Great mailbag question that never had occurred to me

[physeter]

Great article on the Perfect Man

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/dec/14/lp-ladouceur-long-snapper-dallas-cowboys-nfl

(Hope that posting links is still allowed here, if not Mods please delete)

 

[plasticman]

The Cowboys were absolutely blessed in the late 70's and early 80's. Their backup quarterback was a great punter.

Even if Danny White never played a single down of quarterback in college, he would still have an NFL career.

This essentially freed up an extra roster spot for the Cowboys for a whole decade. He continued to be the punter even after he became the starting quarterback.

Another advantage was that it created a lot of nervous uncertainty on opponents punt coverage. Every once in a while, Danny would throw on 4th. It depended on the circumstances, Danny was trained to make that choice. Even worse for opponents, Danny White had exceptional speed for a quarterback in those days, he was a good runner. Therefore, every 4th down was basically a triple option play.

The Cowboys didn't sacrifice anything, Danny White is ranked 15th in average yards per punt for the 70's and 80's combined, minimum 500 punts. He was ranked 8th in least blocked, only 5 in a ten year career.

Danny took the Cowboys to three consecutive NFC championships and was a "catch" away from a Super Bowl while working two jobs. I can't think of any other in the Super Bowl era that did the same for ten seasons.

 

[xwalker]

... and contrary to the brush-off that the "experts" essentially give, it makes complete sense in the context of how hard it is to decide on who the 53rd player is going to be every August, and all of the coaches' talk the rest of the year about the joys of position flex.

Then, how about all the hub-bub last season when... wasn't it Philly?... who lost their primary and back-up long snappers, and ended up with... was it a RB or WR?... filling in, and screwing up?

Dunno. Seems very tempting to ask "are we really just doing it this way because it's how it's always been done?," and to start right now this time of year grooming a couple of players to compete for the job who might otherwise be on the fence when preseason ends.

The long snapper also has to cover punts returns.

If not for that requirement, Dale Hellestrae would still be doing it.

A backup Center like Joe Looney would not likely be a good option to cover punt returns.

 

[xwalker]

L.P. is literally 100 percent perfect with his snaps since he got here. That's unfathomable.

Imagine it being only 95%. That could cost you two games a year. Minimum.

Not on does the ball arrive perfectly, but LP actually gets it there with the exact same rotation (i.e. laces in the exact same position).

 

[LatinMind]

... and contrary to the brush-off that the "experts" essentially give, it makes complete sense in the context of how hard it is to decide on who the 53rd player is going to be every August, and all of the coaches' talk the rest of the year about the joys of position flex.

Then, how about all the hub-bub last season when... wasn't it Philly?... who lost their primary and back-up long snappers, and ended up with... was it a RB or WR?... filling in, and screwing up?

Dunno. Seems very tempting to ask "are we really just doing it this way because it's how it's always been done?," and to start right now this time of year grooming a couple of players to compete for the job who might otherwise be on the fence when preseason ends.

This post actually makes me question how long you've been a cowboys fan. Because before LP was a cowboy, Dallas couldn't make a long snap. It was seriously a huge problem for the team. Which is why LP is on bthe team.

 

[xwalker]

This post actually makes me question how long you've been a cowboys fan. Because before LP was a cowboy, Dallas couldn't make a long snap. It was seriously a huge problem for the team. Which is why LP is on bthe team.

To be clear, that was for 4 seasons (between Hellestrae and LP).

Oddly they had Jon Condo at some point during that timeframe. Condo has since been to the Pro Bowl with the Raiders.

 

[jobberone]

There was that one snap last season when he was .003286 mm off target.

Is that you Spock.?! I knew they would retrieve your body somewhere and have someone do a mindmeld to restore you.

 

[LatinMind]

To be clear, that was for 4 seasons (between Hellestrae and LP).

Oddly they had Jon Condo at some point during that timeframe. Condo has since been to the Pro Bowl with the Raiders.

I don't think the OP was questioning the need for LP. But to anybody that would question the need for LP. I'd just shake my head

 

[_sturt_]

This post actually makes me question how long you've been a cowboys fan. Because before LP was a cowboy, Dallas couldn't make a long snap. It was seriously a huge problem for the team. Which is why LP is on bthe team.

Yikes... hehe... having my longevity as a Cowboys fan questioned by another fan? Annnnnd because of, of all things, my attitude about our long snapper???

Oh, the humanity.

First, yeah, you've got me if you recall a time when it was "seriously a huge problem for the team" in any long-term way. As someone else noted above, we've been pretty blessed in that way, though I doubt the book has yet to be written... nay, even the Bleacher Report article for that matter... comparing one team's history of long snappers with others in the NFL.

Second, as I've said more than once here, I became a Cowboy fan as a 6 or 7 year-old, having opened a pack of football cards, and innocently/naively deciding that one in that pack... Craig Morton, as it happened... would be my favorite player. (I don't recall, but I probably just liked the nickname based on my play-time habits at that age .) That was, what, a couple of years ago or so. Maybe you're a more authentic fan than I, then. Who knows... hehe.

