JJT: Philadelphia's Success Puts Spotlight on Jason Garrett

[Alexander]

Zimmer got to the NFC championship. Then lost to another very good defense...one that beat ATL singlehandedly and that beat the Vikings on a 50 yard pick-six and a strip sack fumble on succeeding series. Because....great defense is a tremendous advantage when you're playing playoff football.

Wait. I take it all back. You are just so right. I cannot believe I didn't see it.

That great defense helped Jacksonville too.

Eureka.

 

[MarkP88]

Jason Garrett cannot fail, he can only be failed.

 

[Idgit]

I thought Garrett was "building the team"? No?

Say it ain't so

He's (helped) build a capable team. Remember, I don't consider seasons like 2014 and 2016 to be 'mediocre failures' or whatever the talking point is.

What he hasn't obviously built is a team capable of advancing in the playoffs. And we've squandered chances to do that as an organization by making unnecessarily risky picks of defenders and by spending enormous resources unnecessarily on things like running backs when the defense has needed attention. Some of that is on Jason. Most of it, though, I put on the organization as a whole, or on the Joneses, above him.

Either way, the team we've got right now can win in the NFC if we improve the talent on defense. Adding a defender or two with the draft capital we had at #4 overall might have even gotten us over the hump last year. Or we could have kept Elliott and used the #34 on a defender who would have actually been on the field and maybe that guy makes a play or three v. GB to get us through. I wouldn't have taken much.

Yet you guys keep making excuses for that underperforming unit for some reason. I don't get it.

 

[Idgit]

Wait. I take it all back. You are just so right. I cannot believe I didn't see it.

That great defense helped Jacksonville too.

Eureka.

Lol! Now we're pretending great defenses actually hurt the four teams in last weekend's championship games? How good was the PHI defense again? On a points/defensive series basis, the four teams playing last Sunday ranked 1 (MIN), 2 (JAX), 4 (PHI), and 6 (NE).

I can't believe you don't see it, either. Eureka is right.

 

[Sydla]

Then how do you explain going 13-3 last year with a rookie qb and rookie rb? Do you think the Philly game even mattered to the players? Most people here didn’t even want them to win and now you’re complaining they barely beat the back ups?

LOL what?

One has nothing to do with the other. The win was meaningless from a season and long term standpoint but it also doesn't change the fact that even in trying to win that game, their offense was dreadful against backups.

 

[Idgit]

That's always been a thing.

When the team is playing well, they want Garrett to get credit for building this roster. When things go south, they want to absolve Garrett because the defense isn't talented enough. Can't blame Garrett for the defense's shortcomings they'll tell you.

It *has* always been a thing. Where you're wrong is that the coach and the organization get credit for what they do well, as they should. And they're held responsible for the things they mess up. It's just that most of you guys can't tell the difference between which is which.

What's at question, though, isn't whether or not Garrett and Co are responsible for not addressing defense sufficiently. They are, and that's said in just about every one of these threads. The question is 'what's the best thing to do about it.' That's where I'm always saying 'let's go ahead and upgrade the defensive talent, because this team is close.' And where most posters are saying 'let's start over with a new guy and a new system because Garrett's already had long enough.'

I think the latter argument underestimates how hard it is to have the highest level of success in an organization dominated by Jerry Jones.

 

[Clove]

Blame goes on Jerry Jones first, followed closely by the underachieving Jason Garrett. Jerry Jones hires a maladroit, this incompetent fool can't coach, thus the dual blame.

 

[Sydla]

It *has* always been a thing. Where you're wrong is that the coach and the organization get credit for what they do well, as they should. And they're held responsible for the things they mess up. It's just that most of you guys can't tell the difference between which is which.

What's at question, though, isn't whether or not Garrett and Co are responsible for not addressing defense sufficiently. They are, and that's said in just about every one of these threads. The question is 'what's the best thing to do about it.' That's where I'm always saying 'let's go ahead and upgrade the defensive talent, because this team is close.' And where most posters are saying 'let's start over with a new guy and a new system because Garrett's already had long enough.'

I think the latter argument underestimates how hard it is to have the highest level of success in an organization dominated by Jerry Jones.

Actually we can.

Any defensive shortcomings can't be used to absolve Garrett. It's just that simple.

 

[Idgit]

Actually we can.

Any defensive shortcomings can't be used to absolve Garrett. It's just that simple.

From where I'm sitting, he doesn't need absolution. He needs better defenders. Also pretty simple.

 

[Sydla]

Blame goes on Jerry Jones first, followed closely by the underachieving Jason Garrett. Jerry Jones hires a maladroit, this incompetent fool can't coach, thus the dual blame.

It's like walking down the street and you trip and fall and land in horse crap. You get up, clean yourself up as best you can, take two more steps and slip and fall into a pile of dog crap.

 

[Clove]

It's like walking down the street and you trip and fall and land in horse crap. You get up, clean yourself up as best you can, take two more steps and slip and fall into a pile of dog crap.

 

[Sydla]

From where I'm sitting, he doesn't need absolution. He needs better defenders. Also pretty simple.

Which is you absolving him. Can't judge the poor guy because he doesn't have enough good players on defense.

 

[Stash]

Ah, so McClay gets the credit for all the good but not the bad? Or is Jerry still making the decisions. I think it’s pretty common knowledge Garrett isn’t running the draft.

