Cap impact of cutting players reviewed

[Manwiththeplan]

Kyle Wilber has to be more than just a special teams player. When Sean Lee and Hitchens were out and Jaylon Smith was struggling terribly, where was he?

If the coaches don't think enough of him to play him when LB's were falling like flies, there is a problem. He obviously isn't good enough, despite his abilites on special teams.

The linebackers need upgrading. Badly. Durant and Wilber need to be upgraded. There was be guys to play special teams who can also contribute to a position. Like Kavon Frazier, for example. Wilber contributes nothing at LB.

I don't think many, if any 4-3 teams have 6 LBs who can realistically play well in the base defense.

And if Frazier continues to improve, he will play less and less on special teams. Just the nature of the game.

 

[xwalker]

Semantics. Both are money the player receives that will hit the cap. The only money that is not guaranteed to hit the cap is a player's base salary although sometimes that's guaranteed as well and bonuses based on incentives.

Bryant's $20 million signing bonus was guaranteed, which means he gets it all no matter what, and prorated, which means it hits the cap incrementally over the course of his contract. $12 million has hit the cap, so if we cut him in 2018, then the remaining $8 million hits the cap immediately. If we wait until 2019, then $4 million hits the cap,

The prorated money hits the cap with or without the player on the roster. It has already been paid therefore it has to hit the cap at some point.

In regards to Dez:
Prorated money
Stay: 4M prorated 2018 and 4M 2019
June 1st Cut: dead-money 4M 2018, 4M 2019
Pre-June 1st cut: dead-money 8M 2018

Salary
Stay: 12.5M 2018
June 1st cut: zero
Pre-June 1st cut: zero

As you can see the prorated or dead-money is exactly the same. The only difference is the salary.

 

[jobberone]

Have to count the cost to replace the player.

 

[Verdict]

Good work.

Another way to look at it is that if I restructure 6 contracts and keep Martin at 9.3M for 2018, then I get 45M in 2018 to sign and re-sign players. That 45M is with Scandrick, Crawford and Dez still on the roster without restructures.

That's true, but it does mortgage your future.

 

[Verdict]

this is a small luxury but a good one
the replacement cost isn't so much the point because if your unsatisfied with the player
the "placement cost" is just doing business to upgrade

That's right.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Dez Bryant isn't going anywhere
Dez Bryant contract will not be restructured
FO will not ask Dez Bryant to take a pay cut

I know it's a hard pill for OP the swallow but Dez is a Jerry's favor AND is still impacting our offense.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Dez is going nowhere
Witten will decide when he’s gone
Scandrick, Crawford, Mayowa, Hanna...bye

I could see Hanna staying and possibly Crawford

 

[ghst187]

Dez is going nowhere
Witten will decide when he’s gone
Scandrick, Crawford, Mayowa, Hanna...bye

I'd keep Hanna on that list of cuts but agree with all the others. Of course I wouldn't be devastated either if they cut Hanna with the expectation that Witten is back again and Rico takes his spot. With all those savings and already existing cap space we are idiots if we don't go get some REAL talent at at least one or two positions.

 

[DogFace]

As I said, they manage the cap based on the multiple year outlook.

Keeping over-paid players impacts future years, not just the current year.

Do you save any of your income each paycheck or do you upgrade your car to the most expensive one you can possibly afford? If you get the new car, what happens when your rent or property taxes increase?

If you saw my car and my salary you wouldn’t be happy with me.
Purchased it 6 months before impending marriage.
I knew it was my last chance at car happiness !

 

[gimmesix]

The prorated money hits the cap with or without the player on the roster. It has already been paid therefore it has to hit the cap at some point.

In regards to Dez:
Prorated money
Stay: 4M prorated 2018 and 4M 2019
June 1st Cut: dead-money 4M 2018, 4M 2019
Pre-June 1st cut: dead-money 8M 2018

Salary
Stay: 12.5M 2018
June 1st cut: zero
Pre-June 1st cut: zero

As you can see the prorated or dead-money is exactly the same. The only difference is the salary.

Yes, because prorated money is part of the player's guaranteed money. (It goes hand in hand, although guaranteed money can be paid upfront if you've got a lot of cap space.) Either way, Dallas takes an $8 million cap hit no matter what for cutting Dez and that has to be considered against his salary. You can either take the hit all at once and save the $8.5 million difference between his salary and the remaining prorated portions of his guaranteed money or take $4 million hits for the next two years.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know, and I'm not telling you anything you don't know. I just think the way that you have been presenting it is misleading as far as the cap impact.

