Dak Prescott 2 in Total QBR

[CowboyGil]

Dak played well yesterday. Some erratic throws, but some brilliant play, too.

We will get a really good picture of where he is in two weeks against Philly.

28,30,31, 40, 26 and 28 don't give us a good picture?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So, winning is or isn’t the measure of great quarterbacks?

I actually never said anything about great QBs. I said, winning and losing stats are the most important stats for a QB in the NFL. Two completely different conversations to me but if your asking, I will tell you what I think.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That is exactly what I'm saying. If you're not first, you're last.

QB A has 18 TDS and 12 INTs and 3000 passing yards with a top running game in the league but has a 13-3 record. QB B is 9-7 with 30 TDS and 10 INT with 4500 yards with a sub par run game and trash defense. Prorated over 5 years. Youre telling me with a straight face QB A is better because he has more wins? LOL. LIke I said, 52 players that can effect the outcome of a ballgame. QBR, passing yards, TD/INT ratio are all MUCH MORE indictive of how good a quarterback.

Nice way to contradict yourself by the way. Marino is top 5 in all time wins. More than 50 wins in comparison to Aikman. Better win %. But you'd rather have Aikman. But Marino has more wins!!!! he must be better!!! Stick to your argument.

Or is it because Aikman has won more super bowls? AH, it can't be, because, and I quote "your statement was not about winning Super Bowls, it was about winning in the NFL". What gives?? I think you are a little confused. It happens to the best of us.

All this and you never answered the question. You know what, I answered your question, even though I didn't need to.

You wanna carry on this conversation, answer the question.

 

[rags747]

I think he's been good about running only when it's good to do so. You never seem him keep it on an option and get stuffed. If he's keeping it, it's because the defense is completely keyed in on Elliott.

He got stuffed last wk vs Washington on a key 3rd down play, needed about 3 and got 2.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

It has Dashaun Watson at #1 with 81.3

Dak is #2 with 78.5

Wentz is #3 with 71.7

Brady is #4 with 67.1

Risen says he sucks, who are we to argue with that troll?

 

[sean10mm]

ESPN's QBR is a garbage stat for babies, but Dak is well above average regardless of how you measure it.

 

[VACowboy]

I actually never said anything about great QBs. I said, winning and losing stats are the most important stats for a QB in the NFL. Two completely different conversations to me but if your asking, I will tell you what I think.

I guess I misunderstood what “most important stats for a quarterback in the NFL” means. Since this is a thread about Dak being number two in QBR, I assumed “most important“ meant “best metric for evaluating.” Quarterbacks get most of the praise when their team wins and most of the crap when they lose, so wins and losses are very important to their legacy and personal bottom lines. I just don’t agree that that view is nearly always correct, especially when used to judge a quarterback’s place in the rank-and-file. I’m guessing you don’t either.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I guess I misunderstood what “most important stats for a quarterback in the NFL” means. Since this is a thread about Dak being number two in QBR, I assumed “most important“ meant “best metric for evaluating.” Quarterbacks get most of the praise when their team wins and most of the crap when they lose, so wins and losses are very important to their legacy and personal bottom lines. I just don’t agree that that view is nearly always correct, especially when used to judge a quarterback’s place in the rank-and-file. I’m guessing you don’t either.

No worries, I don't think you are the only one. QB Rating, QBR, they are all just stats to me. I mean, they can tell you things and as far as trends, they can be very helpful indeed. But to me, it's all about winning, or should I say, I believe that in the NFL, it's all about winning. I believe that. You can have all the talent in the world or you can be a guy who, like Dak IMO, may not be the all world talent but has those other things that win you games. In the end, I believe that HCs tend to go with guys that they can trust. Vick was as talented a QB as this league has ever seen but, he wasn't the leader that could sustain over time. Guys like Bart Star and Troy Aikman get a bad rap, on this, IMO. I mean, there stats are not overwhelming but they understood how to win. They understood how to manage a team full of HOF type players. That's not an easy thing to be able to do, to lead people who, in their own rights, are all time greats themselves. Especially over a long period of time.

