I think Dez is the same guy he was in 2014

[ConceptCoop]

He got paid...

Also, he probably lost 6" on his vert.

He is good in the redzone but a liability in the other part of the field.

Before the SF game he was 21 of 48. That is a terrible catch rate for any WR.

Brice Butler was 8 of 11 in that same span and he gets the low percentage deep route passes.

Catch rate is a raw stat that needs context. Dez saw a ton awful targets in the Denver game - you can't put that all on him. Comparing his catch rate to Brice Butler's, with a sample size of 11, doesn't feel productive to me. Are you arguing that Butler's the better player?

 

[ConceptCoop]

He's fallen off. I agree there's a bit of a coordination issue with he and Dak, but at his peak, Dez could hold his own as often as not v. elite cover CBs, and he was getting to a point where he could beat double coverage. Right now, he can still be a part of the game plan when he's up against an elite guy, but he doesn't break those games open. And there are times when teams are giving us Dez and we can't take advantage of it properly.

He's still a huge weapon, and he's playing with guys in Elliott and Beasley who are earning the attention of the QB themselves, but he's not quite the same guy he was. And the team seems to think so, too, the way they're handling absorbing his contract.

Dez can hold his own against elite cover CBs today, when given the chance and quality looks. Dez's worst game was against Jenkins - and Dak missed him on two would-be TDs in the redzone and a long ball. Dez never got a great amount of separation on the better corners, he beat them by winning 50/50 balls. I still think he can do that.

Edit: Good point on his contact. Let's see how they handle it this offseason.

 

[Bleedblue1111]

This latest game is a result of coaching adjustments. The coaches saw him and Dez weren't really connecting on those jump balls and that most of their catches came with Dez running slants, and that's what they went to with astounding success.

Great to see. He has good YAC ability, that needs to be utilized more often.

 

[River82]

Catch rate is a raw stat that needs context. Dez saw a ton awful targets in the Denver game - you can't put that all on him. Comparing his catch rate to Brice Butler's, with a sample size of 11, doesn't feel productive to me. Are you arguing that Butler's the better player?

No, he's saying Dez has become a horrible and unreliable catcher.

Which he has.

 

[Idgit]

Dez can hold his own against elite cover CBs today, when given the chance and quality looks. Dez's worst game was against Jenkins - and Dak missed him on two would-be TDs in the redzone and a long ball. Dez never got a great amount of separation on the better corners, he beat them by winning 50/50 balls. I still think he can do that.

Edit: Good point on his contact. Let's see how they handle it this offseason.

The thing about the TDs that never happen, though...Dez isn't the only WR in the league with those near-misses.

And Jenkins held him to 2 catches on 9 targets for 20 yards. Peterson/AZ held him to 2/2 and a touch. The Broncos I thought did a better job on him, but he did go 7/59 with a 3 yard touch.

He's a beast in the redzone, for sure. But the guy hasn't broken a game since the JAX game last season, has he? At least, I can't remember one.

I do like that they were getting to him on the slants yesterday, btw.

 

[xwalker]

Catch rate is a raw stat that needs context. Dez saw a ton awful targets in the Denver game - you can't put that all on him. Comparing his catch rate to Brice Butler's, with a sample size of 11, doesn't feel productive to me. Are you arguing that Butler's the better player?

I think Butler might catch more than 21 of 48 passes.

Much of the claimed over-throws on the Denver were due to Dez running the route incorrectly. He cut more than 1 route off early.

 

[ConceptCoop]

No, he's saying Dez has become a horrible and unreliable catcher.

Which he has.

Spare me the hyperbole. Here are the drop leaders for 2016. You'll need to scroll a few pages to find Dez. You'll run into Brice Bulter first, despite him getting far fewer targets.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?...&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=4

 

[xwalker]

He's fallen off. I agree there's a bit of a coordination issue with he and Dak, but at his peak, Dez could hold his own as often as not v. elite cover CBs, and he was getting to a point where he could beat double coverage. Right now, he can still be a part of the game plan when he's up against an elite guy, but he doesn't break those games open. And there are times when teams are giving us Dez and we can't take advantage of it properly.

He's still a huge weapon, and he's playing with guys in Elliott and Beasley who are earning the attention of the QB themselves, but he's not quite the same guy he was. And the team seems to think so, too, the way they're handling absorbing his contract.

Is he worth his 12.5M base salary for next season?

 

[ConceptCoop]

The thing about the TDs that never happen, though...Dez isn't the only WR in the league with those near-misses.

And Jenkins held him to 2 catches on 9 targets for 20 yards. Peterson/AZ held him to 2/2 and a touch. The Broncos I thought did a better job on him, but he did go 7/59 with a 3 yard touch.

He's a beast in the redzone, for sure. But the guy hasn't broken a game since the JAX game last season, has he? At least, I can't remember one.