The base salary for Travis Frederick, for example, increases to $10 million in 2018, but we lose money capwise if we cut him, even if we spread it over two years because he's still owed $12 million for the prorated portions of his signing bonus and his restructure. Sure, we save the $10 million in salary that we were going to give him, but we can't just look at the salary number for cap impact.

 

[gimmesix]

Even if you only look at the base salary, then you also have to factor in the cost of their replacement. So can we adequately replace Scandrick for 3M or less? I don’t think so. Obviously we won’t get a starting caliber CB for 3M, but I would say we don’t need one. Awuzie, Lewis and Brown will be a good trio, but we would want a veteran on the roster to fill in, in case of an injury, and I think that player won’t be cheaper than 3M. Similar arguments can be made for some of those guys, I think Mayowa *could* be replaced by a mid round pick, so that makes sense. We may only keep 3 TEs depending on Rico, so Hanna makes sense. Witten is worth 6.5M imo, Crawford isn’t, so i think he doesn’t return at that salary. Dez isn’t, but 14 TDs in our last 29 games is a lot to walk away from without a replacement

Capwise, we would have to replace Scandrick for $1.4 million because $3 million would only be made available if we make him a June 1st cut, which means we absorb almost $2 million of his prorated bonuses this year and almost $2 million next year.

It would be better IMO to hold on to him for another year unless injuries prove to be too much and cut him in 2019 when the cap savings would be $4 million.

 

[Nightman]

Yes, because prorated money is part of the player's guaranteed money. (It goes hand in hand, although guaranteed money can be paid upfront if you've got a lot of cap space.) Either way, Dallas takes an $8 million cap hit no matter what for cutting Dez and that has to be considered against his salary. You can either take the hit all at once and save the $8.5 million difference between his salary and the remaining prorated portions of his guaranteed money or take $4 million hits for the next two years.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know, and I'm not telling you anything you don't know. I just think the way that you have been presenting it is misleading as far as the cap impact.

The base salary for Travis Frederick, for example, increases to $10 million in 2018, but we lose money capwise if we cut him, even if we spread it over two years because he's still owed $12 million for the prorated portions of his signing bonus and his restructure. Sure, we save the $10 million in salary that we were going to give him, but we can't just look at the salary number for cap impact.

Exactly, when putting the team together in March the only number that matters is the salary space create THIS year...... long term planning is a different animal

The questions when thinking about cutting a player
1- what is his base salary.....any guarantees or roster bonuses?
2- what will the team save or lose against salary cap right now?
3- who is going to replace him and at what cost?
4- can we trade this player?

His dead money in the future is a sunk cost so it really doesn't factor to in this situation

 

[xwalker]

Yes, because prorated money is part of the player's guaranteed money. (It goes hand in hand, although guaranteed money can be paid upfront if you've got a lot of cap space.) Either way, Dallas takes an $8 million cap hit no matter what for cutting Dez and that has to be considered against his salary. You can either take the hit all at once and save the $8.5 million difference between his salary and the remaining prorated portions of his guaranteed money or take $4 million hits for the next two years.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know, and I'm not telling you anything you don't know. I just think the way that you have been presenting it is misleading as far as the cap impact.

The base salary for Travis Frederick, for example, increases to $10 million in 2018, but we lose money capwise if we cut him, even if we spread it over two years because he's still owed $12 million for the prorated portions of his signing bonus and his restructure. Sure, we save the $10 million in salary that we were going to give him, but we can't just look at the salary number for cap impact.

If they cut Dez, it gives them 8M more cap space in 2018 and 4.5M more in 2019.

If they restructure another contract to push (prorate) 4.5M into 2019 then they free up 4.5M for 2018. The 2019 cap is unaffected because the extra 4.5M from cutting Dez offsets the 4.5M pushed forward from restructuring the other contract.

Now they have 12.5M in additional cap space in 2018 and 2019 is unaffected.

There is no cost to restructure the other contract because there is no interest on delaying cap charges like there would be interest on a real money loan.

It does cost the Cowboys a few dollars in real money because of interest, but there is no cost in cap money.

If you add the 2018, 2019, and 2020 cap numbers together, that number is 12.5M more if Dez stays for 2018 than if they cut him before 2018.

 

[Nightman]

If they cut Dez, it gives them 8M more cap space in 2018 and 4.5M more in 2019.