I'm not really trying to point to any stat and say this is why QB x, y or z are the best. I'm just saying that it all comes down to winning and that's really the stat that QBs are judged by. JMO

 

[VACowboy]

No worries, I don't think you are the only one. QB Rating, QBR, they are all just stats to me. I mean, they can tell you things and as far as trends, they can be very helpful indeed. But to me, it's all about winning, or should I say, I believe that in the NFL, it's all about winning. I believe that. You can have all the talent in the world or you can be a guy who, like Dak IMO, may not be the all world talent but has those other things that win you games. In the end, I believe that HCs tend to go with guys that they can trust. Vick was as talented a QB as this league has ever seen but, he wasn't the leader that could sustain over time. Guys like Bart Star and Troy Aikman get a bad rap, on this, IMO. I mean, there stats are not overwhelming but they understood how to win. They understood how to manage a team full of HOF type players. That's not an easy thing to be able to do, to lead people who, in their own rights, are all time greats themselves. Especially over a long period of time.

I'm not really trying to point to any stat and say this is why QB x, y or z are the best. I'm just saying that it all comes down to winning and that's really the stat that QBs are judged by. JMO

Oh, you are absolutely correct that winning, especially Super Bowls, is what NFL quarterbacks are most judged on. I just don’t think it’s either a fair or accurate metric.

 

[BlindFaith]

Just to QBs. Stats are all well and good but if you don't win, you don't last. That's just how it is and it's not my rule or my way of thinking. It's how the NFL has always been. I don't know why you are arguing with me on the BF. You know this.

Sorry, I'm not really trying to argue. Just I don't believe GMs look at win loss records for QBs to determine if they are good or not. Is there correlation?...yes. But a very good QB could have a lousy record and vice versa.

 

[StarOfGlory]

It's about time the Total QBR stat started getting more love. People scoff because ESPN created it, but the truth is that ESPN has a tremendous Stats & Info department.

This stat is a HUGE improvement over the ridiculously antiquated Passer Rating.

Things Total QBR takes into account that Passer Rating completely ignores: rush yards, fumbles, game situation (a TD pass in the 4th quarter of a blowout loss counts less than a game-winning TD pass), 3rd-down efficiency (an 8-yard completion on 3rd and 10 counts less than an 8-yard completion on 3rd and 8).

But this is also misleading. How many times have we seen a receiver run his route too short? That's not the QB's fault. Many times the QB has no choice but to throw the pass and pray the receiver gets the extra yards.

 

[Nav22]

But this is also misleading. How many times have we seen a receiver run his route too short? That's not the QB's fault. Many times the QB has no choice but to throw the pass and pray the receiver gets the extra yards.

There is no perfect stat that takes EVERY variable into account.

Total QBR is still a big improvement over Passer Rating.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Oh, you are absolutely correct that winning, especially Super Bowls, is what NFL quarterbacks are most judged on. I just don’t think it’s either a fair or accurate metric.

Well, I will tell you that over the years, I have had many, many conversations on this. I've been on both sides of the issue and I can absolutely see where it is not entirely fair. There are things like Offenses that don't fit, poor coaching staffs, poor talent, injuries, all sorts of different dynamics that shape a QB. You just can't know what any given situation might be. On the other hand, ask yourself this. What is the most fair way to evaluate a QB? I often wonder if winning and losing isn't the most fair way. There so much you have no control over or, you don't have enough information to really make an honest evaluation on.

Honestly, I think it might be winning and losing.

 

[mardwin]

Dak can have 7 tds and throw over 400 yards and people like Cris Carter and That scumbag Ray Lewis will say it was because of Zeke. Some people just can't give Dak credit even if it hits them in the face.

Once Zeke is suspended they'll have to find another excuse.

 

[StarOfGlory]

He clearly is doing some things right but their are flaws in how he plays the position. Listening to you and a few others...he is Jesus Christ. Yet he has been behind Dak all season and only recently has he closed the gap because of a good string of games and Dak's relative clunker in the quagmire last week where he didn't have to win the game because Zeke did.

He DOES NOT and I don't care how much anyone disagrees....DOES NOT go through his progressions. I am AMAZED that no team has made him pay so far this year. It is amazing to me that NFL teams have not figured this out yet and let him go to his first read 90% of the time. Giving credit to where it is due...he did dismantle the Broncos yesterday...but it really wasn't from much that he did that made that happen. Scheme made that happen, which is again...amazing that teams haven't figure their scheme out yet.

