We won't be players in FA again in my opinion

[Sydla]

You are forgetting about the concept of immediate money (signing bonus). He gets no signing bonus with that option year. It's divided over the 17-week season and he has no guarantees after his year if he were to get hurt.

He signs an extension, gets a ton of up-front, guaranteed money and insurance beyond this season. The team lowers their cap number for him this year. Everyone wins.

But, but, but........ the numbers don't lie!!!!!!

 

[big dog cowboy]

Just saw our draft picks this year 3-4th's and 3-5th's.

Actually the Cowboys only have 2 picks in the 5th round. 10 picks overall.

 

[gmoney112]

You must be from the DC board. I suspect you will quickly become one of the board's biggest nitwits.

Let's educate you on the cap and how cap figures don't necessarily reflect what one makes in a given season.

For the 2018 cap, Zach Martin actually counts against the cap for $9.3MM given the Cowboys picked up his option year.

In giving him a new deal, they could structure the contract so as to back load the cap hits in later years when they will have even more flexibility. Therefore, it's quite possible the Cowboys will actually save against the cap by resigning Martin. Here's an example:

- Kevin Zeitler signed a 5 year, $60MM contract. Yes, it averages $12MM per year but in the first year of the contract, is cap hit was only $8.4MM. His cap hit grew to over $14MM in subsequent years.

- Trai Turner signed a 4 year, $45MM contract extension. Yes, it averages out to over $11MM per year but in the first year of his contract in 2017, the cap hit to the Panthers will only be $7.7MM.

The Raiders, however, signed both their guards and front loaded the deals giving them lower cap hits in later years. It all depends on the structure of the contract and how you account for bonuses and guaranteed money.

Here's some advice. As a new poster, you might want to tone down the insults and over the top babble and actually educate yourself before you essentially start calling people stupid.

Yeah, that cap figure also does not contain the probable raise in the cap that will come. I'd expect like another 10 mill.

So, 28 with Martin's high first year cost already figured in. Fred is a likely restructure candidate, you could easily clear about 5 conservatively. That's before any cuts like Benson/Scandrick as well , or designated post-june cuts, or dealing with Crawford's contract, but it may be best to worry about that next year.

~30+ With Martin signed. That's a good amount.

Whether you tag/sign Lawrence (i'd just get him a contract, which could work out favorably as well), with the tag you're still looking at what, like 15-20 million.

We have an epic amount of space in 2019. You can use that, we'll need to be efficient when it comes to signing our own FAs from the 2016 class, allocate more for potential QB contract but it's open.

It's more leverage than we've had in a while.

 

[gjkoeppen]

You guys really need to educate yourselves on this. It's embarrassing now.

Martin doesn't have to sign a "cowboys friendly" discounted deal for the Cowboys to get some cap relief from him in 2018.

You're the one living in some make believe world that players are going to give up huge chunks of cash to sign a new deal with the Cowboys. Players and/or their agents are to smart for that ploy these days. Players in demand aren't going to leave money on the table. That should be true in you're make believe world too.
.

 

[Sydla]

You're the one living in some make believe world that players are going to give up huge chunks of cash to sign a new deal with the Cowboys. Players and/or their agents are to smart for that ploy these days. Players in demand aren't going to leave money on the table. That should be true in you're make believe world too.
.

Except, as has been pointed out to you multiple times, Martin doesn't have to give up cash at all to sign a new deal with the Cowboys. I am actually living in the real world where what a player actually gets paid isn't the same as what a team carries on their salary cap year to year.

You really have not a single clue how contracts and the salary cap works. It's painfully obvious at this point.

 

[Aven8]

Actually the Cowboys only have 2 picks in the 5th round. 10 picks overall.

You're right. I just reread them and saw we traded our 5th for Xavier Woods last year to move up.

So now we can be players in FA! Disregard my OP!!

 

[LittleD]

Like
Foles
Bortles
Keenum

Yes...After looking at Dak spit the bit for the last half of this season I would conclude that all of your mentioned QB's outplayed
anything the Cowboys put on the field. Besides, only 1 of these Foles or Keenum will make the SB. Brady will be there and probably
win again just like last year.

 

[Sydla]

You're the one living in some make believe world that players are going to give up huge chunks of cash to sign a new deal with the Cowboys. Players and/or their agents are to smart for that ploy these days. Players in demand aren't going to leave money on the table. That should be true in you're make believe world too.
.

Here's an exercise.

Again, Kevin Zeitler signed a 5 year, $60MM deal with $31.5MM guaranteed.

Cowboys go to Martin and say, we'll give you a better deal. 5 years, $70MM with $35MM guaranteed. We will pay you $20MM at signing, with a guaranteed first year salary of $5MM giving you $25MM cash after the first year of the deal.