If they restructure another contract to push (prorate) 4.5M into 2019 then they free up 4.5M for 2018. The 2019 cap is unaffected because the extra 4.5M from cutting Dez offsets the 4.5M pushed forward from restructuring the other contract.

Now they have 12.5M in additional cap space in 2018 and 2019 is unaffected.

There is no cost to restructure the other contract because there is no interest on delaying cap charges like there would be interest on a real money loan.

It does cost the Cowboys a few dollars in real money because of interest, but there is no cost in cap money.

If you add the 2018, 2019, and 2020 cap numbers together, that number is 12.5M more if Dez stays for 2018 than if they cut him before 2018.

You are bringing a third party ........that is cheating ............ plus it is only cap neutral if you don't spend the cap space and roll it all over...... if that is the case then why cut the player if you don't need the space................. keep the player and his production and get the big savings next year

Your analogy is that if you sold your car for 1000 and then sold your bike for 300 that you really made 1300 by selling your car....... that makes no sense

 

[xwalker]

That's true, but it does mortgage your future.

Not as much as the alternative.

If you restructure other contracts in order to fit in DLaw's 17M franchise tag, that is less strain on the future than signing him to a mega-contract and then having his back fail in 2018 to the point he can't play.

I'm not advocating that they spend all of the 45M. The point was that they could keep Scandrick, Crawford and Dez until after training camp and then make a decision on whether they want to keep them.

 

[xwalker]

You are bringing a third party ........that is cheating ............ plus it is only cap neutral if you don't spend the cap space and roll it all over...... if that is the case then why cut the player if you don't need the space................. keep the player and his production and get the big savings next year

Your analogy is that if you sold your car for 1000 and then sold your bike for 300 that you really made 1300 by selling your car....... that makes no sense

Again, this thread is just about the cap and how dead-money works.

In regards to Dez specifically, the question is will the team be better by spending the 12.5M on him or spending it on other players. That's a completely different question than the issue of dead-money.

If Dez is as good a you and the other Dez Boiz think, then they can't replace him for 12.5M.

If Dez is as bad as I think, then they can upgrade with a draft pick or a 6M per year free agent.

 

[Nightman]

Again, this thread is just about the cap and how dead-money works.

In regards to Dez specifically, the question is will the team be better by spending the 12.5M on him or spending it on other players. That's a completely different question than the issue of dead-money.

If Dez is as good a you and the other Dez Boiz think, then they can't replace him for 12.5M.

If Dez is as bad as I think, then they can upgrade with a draft pick or a 6M per year free agent.

Alshon Jeffrey just got 14m and he is a Dez clone

Keep Dez and draft a WR in the 1st or 2nd................no FAs
Jarvis Landry is about to get 5/60m
Terrelle Pryor was a huge bust but he only took a one year 10m deal
Tavon Austin got 4/42m and he stinks
Allen Hurns got 4/40m......who??

 

[Verdict]

Not as much as the alternative.

If you restructure other contracts in order to fit in DLaw's 17M franchise tag, that is less strain on the future than signing him to a mega-contract and then having his back fail in 2018 to the point he can't play.

I'm not advocating that they spend all of the 45M. The point was that they could keep Scandrick, Crawford and Dez until after training camp and then make a decision on whether they want to keep them.

All of the foregoing is accurate. Well stated.

By the way, you need to quit slacking. I haven't seen a Dez thread in quite some time. Don't make me do all of the heavy lifting around here.

 

[Verdict]

Again, this thread is just about the cap and how dead-money works.

In regards to Dez specifically, the question is will the team be better by spending the 12.5M on him or spending it on other players. That's a completely different question than the issue of dead-money.

If Dez is as good a you and the other Dez Boiz think, then they can't replace him for 12.5M.

If Dez is as bad as I think, then they can upgrade with a draft pick or a 6M per year free agent.

If Dez is as bad as I think he is we can leave a roster spot with no one occupying it and it will be an improvement over Dez.

 

[Verdict]

Capwise, we would have to replace Scandrick for $1.4 million because $3 million would only be made available if we make him a June 1st cut, which means we absorb almost $2 million of his prorated bonuses this year and almost $2 million next year.

It would be better IMO to hold on to him for another year unless injuries prove to be too much and cut him in 2019 when the cap savings would be $4 million.

If we cut Scandrick it won't be because of salary. His salary is reasonable.