There’s no doubt he goes along with whatever he’s told otherwise he wouldn’t be the HC and that’s exactly why we’ll never get a real head coach as long as Jerry is still breathing.

So your answer is complicit then. Ok. I don’t dispute that at all. But that only further supports the fact that he’s part of the problem, not part of the solution.

 

[Tangle_Foot]

Stop it Spin Doctors. A storied franchise with the success of Tom Landry and Jimmy Johnson, does not need the success of a rival to act as a catalyst. The light has been shining looking for success for some time now, only to find the shadows that have been cast by Jerry Jones and Jason Garrett.

 

[JustChip]

I noticed he doesn’t mention the lack of depth the Cowboys have which has nothing to do with JG. He doesn’t mention they have a GM that goes out and makes great FA pick ups. He doesn’t mention that Jerry and Co let an entire veteran secondary walk. He doesn’t mention that the Eagles have a pretty quality veteran qb as a back up, not Brandon Weeden. The list goes on and on.

JG definitely deserves some blame but Jerry and Co deserve the most IMO. The one constant over the past 20+ years of mediocrity and misery has been Jerry Jones.

Agreed 100%!!! JG certainly should be criticized and held accountable, and I don't have an issue if he's fired after next year if the team misses the playoffs. But here's the $64,000 question - is ANYBODY on this board even remotely confident that Hog Jowls will hire a better coach? I don't. Most likely we'll be singing the famous lyrics from Won't Get Fooled Again - "Yeaaah! Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss." Or maybe even worse.

 

[Idgit]

Which is you absolving him. Can't judge the poor guy because he doesn't have enough good players on defense.

It's not. We can most definitely judge the poor guy. Judgement is 'he's doing an ok job as evidenced by the recent 12 and 13 win seasons and #1 playoff seeding, but the team is till falling short, largely because the passing game differential is getting us beat. We've had good QB play in the playoff games, but the pass defense has been bad in both.

And yet, we see threads about play calling and scheme and offensive coaches. When you show evidence that defense is actually what gets teams deep into the playoffs again this season, it gets completely ignored. Why? It's easier to blame the head coach and to convince you self that 'different' will somehow be 'better' under Jerry this time than it is to admit that the thing holding the team back all this time is actually very straightforward and very addressable.

And note again that my story hasn't budged. I've been saying this same exact thing every offseason for four years now. And I was saying in back before 2016 when everybody was dancing about the Elliott and Jaylon picks.

 

[Sydla]

Agreed 100%!!! JG certainly should be criticized and held accountable, and I don't have an issue if he's fired after next year if the team misses the playoffs. But here's the $64,000 question - is ANYBODY on this board even remotely confident that Hog Jowls will hire a better coach? I don't. Most likely we'll be singing the famous lyrics from Won't Get Fooled Again - "Yeaaah! Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss." Or maybe even worse.

Confident? Nope.

But maybe get lucky? Sure.

I'd rather take the chance at this point than continue down this path of mediocrity we are on now.

 

[Sydla]

It's not. We can most definitely judge the poor guy. Judgement is 'he's doing an ok job as evidenced by the recent 12 and 13 win seasons and #1 playoff seeding, but the team is till falling short, largely because the passing game differential is getting us beat. We've had good QB play in the playoff games, but the pass defense has been bad in both.

And yet, we see threads about play calling and scheme and offensive coaches. When you show evidence that defense is actually what gets teams deep into the playoffs again this season, it gets completely ignored. Why? It's easier to blame the head coach and to convince you self that 'different' will somehow be 'better' under Jerry this time than it is to admit that the thing holding the team back all this time is actually very straightforward and very addressable.

And note again that my story hasn't budged. I've been saying this same exact thing every offseason for four years now. And I was saying in back before 2016 when everybody was dancing about the Elliott and Jaylon picks.

The defense falls under the head coach. So there you go again, unwittingly absolving him. He can't get further because he doesn't have a defense.

And as noted above, the talent excuse will always be in play for guys like you. We could miss the next 2 years of playoffs and he get fired and you can convince yourself he's a great coach let down by a bad roster.

At some point, a great head coach shows himself to be a great head coach even with some roster shortcomings. Garrett has never, ever done that. He's ascended to 12 and 13 win seasons largely on teams that have just about everything go their way. First sign of real issues where coaching is at a premium? Yeah, the results slide back to typical mediocrity or worse.

 

[aria]

LOL what?

One has nothing to do with the other. The win was meaningless from a season and long term standpoint but it also doesn't change the fact that even in trying to win that game, their offense was dreadful against backups.

First off way to dodge my first question. You make things up about me, I call you out, and you ignore it like it never happened. Good job.

If you don’t think player motivation and game prep doesn’t play a role in an outcome of a game then you’ve obviously never played any type of organized sport. One absolutely has to do with the other. If the playoffs were on the line I’m sure the outcome would be much different.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Look, I will never defend Jason Garrett after his gutless approach to the 2016 season. He should be fired immediately.

Having said that, once again, you can never ever compare him to another coach in the league. Pederson doesn't have a lunatic owner and his chubby son running roughshod over the front office and locker room. He's not neutered.

So if Jerry wants to wonder how this happened he can start by looking at himself.

I have to agree with you here although I defended Garrett before I no longer can be that guy...... Jerry is Jerry no debate here