In terms of the cap, the hit for that contract in Year 1 would be $9MM ($5MM in guaranteed salary, $4MM in prorated bonus - $20MM in signing bonus spread over 5 years). $300K less than what his cap hit is now.

Yet he doesn't give up money or lose money or sign a cowboys friendly deal or give them a discount. He's the highest paid guard in football. And even then, the Cowboys can actually save money against the cap in Year 1 (they obviously will have to take larger cap hits in future years).

 

[gjkoeppen]

Yeah, that cap figure also does not contain the probable raise in the cap that will come. I'd expect like another 10 mill.

So, 28 with Martin's high first year cost already figured in. Fred is a likely restructure candidate, you could easily clear about 5 conservatively. That's before any cuts like Benson/Scandrick as well , or designated post-june cuts, or dealing with Crawford's contract, but it may be best to worry about that next year.

~30+ With Martin signed. That's a good amount.

Whether you tag/sign Lawrence (i'd just get him a contract, which could work out favorably as well), with the tag you're still looking at what, like 15-20 million.

We have an epic amount of space in 2019. You can use that, we'll need to be efficient when it comes to signing our own FAs from the 2016 class, allocate more for potential QB contract but it's open.

It's more leverage than we've had in a while.

Here's what the fans that are wannabe GM's or capologist don't know. Unlike them the teams have a pretty good idea of what exactly the cap number is for every year of the years in the TV contracts. That's something the wannabe's don't know so much of what a team does is predicated on KNOWING what they'll have to work with each year and in the future. With the recent trend the past couple of seasons, especially this season with the viewership down and if that continues it's doubtful the NFL will get the same revenue from the new TV contracts because of the viewership being down. Again if it was so easy to be a capologist why are any of the fans that want to be one haven't been swooped up by some team. Why, because it's a heck of a lot harder than the wannabe's think it is.
.

 

[cern]

Hi cern. You're one of the few I recognize from the Cowboys site. Hope things are well.
.

thanks. outstanding. I see the zoners have their own opinions, too. and just like the former dc.com guys, some good, others not so much. same snarkiness and gnarliness remain. any idea where the others have gone? I was given some web sites to check out, but the forum died before being able to act on anything.

 

[cern]

Here's an exercise.

Again, Kevin Zeitler signed a 5 year, $60MM deal with $31.5MM guaranteed.

Cowboys go to Martin and say, we'll give you a better deal. 5 years, $70MM with $35MM guaranteed. We will pay you $20MM at signing, with a guaranteed first year salary of $5MM giving you $25MM cash after the first year of the deal.

In terms of the cap, the hit for that contract in Year 1 would be $9MM ($5MM in guaranteed salary, $4MM in prorated bonus - $20MM in signing bonus spread over 5 years). $300K less than what his cap hit is now.

Yet he doesn't give up money or lose money or sign a cowboys friendly deal or give them a discount. He's the highest paid guard in football. And even then, the Cowboys can actually save money against the cap in Year 1 (they obviously will have to take larger cap hits in future years).

an imaginary exercise. not necessarily one cloaked in reality. but if it's as easy as you make it out to be, i'm sure the cowboys will just go out and do it.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Think you just hit on the issue regard Hitchen......he and Jaylon both at MLB. We KNOW Jerry and Stephen are excited about Jaylon's 2018 season. We have not heard or seen anything to suggest he will move outside. So my guess as of today Jaylon has 2018 MLBer spot lockdown IMO. Hitch value comes in he can play ALL three position very well but can he start over Jaylon, Lewis or Lee. He lost snaps to Jaylon at the start of the season until they realize he wasn't ready. Then, of course, Jaylon was benched in favor of Hitch. So to be honest, we are not sure Hitch wanna come back. His position could very well be the same Brice Butler ( bless his soul lol), if he's not coming back it can't start. Can they guarantee him that? I'm not sure but I doubt they are willing to pay him starting $$$$ on the high end if they can't. This is why Stephen wouldn't give the commitment of his return during a recent interview. Only saying we want him back and going to do everything we can. No question IMO, he saying at the right price, which could totally from what he means to let's say Browns or Commanders. In fact, I'm guessing Hitchen situation could be one where both parties agree its best he move on.

But the FO need be careful.........we finish the 8th in total defense. That pretty damn good and since Hitchen led the team in tackles, he was a big part that. So if we're not bringing him back, we better know who we're getting his tackles from.

 

[Aven8]

But the FO need be careful.........we finish the 8th in total defense. That pretty damn good and since Hitchen led the team in tackles, he was a big part that. So if we're not bringing him back, we better know who we're getting his tackles from.