I do like that they were getting to him on the slants yesterday, btw.

I don't mean to argue against facts. I just hope to provide context on said facts.

Dez is on pace for something like 60/800. What do you think those numbers look like with a healthy Tony Romo running the show?

Week 2 last year they made it a point to get Dez the ball. He had 7 receptions for 102 yards. I think that's there just about every week, should they decide to use him like that. I'm not going to argue against the offensive success we've had, of course. What we're doing is working, for the most part. But maybe we're not having this conversation if they had continued following that game plan. But Zeke broke out the following week and the rest is history.

 

[ConceptCoop]

I think Butler might catch more than 21 of 48 passes.

Much of the claimed over-throws on the Denver were due to Dez running the route incorrectly. He cut more than 1 route off early.

Butler has the worst drop rate on the team in his time here.

Edit: And Dez has always had the mental errors. That's nothing new and does not account for his dip in catch rate.

 

[Risen Star]

There's no question this QB hurts the production of the WRs.

 

[xwalker]

Spare me the hyperbole. Here are the drop leaders for 2016. You'll need to scroll a few pages to find Dez. You'll run into Brice Bulter first, despite him getting far fewer targets.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?...&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=4

That does not account for bad routes and various other Dez screwups. That drop stat is only for would-be easy catches that were not made.

 

[ConceptCoop]

That does not account for bad routes and various other Dez screwups. That drop stat is only for would-be easy catches that were not made.

Dez's routes and mental breakdowns have been a constant throughout his career. I'd say he's improved in that area, even. I recall years 2 and 3 being particularly bad in the running-the-wrong-route deparment.

 

[ConceptCoop]

Is he worth his 12.5M base salary for next season?

Not as we're using him. But he's worth more than 8.5 we'd save by cutting him.

 

[Corso]

Dez is a beast and is top 10.



Dont @ me

Yessir!

 

[perrykemp]

Unfortunately the accumulation of significant injuries, in 2010, 2015, and 2016, to his legs and feet and robbed Dez with a fair amount of the explosiveness we saw in his earlier career -- especially outside of the redzone.

The Dez of 2012-2014 had the ability to take short catches take them to the house from 80+ yards.

The current Dez is basically a possession receiver with tremendous red zone skills.

The current Dez is still valuable to the Cowboys, however, he is no more a Top 10 NFL receiver at this point than Jordy Nelson is --- both of them catch LOTs of touchdowns but they scare nobody outside of the redzone.

 

[ConceptCoop]

Unfortunately the accumulation of significant injuries, in 2010, 2015, and 2016, to his legs and feet and robbed Dez with a fair amount of the explosiveness we saw in his earlier career -- especially outside of the redzone.

The Dez of 2012-2014 had the ability to take short catches take them to the house from 80+ yards.

The current Dez is basically a possession receiver with tremendous red zone skills.

The current Dez is still valuable to the Cowboys, however, he is no more a Top 10 NFL receiver at this point than Jordy Nelson is --- both of them catch LOTs of touchdowns but they scare nobody outside of the redzone.

He did? He ran a 4.5+ in private workouts, which I'm guessing is--what?--4.55+ in Indy? He might not be as explosive as he was as a youngster, but I don't think he's much slower than he was before breaking his foot, if at all.

 

[Idgit]

I don't mean to argue against facts. I just hope to provide context on said facts.

Dez is on pace for something like 60/800. What do you think those numbers look like with a healthy Tony Romo running the show?

Week 2 last year they made it a point to get Dez the ball. He had 7 receptions for 102 yards. I think that's there just about every week, should they decide to use him like that. I'm not going to argue against the offensive success we've had, of course. What we're doing is working, for the most part. But maybe we're not having this conversation if they had continued following that game plan. But Zeke broke out the following week and the rest is history.

My only complaint about Dez is that we're overpaying him for his current production. I like the dude, think he's a really important part of the offense, and would love to keep him if we could manage his cap hit better. He's just not elite, and I want to add an impact speed WR on the other side of him.

I agree that he'd have better numbers under Tony, btw.

 

[xwalker]

Not as we're using him. But he's worth more than 8.5 we'd save by cutting him.

They save 12.5M by cutting him. The "savings" is spread out over 2 years.

They save 8.5M in 2018 and 4M in 2019.

They can restructure another players contact to push 4M into 2019. Then they "save" 12.5M in 2018 and 2019 is break-even because the 4M from Dez offsets the 4M from the other contract.

 

[ConceptCoop]

My only complaint about Dez is that we're overpaying him for his current production. I like the dude, think he's a really important part of the offense, and would love to keep him if we could manage his cap hit better. He's just not elite, and I want to add an impact speed WR on the other side of him.

I agree that he'd have better numbers under Tony, btw.

I certainly agree that the production doesn't justify the investment. We haven't gotten our monies worth, for a number of reasons.