 

[jrumann59]

I was both a center and long snapper when I played. I started as the long snapper my freshman year in HS and did it the entire 4 years. I started as the center in 10th grade and did both duties for the next 3 years. Shot gun, fieldgoals and punts, I snapped every one of them. In my 4 years, only one bad snap. It's not that difficult to learn and do. It only takes practice. I can appreciate how good LP is. He is outstanding and I am glad we have someone like him. But to act like it is some great athletic thing to accomplish, its not. Give me 3 months and I would have Zeke making perfect snaps every time. I personally view it has a waste of a spot. A spot that could be used on a future prospect that wouldn't make it to the practice squad for example. I know everyone will disagree and stuff because every team has one, etc. I get it. I just don't buy into it. Hell I am 47 years old and I would still be accurate on at least 95% of my snaps today.

I wonder how much of it is they do not want to screw with the mojo of the kicker or punter also.

 

[xwalker]

I don't think the OP was questioning the need for LP. But to anybody that would question the need for LP. I'd just shake my head

For someone that is new to football, it would probably seem like a good idea to save the roster spot; however, it really only takes living through 1 big loss due to a botched snap to know that it's a bad idea.

 

[visionary]

Just out of curiosity, are you a long snapper? I'm more than a little impressed with your deep insight. I thought I was an obsessive fan, and yet you know the detailed history of our long snappers over the past 15 years. That's wild

Now that you mention it, I knew there was something I didn't like about Alexander. He must be a long snapper

 

[links18]

We have tried the last few years with Casey Kreiter (now with Denver) and Charley Hughlett (now with the Browns).

Teams are even drafting them now, the Patriots did in 2016 (Joe Carmona) and the Steelers this year (Colin Holba).

Why do you know all this? Are you a scout?

 

[_sturt_]

For someone that is new to football, it would probably seem like a good idea to save the roster spot; however, it really only takes living through 1 big loss due to a botched snap to know that it's a bad idea.

I'd be slow to characterize someone as "new to football" on the simple basis that s/he disagrees with me on what is inherently not something that can be quantitatively analyzed... just because even in my most strongly held opinions, it seems more reasonable to stick with the substance rather than trying to propose and support some disparaging theory of "why" that other person disagrees.

But if one were to entertain such an analysis, let's think out loud about what elements would need to be studied... yes, on the one hand, the obvious number of botched snaps, then number of botched snaps in critical situations.... but on the other, to see the whole of the equation, what visible benefits did the team enjoy because they were able to keep some specific player they would not have otherwise kept... hell, even just getting anyone with insider knowledge to admit what player would have been cut, in itself, would represent some serious detective work perhaps under thumb screws.

So... point of that little exercise being.... if one were to pursue it, it's not enough to focus exclusively on "one big loss due to a botched snap"... and notably, even if it were, as I've asserted earlier, thousands of long snaps occur in college ball every weekend, and relatively few of those seem to end up making Sportscenter.

That is, there's a legit discussion to be held, "are we over-reacting here to the likelihood of disaster?" and then, "are we under-appreciating the fact... pretty much, cold hard fact... that most preseasons, we're wincing at not just one but a handful of guys not being able to make the final 53, perceiving it's not some far-off dream that this guy, that guy or the other guy is capable if given the chance to make a discernible contribution to the success of the team"... ?

 

[Alexander]

Why do you know all this? Are you a scout?

No.

I just pay attention.

Some people call it obsession.

I know it would be kind of cool for me to say I had a "source" and have "my guy" tell me like top secret things but no.

I am just a fan. Like you.

 

[EPL0c0]

Remember the Eagles showed us last season what happens when you lose your long snapper. Celek comes in, goes down. I don't even remember who the next guy up was...

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any teams that use a position guy as DS.

Maybe the NFL should make the DS a roster-exempt position so it doesn't count toward the 53-man roster; but he can play deep snapper and ONLY deep snapper, no other position.

Jon Dorenbos has been a rock for their team like LP has been for Dallas. (plus, Dorenbos is a good guy (gotta support those UTEP alum))

 

[links18]

Remember the Eagles showed us last season what happens when you lose your long snapper. Celek comes in, goes down. I don't even remember who the next guy up was...

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any teams that use a position guy as DS.

Maybe the NFL should make the DS a roster-exempt position so it doesn't count toward the 53-man roster; but he can play deep snapper and ONLY deep snapper, no other position.

Jon Dorenbos has been a rock for their team like LP has been for Dallas. (plus, Dorenbos is a good guy (gotta support those UTEP alum))

I remember when our starting center went down sometime long ago, (I want to say Stepnoski, but not sure) Hellestrae came in and took snaps at regular center. Or maybe this is a false memory. Can anyone corroborate this?

 

[_sturt_]

I remember when our starting center went down sometime long ago, (I want to say Stepnoski, but not sure) Hellestrae came in and took snaps at regular center. Or maybe this is a false memory. Can anyone corroborate this?

That sounds vaguely familiar but geez, you're really taxing the limited brain circuits and synapse current I'm able to summon here.

 

[LatinMind]

For someone that is new to football, it would probably seem like a good idea to save the roster spot; however, it really only takes living through 1 big loss due to a botched snap to know that it's a bad idea.

bingo. anybody who watched Dallas trying to get a snap off for those few yrs before LP know it was a nightmare. Something that seemed to simple was impossible to rely on for this team

 

[InDakWeTrust]

LS is a position you forget about until you need one. Just not as noticeable as a QB should the team need one.

What is pretty cool in looking back, we've see several talented special teamers stick in the NFL and have lengthy careers. Nick Folk, Rian Lindell, McBriar, Condo, Dwayne Harris, Suisham and others.