Jaylon that's who. Remember he led the team in tackles early on. Unfortunately the RB or WR was 20 yards down field when he made those tackles, but the important thing is he made those tackles!

 

[Sydla]

an imaginary exercise. not necessarily one cloaked in reality. but if it's as easy as you make it out to be, i'm sure the cowboys will just go out and do it.

How it is not reality? It's pretty close to what the Browns ACTUALLY DID with Zeitler's contract. They gave him a big signing bonus, a lower first year salary, and took a smaller cap hit in year 1, with increasing cap hits in subsequent years. Zeitler walked with $18MM in cash his first year despite the fact the Browns only took a $8.4MM cap hit in Year 1.

The Panthers did the same thing with Trai Turner, giving him a larger signing bonus, lower first year salary and smaller cap hit in Year 1 with larger cap hits in later years.

Are you guys really this obtuse about how this stuff works?

 

[Sydla]

But the FO need be careful.........we finish the 8th in total defense. That pretty damn good and since Hitchen led the team in tackles, he was a big part that. So if we're not bringing him back, we better know who we're getting his tackles from.

I feel this is going to be a real trend these next few months........... thinking this defense is a legit top flight defense because they finished 8th in total yards. They weren't that good and if you look at most of the other stats - points per game, points per drive, yards per drive, etc. - the Cowboys were a decidedly mediocre defense.

 

[viman96]

Here's what the fans that are wannabe GM's or capologist don't know. Unlike them the teams have a pretty good idea of what exactly the cap number is for every year of the years in the TV contracts. That's something the wannabe's don't know so much of what a team does is predicated on KNOWING what they'll have to work with each year and in the future. With the recent trend the past couple of seasons, especially this season with the viewership down and if that continues it's doubtful the NFL will get the same revenue from the new TV contracts because of the viewership being down. Again if it was so easy to be a capologist why are any of the fans that want to be one haven't been swooped up by some team. Why, because it's a heck of a lot harder than the wannabe's think it is.
.

There are a couple of "fans" here that definitely know how the cap works. Media has reached out to them to explain how the cap works and or verify their numbers prior to publishing their article(s).

 

[cern]

I can't decide whether that trade, or the Joey Galloway trade, was the single most idiotic trade ever made! At least Galloway was worthy of a 1st round (but not 2 1st round picks) and was derailed here by injury. Roy was never worthy of a 1st round even coming out of college. He succeeded at UT due to his size, not his route running skills. He was kind of a Dez Bryant, but not near as good.

because of the salary cap and the inability to keep great players, draft picks are now valued like gold. if you get a great player and his option year, it now becomes your best chance of having something special without paying thru the roof. Russell Wilson gets his new deal and the seahawks start losing players. calvin Johnson's deal killed the lions a few years ago. it's just the new reality of the nfl.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Here's an exercise.

Again, Kevin Zeitler signed a 5 year, $60MM deal with $31.5MM guaranteed.

Cowboys go to Martin and say, we'll give you a better deal. 5 years, $70MM with $35MM guaranteed. We will pay you $20MM at signing, with a guaranteed first year salary of $5MM giving you $25MM cash after the first year of the deal.

In terms of the cap, the hit for that contract in Year 1 would be $9MM ($5MM in guaranteed salary, $4MM in prorated bonus - $20MM in signing bonus spread over 5 years). $300K less than what his cap hit is now.

Yet he doesn't give up money or lose money or sign a cowboys friendly deal or give them a discount. He's the highest paid guard in football. And even then, the Cowboys can actually save money against the cap in Year 1 (they obviously will have to take larger cap hits in future years).

Or he can say I'll play for the option of 9. something mil and then get a 5 year 75 mil contract with a 35 mil signing bonus getting more guaranteed money starting the first year and over the option year and the new contract making more than doing your deal. Again player and/or their agents aren't going to leave money on the table for a player who will be in very high demand. You just don't get players who are All Pros EVERY YEAR CHEAP!!! Only in you're fantasy world.
.

 

[gjkoeppen]

There are a couple of "fans" here that definitely know how the cap works. Media has reached out to them to explain how the cap works and or verify their numbers prior to publishing their article(s).

The numbers that the different media have published are GUESSES. The NFL doesn't publish in advance what each year's cap number is until just before the end of the current season. Everything beyond that is just a guess.
.

 

[Vanilla2]

I like Hitchens...thought he handled business well...hope we can keep him.
Id still draft 2 or 3 LBs regardless of what happens...improve the LBing corps...like they did last yr with CBs.
Id resign Cooper....and still look for a quality OG in the draft....lett'em duke it out in camp.
I like how they are building thru the draft.
When they do venture into f/a....make "smarter buys" than last year.Nothing wrong with bargin shopping...just read the labels closer.

+1000