I am heartened by what we did to the chiefs yesterday....they are the same offense as the Eagles and it will be a great test all the way around when we play them in two weeks.

Scheme made that happen? Sounds like you think the Philly coaches are better than ours.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sorry, I'm not really trying to argue. Just I don't believe GMs look at win loss records for QBs to determine if they are good or not. Is there correlation?...yes. But a very good QB could have a lousy record and vice versa.

That's true but here is my opinion there. I think that very few QBs, if they don't find success early, end up being really good later. I think what happens is that if they go to a bad situation, they get beat down and it's pretty rare that they come back and become great QBs. It can happen and it has happened before but it's unusual IMO. What usually happens is that after the 4 year contract, teams move on because it's just too expensive to keep them around and most GMs, if you miss on a big time QB prospect, a lot of times, they are not around for QB prospect 2.

It's almost a self fulfilling type situation, most times, IMO. Anyway, that's what I believe and I think the NFL kind looks at it like that.

 

[VACowboy]

Well, I will tell you that over the years, I have had many, many conversations on this. I've been on both sides of the issue and I can absolutely see where it is not entirely fair. There are things like Offenses that don't fit, poor coaching staffs, poor talent, injuries, all sorts of different dynamics that shape a QB. You just can't know what any given situation might be. On the other hand, ask yourself this. What is the most fair way to evaluate a QB? I often wonder if winning and losing isn't the most fair way. There so much you have no control over or, you don't have enough information to really make an honest evaluation on.

Honestly, I think it might be winning and losing.

I think the truth is, football is a team game and everything every player does and the success he has at doing it depends on his teammates. I also think a quarterback has A lot more control over the accuracy of his throws, the decisions he makes, his composure against the blitz, on third down and in the red zone, etc, than he does the number of points his defensive team mates give up or whether they fork over the lead after said quarterback has put them ahead with a minute left in the fourth quarter. So I don’t see how Ws and Ls are better measurements of a quarterback then his individual statistics. I mean, does a last second loss to Aaron Rodgers when Dak’s offense has scored 31 and left his defense a lead with a buck and change in the fourth quarter make Dak a lesser player?

 

[Denim Chicken]

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think the truth is, football is a team game and everything every player does and the success he has at doing it depends on his teammates. I also think a quarterback has A lot more control over the accuracy of his throws, the decisions he makes, his composure against the blitz, on third down and in the red zone, etc, than he does the number of points his defensive team mates give up or whether they fork over the lead after said quarterback has put them ahead with a minute left in the fourth quarter. So I don’t see how Ws and Ls are better measurements of a quarterback then his individual statistics. I mean, does a last second loss to Aaron Rodgers when Dak’s offense has scored 31 and left his defense a lead with a buck and change in the fourth quarter make Dak a lesser player?

Just for the sake of argument, and really I even hate to call it that, lets say that a QB does. What would you think then?

For example, there are QBs that like to throw the ball 50 times a game. Now, I'm not saying that this is always the case because any rational person knows that it is unreasonable to make assumptions like that but, lets say you do have a guy playing QB who wants to throw it up and really not use the running game, or who simply isn't converting 3rd downs that he really should be making. In that situation, your Defense is probably on the filed too long and they are probably gassed. Coming back from being down takes more out of you then it does to sustain a lead so that situation can come up. If that happens and your QB does toss a late TD and the Defense gives up a TD, can we really know if that is on the QB or on the D?

Just too many things that you don't know, unless you are on the team. You can make educated guesses but it's hard to know for sure. Example of this is the Dez drop last weekend. I mean, that ball should have been caught and most said that immediately but not many saw ankle get rolled up on. In real time, it look like another drop but I can see how he missed it.

Anyway, I get what you are saying. I've just kinda looked at it over and over again and I'm just not sure if there really is a better way to gi about it.

 

[JohnsKey19]

It has Dashaun Watson at #1 with 81.3

Dak is #2 with 78.5

Wentz is #3 with 71.7

Brady is #4 with 67.1

Dak and Watson have been head and shoulders above the rest of the league in QBR for at least a few weeks.