acids in them though different foods will have more or less of certain ones.

I really dont see a need at all for protein supplement unless you are trying to avoid the additional calories from fat that may be found in meats and high protein foods. Of course you could eat turkey and chicken breast to have a low fat/high protein diet as well.

There are amino acid supplements out there in the pill form which are a waste of money. They break down the thoudands of miligrams of each particular amino acid to make you think you are getting a lot. Then when you read the label closer you will see that something like 10 giant pills will get you only about 5-6 gm of protein. 1 Egg has 6-7gm of protein and those same amino acids in the pills will be in that egg.

Another benefit of a protein powder would be that it is protein already broken down and so when mixed in a liquid form it will digest quicker than eating a peice of meat. However i dont know if this will have a speedier effect on muscle recovery time as it is generally understood that muscles take 48-72 hours to heal and strengthen after a session of weight lifting.

 

[KJJ]

I am just getting back into lifting weights after a 10 year absence in the weight room. I was a power lifter and played football for from 5th grade to varsity.

But I would like to know what would you gym rats recommend for supplements,protein powder for shakes. Amino acids. or anything else you would recommend to pack on muscle mass and strength.

Btw... I haven't ruled out steroids.

This is a great site to learn about supplements and workouts from a large fitness community.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com

 

[Hoov]

My above post was for people not taking steroids. If a person was taking steroids (which im not advocating anyone to do so by posting this) from what i understand, the body will heal and build muscle quicker so that a person could work out again with a shorter recovery time. In this instance - taking additional protein MAY be utilized by the body. It seems logical at least to assume this given that the body is going to respong and grow much faster.

 

[Hoov]

Oh, one more thing. In the above post where i suggested 1-1.2 gm protein/kg that is based on lean body mass.

So that if you were a beginner starting to train and you are say 100 lbs overweight - you would not want to count that 100 lbs in your calculation because you are not going to feed the fat if that makes any sense. There is a specific formula to get an adjusted body weight. Though since this thread is about bulking up im assuming that its not for people trying to lose weight. But just for reference - you should use an adjusted weight to calculate your calorie or protein needs anytime you are working with someone who is significantly overweight

 

[Jenky]

Branch chain amino acids should be taken as part of any weight lifting program they help in recovery. This product by MRM is one of the better BCAA products it's a powder which is lemonade flavored so it's good tasting. The site below is a good site for supplements they have a large selection and their prices are good.


http://www.prosource.net/?gclid=Cj0...jSzyrVR997LxXCgy2uF33Rv_nfJaHxUPbgaAm8H8P8HAQ

Just my opinion:

I don't think BCAA's are necessary unless you are dieting and are a crazy caloric deficit or training fasted (yes, I know taking BCAAs can break the fast).

If diet is on point and you are eating right (to maintain weight or caloric surplus) than your recovery should be good.

I'd save the money and put it towards food or whey which has BCAAs in itself.

 

[Jenky]

There have been studies in medical journals that i have read about the protein requirements for athletes.

First thing that I found interesting is that while weight lifting breaks down muscle - 75% of the amino acids that are relased are recycled to form new proteins.

Weightlifters were able to maintain a postive nitrogen balance with taking only .8gm of protein/kg body weight for several weeks. If you are weightlifting and you want to be in an anabolic state it is probable better to take more than the .8gm protein/kg that was used in this study. The study did not go into details regarding whether or not the wieghtlifters were lifting to maintain strength or to increase size and increase strength. But it was interesting that the individuals were able to maintain a positive nitrogen balance with only .8gm protein/kg. I beleive they were lifting weights 3 x week for an hour session.

Interstingly a study on endurance athletes suggested that they may have elevated protein requirements due to the fact that after about 90 minuets of continued exercise the body depletes its glycogen stores and will start to breakdown protein for fuel.

Fatty acids have long carbon chains so it requires a lot more oxygen to break down those chains than to break down carbs and protein. So if you are exercising for 90 minuets or more on a regular basis you may be utilizing protein for energy.

I would guess than 1-1.2gm/kg body weight is plenty of protein for athletes. Kg = Lb divided by 2.2.

So 180 lb person = 81.8kg x 1-1.2 = 81.8-98gm protein daily.

Which is not hard at all to acheive without supplements. Most sandwiches or platters that you will get for lunch have 5-8 ounces of meat/cheese which is going to be 35-56gm protein for that one meal. Add up the bits of protein in bread, pasta and other non meat and non dairy items and the avg person probably eats 15-25gm protein from non meat and non dairy items a day.

So basically, if you eat a source of high biological value protein (generally eggs, dairy, meat, poultry, fish) with lunch and with dinner you are probably eating 100gm of protein a day or more depending on portion size. If you want to count protein a general rule of thumb is that 1oz of meat/cheese has 7 gm protein. 1 cup of milk has 8gm. For othet items read the food labels. Beans and and pasta are non meat high protein foods.

The complete proteins (high biological value proteins) have all the amino acids in them though different foods will have more or less of certain ones.

I really dont see a need at all for protein supplement unless you are trying to avoid the additional calories from fat that may be found in meats and high protein foods. Of course you could eat turkey and chicken breast to have a low fat/high protein diet as well.

There are amino acid supplements out there in the pill form which are a waste of money. They break down the thoudands of miligrams of each particular amino acid to make you think you are getting a lot. Then when you read the label closer you will see that something like 10 giant pills will get you only about 5-6 gm of protein. 1 Egg has 6-7gm of protein and those same amino acids in the pills will be in that egg.

Another benefit of a protein powder would be that it is protein already broken down and so when mixed in a liquid form it will digest quicker than eating a peice of meat. However i dont know if this will have a speedier effect on muscle recovery time as it is generally understood that muscles take 48-72 hours to heal and strengthen after a session of weight lifting.

1 serving of whey is usually cheaper than the equivalent amount of protein you get in purchasing solid food i.e. chicken breast, steak, etc.

Sure you can buy cans of tuna for < $1.00 but I personally can't stomach that every day. Buying mass amounts of eggs would be another option.

Whey is economical, convenient and allows you to hit your macronutrient needs.